Spiritual or science

[Tatetopa]

On 7/16/2019 at 11:20 AM, God Lover said:

No I was alone my family went on a cruise and I stayed home for my law school

I'll tell you a story.   .  

I think this is an illustration from a Malcolm Gladwell book called Blink.  By the way I recommend  reading one of his books or catching a podcast.

The story goes that there was a grand prix race driver who for some unexplained reason applied his brakes sharply near  a blind turn.  Around the corner out of his line of sight a collision had occurred which he was able to avoid. 

When interviewed, at first he said he had no idea why he did that, the press story that he was psychic or something.  Then after thinking about it a bit more he said, "There was one unusual thing I remember now.  When I was coming up the straight away, nobody was looking at me, the crowd was looking up the track."

It was a subtle cue that did not interrupt his conscious thought at the time, but caused him to respond.

I like that story a lot because something similar happened to me.

 I heard a voice tell me to do something while I was walking to work on a nice summer morning.  I was about to turn at my usual place when a voice in my head told me very insistently  to "GO straight."  It wasn't really a voice but it was a thought that interrupted my conscious flow of thinking about what I would do first when I got to work.  It was so insistent that I did.   Seconds later a pickup truck, out of control, crashed into the pole on the corner and sent a pile of pallets tumbling over.

I would have been right in the path of that pickup if I had turned.  Miracle save?  Some people would think so.

But I was never sure whether the voice came from outside or inside my brain.  You can choose to think what you want.  For me there was too much  doubt about external sources. Like the race driver, I think I caught a cue that did not register on my conscious mind.  Maybe a sound or a glimpse of peripheral vision.  So what I have come to believe is that there is a lot of information processing constantly going on in your brain.  It would overload your senses and paralyze you from action if you were constantly bombarded with that fire hose of information.  So there is a filter in there that restricts the flow to a relevant sample for your consciousness.  Occasionally, something kicks in a puts a thought into your conscious that is not related to what you are currently  thinking about.

Best of luck to you.

[danydandan]

On 16/7/2019 at 7:20 PM, God Lover said:

No I was alone my family went on a cruise and I stayed home for my law school

 

Are you