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Manwon Lender

Do some Magicians have supernatural powers

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DieChecker
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

So how can you be certain that they are 'bad' people? 

The typical Christian way. By observing the "fruit" that results. If we're still talking magic practitioners? 

I'm not a big believer in Prosperity Theology, but to a degree, the expectation is bad people will often be involved in bad actions/results. 

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jethrofloyd

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Xeno-Fish
1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

The typical Christian way. By observing the "fruit" that results. If we're still talking magic practitioners? 

I'm not a big believer in Prosperity Theology, but to a degree, the expectation is bad people will often be involved in bad actions/results. 

Person A prays.

Person B cast a spell.

Both have the same intention and get the same outcome, which one of them is the bad person? 

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DieChecker
12 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Person A prays.

Person B cast a spell.

Both have the same intention and get the same outcome, which one of them is the bad person? 

Neither, either, or both. Depends on the intent. "Bad person" though is subjective. Id not call a "sinner" a bad person. Id call them normal. Praying to harm someone, or casting a spell to harm someone, with strong intent/emotion could count as being a bad person, i guess. But, IMHO, a bad person is a lifestyle, not individual actions. Praying/spellcasting (Cursing?) to harm as a regular part of one's life probably would count as a bad person.

Some say you can't pray for bad things, and have them happen, but that's simply not true. All energy is effectively controlled by, and originates from, God. This energy can be abused just as physical substances can be abused. People can absolutely pray and make evil/bad things happen.

Edited by DieChecker

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Xeno-Fish
2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Neither, either, or both. Depends on the intent. "Bad person" though is subjective. Id not call a "sinner" a bad person. Id call them normal. Praying to harm someone, or casting a spell to harm someone, with strong intent/emotion could count as being a bad person, i guess. But, IMHO, a bad person is a lifestyle, not individual actions. Praying/spellcasting (Cursing?) to harm as a regular part of one's life probably would count as a bad person.

Some say you can't pray for bad things, and have them happen, but that's simply not true. All energy is effectively controlled by, and originates from, God. This energy can be abused just as physical substances can be abused. People can absolutely pray and make evil/bad things happen.

Isn't all of this just your opinion though. That's the thing about words. Tell a lie - spread the rumor - ruin a life. 

Words can implant all sorts of ideas in people's heads. Spells and prayers for/against people are more effective if the other person knows it. They are more effective for oneself if no one knows it. 

If we go by your standard, the "curse" cast upon people by Christianity is "sin". Which sows the seed of guilty by birth. This concept can affect a person to various degrees of negativity. Where the only cure to this memetic curse is a Jesus placebo. 

I mentioned before that Christianity was a system of magick. It is. Prayer is just a form of spellcasting. The cross and fish are sigils which are bound to a meaning. 

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DieChecker
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Isn't all of this just your opinion though. That's the thing about words. Tell a lie - spread the rumor - ruin a life. 

You're right, it is mainly my opinion. I don't believe religion is alone in saying ruinous things, correct, or false, about people. That's human nature IMHO. 

Good and bad are culture driven. Marrying a child, for example, can be good in one culture, and bad in another.

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If we go by your standard, the "curse" cast upon people by Christianity is "sin". Which sows the seed of guilty by birth. This concept can affect a person to various degrees of negativity. Where the only cure to this memetic curse is a Jesus placebo. 

I'd disagree in that sin isn't cast/prayed onto people. Either they sinned, or they didn't. Myself, i don't believe in Original Sin, other then that we are all sinners and imperfect.

Jesus' sacrifice is the vaccine for sin, and Repenting of new sins is taking your vitamins and eating right. To use another analogy...

Quote

I mentioned before that Christianity was a system of magick. It is. Prayer is just a form of spellcasting. The cross and fish are sigils which are bound to a meaning.

Yeah, as far as that goes, I agree. Prayers are simply directed at God, rather then trying to create an effect by way of arcane means.

The icons of Christianity, IMHO, aren't sigils, or used to produce a effect, but are foci, for concentrating while praying. Often people hold a cross or Bible when praying. I dont believe it affects anything, but some do. And to paraphrase Apostle Paul, we should do what seems to bring us closer to God.

Praying is a form of magic, but supposedly it has divine oversight. :innocent:

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Xeno-Fish
3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I'd disagree in that sin isn't cast/prayed onto people. Either they sinned, or they didn't. Myself, i don't believe in Original Sin, other then that we are all sinners and imperfect.

Jesus' sacrifice is the vaccine for sin, and Repenting of new sins is taking your vitamins and eating right. To use another analogy...

Yeah, as far as that goes, I agree. Prayers are simply directed at God, rather then trying to create an effect by way of arcane means.

The icons of Christianity, IMHO, aren't sigils, or used to produce a effect, but are foci, for concentrating while praying. Often people hold a cross or Bible when praying. I dont believe it affects anything, but some do. And to paraphrase Apostle Paul, we should do what seems to bring us closer to God.

Praying is a form of magic, but supposedly it has divine oversight. :innocent:

The concept of sin is just an idea presented by specifically your ideology. Yet you are only operating within your paradigm. So to you sin is real, to everyone else it isn't. Prayer is also petitioning your patron deity for favor. Praying for sick old Aunt Sally is asking god for favor. Praying for some miserable fool you met on the internet is also asking god for favor. You do agree that prayer is a magical act. 

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Desertrat56
On 9/24/2020 at 5:57 AM, XenoFish said:

Magick is about changing consciousness. So yes. In fact magick is so mundane that simple words on a screen can be used to do it. 

The media does it everyday with their "programming" and it has been that way since radio and television became something everyone had in their living room.

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Xeno-Fish
2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

The media does it everyday with their "programming" and it has been that way since radio and television became something everyone had in their living room.

Pretty much. They even did test back in the 50's or 60's I think we finding out what colors attracted people's attention and did some subliminal advertisement testing. If you detach yourself mentally from all the stuff going on, you can see the effects of this social magick. It's a frustrating sight to see. 

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