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OverSword

Man killed during attack on ICE facility

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OverSword

So I’m not linking to a story because I’m on my phone and will relate what I just saw on the news. An armed man was just killed while throwing Molotov cocktails at an ICE facility in Tacoma, WA. This is obviously a disturbed individual.

I’m wondering how much blame for this type of thing the press shares. After all aren’t the press being very partisan and demonizing ICE for doing nothing more than enforcing laws enacted by Congress? Laws that now one side of the political parties are using as their main weapon to attack the office of the president? The laughable part of course is that deportation rates occur at lower rates than they did under his predecessor, a member of the ones so outraged.

 

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Gromdor

The guy was 69 years old too.  It's not like he was a young naive hot-head.  Not so sure the press is to blame.  Even if they didn't show those pictures of all the migrant kids in terrible conditions, groups like his would have found out and possibly even more incensed by the fact that everyone was hiding it.  Kinda like Greenpeace always knows about the whaling and where it is at, for example.

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and then

Van Spronsen apparently was an activist deeply involved in this issue for a while now.  From what I read of this, his was a case of suicide by cop.  He left them no choice.  I believe the media are to blame for nearly every incident like this.  They stoke the fires in every way possible and characterize every act of this president as negative to as great an extent as they can twist it to be.  I also hope that a time will come when it will be THEY who have to worry about reaping the whirlwind.

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, and then said:

Van Spronsen apparently was an activist deeply involved in this issue for a while now.  From what I read of this, his was a case of suicide by cop.  He left them no choice.  I believe the media are to blame for nearly every incident like this.  They stoke the fires in every way possible and characterize every act of this president as negative to as great an extent as they can twist it to be.  I also hope that a time will come when it will be THEY who have to worry about reaping the whirlwind.

So you are saying the media should not report things that might make Americans go second amendment on the government?  I have an idea.  Maybe the government shouldn't do things that make the citizens take up arms and act?

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ExpandMyMind
29 minutes ago, OverSword said:

demonizing ICE for doing nothing more than enforcing laws enacted by Congress?

Not that this guy's actions were in any way acceptable, but one of the problems with ICE is that they attract vile, racist thugs. They behave worse than prison guards, with less of a chance they will be reprimanded or punished in any way. 

Journalists have a duty to report on the topic, warts an' all.

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Not that this guy's actions were in any way acceptable, but one of the problems with ICE is that they attract vile, racist thugs. They behave worse than prison guards, with less of a chance they will be reprimanded or punished in any way. 

Journalists have a duty to report on the topic, warts an' all.

And they are currently leaderless. With revolving door management, policies aren't set in stone and the workers do what they want. 

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OverSword
18 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

So you are saying the media should not report things that might make Americans go second amendment on the government?  I have an idea.  Maybe the government shouldn't do things that make the citizens take up arms and act?

I don’t see it like that. How much coverage did this government agency get for doing their job before trump was president? Never even heard of them except on Chechen and Chong’s up in smoke when they reported themselves to La Migra to get a free lunch and strip to Mexico for a wedding.

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OverSword
15 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Not that this guy's actions were in any way acceptable, but one of the problems with ICE is that they attract vile, racist thugs. They behave worse than prison guards, with less of a chance they will be reprimanded or punished in any way. 

Journalists have a duty to report on the topic, warts an' all.

Oh sure. An immigrant without a black eye is just unheard of. Dude get real. Thugs. For crying out loud.

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

I don’t see it like that. How much coverage did this government agency get for doing their job before trump was president? Never even heard of them except on Chechen and Chong’s up in smoke when they reported themselves to La Migra to get a free lunch and strip to Mexico for a wedding.

Back then they were doing the job right.  More deportations, better and more humane conditions, competent and consistent policies and management. 

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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So I’m not linking to a story because I’m on my phone and will relate what I just saw on the news. An armed man was just killed while throwing Molotov cocktails at an ICE facility in Tacoma, WA. This is obviously a disturbed individual.

I’m wondering how much blame for this type of thing the press shares. After all aren’t the press being very partisan and demonizing ICE for doing nothing more than enforcing laws enacted by Congress? Laws that now one side of the political parties are using as their main weapon to attack the office of the president? The laughable part of course is that deportation rates occur at lower rates than they did under his predecessor, a member of the ones so outraged.

 

The individual is ultimately responsible for his/her actions.  However for guillible and ignorant people the press/media are manipulating their stories.  All have a bias but I don't see how you could hold them responsible without tromping on the amendment that gives us the right of free speech.

P.S.  If you held the press responsible you would also have to hold his physican responsible for any drugs that were prescribed that could cause this kind of behaviour.  What would that do to the country?  Pharmacuetical companies could be sued for selling drugs that kill people or drive people to kill others or themselves and doctors prescribing those drugs could be sued as well.  It is a nice pipe dream but not ever going to happen.

Edited by Desertrat56
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OverSword
Just now, Gromdor said:

Back then they were doing the job right.  More deportations, better and more humane conditions, competent and consistent policies and management. 

Competent and consistent? You mean not enforcing laws at the order of the high office. For years many Americans begged the executive office to enforce immigration laws and now they cry because it’s finally being done.

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Competent and consistent? You mean not enforcing laws at the order of the high office. For years many Americans begged the executive office to enforce immigration laws and now they cry because it’s finally being done.

Who did the begging? 

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Gromdor
Just now, OverSword said:

Competent and consistent? You mean not enforcing laws at the order of the high office. For years many Americans begged the executive office to enforce immigration laws and now they cry because it’s finally being done.

Take this latest, very publicized raid for example.  Money spent, guys in the field, details leaked by the guys on the ground, acting head has no clue of the details, and little to no apprehensions.

I'm not seeing how the laws are being done.  If anything Trump is doing a worse job than Obama ever did, spending more money on it, and the only thing he has to show for it is children in cages with no beds, tooth brushes or showers for weeks. (which is breaking a law, btw). 

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Who did the begging? 

There was a large call for it during the last administration had a conflict with the state of Arizona. It was a huge issue.

Edited by OverSword
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Michelle
23 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Not that this guy's actions were in any way acceptable, but one of the problems with ICE is that they attract vile, racist thugs. They behave worse than prison guards, with less of a chance they will be reprimanded or punished in any way. 

Journalists have a duty to report on the topic, warts an' all.

Oh yeah?

 

I asked Latinos why they joined immigration law enforcement. Now I'm urging them to leave.

Latinos make up half of American Border Patrol agents. But it's not self-hatred driving them to work for agencies deporting their communities.

I spent all of 2015 interviewing and observing Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents across Arizona, California and Texas. My goal: to understand how the once predominantly white institution of immigration law enforcement, established and maintained historically as a tool of white supremacy, had come to be disproportionately made up of Latinos. In fact, Latinos make up more than 50% of Border Patrol agents and 24% of ICE agents, the most recent publicly available numbers I found. 

I wanted to understand what possesses Latinos to work for agencies that round up or deport neighbors and family members from the very communities they call home. How do Latinos do this to their own people, I asked. Is it self-hatred? A denial of ethnic identity? Or do they think that being party to the state’s exclusionary machinery cements, in a way, their own individual claims to belonging as Americans — to whiteness?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/07/03/latino-border-patrol-ice-agents-immigration-column/1619511001/

https://psmag.com/social-justice/what-latinx-ice-and-border-patrol-agents-say-about-arresting-immigrants

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Michelle
5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah

Most jail guards are corrupt so I guess you were one of them. You are going to have a percentage of people like that in any group.

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aztek

no secret why they go there, it is a good job, good money benefits and privileges. that is all.

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ExpandMyMind
South Alabam
14 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

This is what I was referring to.

That truly is disgusting. When you have the head of a Department that was known to be a one time member I would get rid of that person, fire all those in the group, and possibly refer them for criminal prosecution. There would be a shake down at ICE. This is the same thing that needs done at prisons, Sheriff departments, Police districts, and ANY law enforcement Agency within the United States. I have said it before: You cannot allow bias within the Judicial system of the United States. Racism is bias.

When an Officers word is ALWAYS taken over anyone he is trying to prosecute at trial, and he is known to have uttered racist words, belonged to vile racist groups, or shown racist actions, why is he an Officer and why should his word be trustworthy just because he wears a badge?

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aztek
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

That truly is disgusting. When you have the head of a Department that was known to be a one time member I would get rid of that person, fire all those in the group, and possibly refer them for criminal prosecution. There would be a shake down at ICE. This is the same thing that needs done at prisons, Sheriff departments, Police districts, and ANY law enforcement Agency within the United States. I have said it before: You cannot allow bias within the Judicial system of the United States. Racism is bias.

When an Officers word is ALWAYS taken over anyone he is trying to prosecute at trial, and he is known to have uttered racist words, belonged to vile racist groups, or shown racist actions, why is he an Officer and why should his word be trustworthy just because he wears a badge?

because they are officers, aka  same elite group of people who run courts, cops are their people, thus they will always take their word over yours,  no secret really. they could not care less of their bias, the court is not there to seek justice, but to assign fault and prosecute.  

Edited by aztek
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Desertrat56
3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Take this latest, very publicized raid for example.  Money spent, guys in the field, details leaked by the guys on the ground, acting head has no clue of the details, and little to no apprehensions.

I'm not seeing how the laws are being done.  If anything Trump is doing a worse job than Obama ever did, spending more money on it, and the only thing he has to show for it is children in cages with no beds, tooth brushes or showers for weeks. (which is breaking a law, btw). 

No, he has jobs for his daughter and son-in-law.  And he has a mansion rent free.  He doesn't care about anyone else.

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Piney
3 hours ago, Michelle said:

Most jail guards are corrupt

Holy **** we are actually going to disagree!!! :lol:

In my experience there was only a few turds in the herd. Most that I dealt with were by the book. Many even caring. 

The  SOG (SWAT) guys on the other hand are given props to be brutal and only the most brutal ones are picked.

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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Piney said:

Holy **** we are actually going to disagree!!! :lol:

In my experience there was only a few turds in the herd. Most that I dealt with were by the book. Many even caring. 

The  SOG (SWAT) guys on the other hand are given props to be brutal and only the most brutal ones are picked.

My ex was an MP prison guard, first at Coleman barracks in Germany, then at Ft. Levenworth.  They were not allowed to call the prisoners names at Coleman barracks but when we moved to Kansas he came home one day and told me some story that stared out "today the maggots did...."  And I jumped all over him (verbally) about it.  I even reminded him that if some corrupt, lazy cop had not taken him under his wing he could very well have ended up as one of the "maggots"  When he got out of the army he was a small town cop until the judge he had dirt on retired, then he quit and became a private investigator.  He is typical of 80 % of the people who dream of being a cop. 

Most of them don't pass the psyche test so they get jobs in small towns or as security guards or prison guards.  Unless they get on in a big city that has a corrupt police chief like the one in Dallas that got fired in 2007 or 2008 and a few that have worked in Albuquerque until recently.

Edited by Desertrat56
clarity
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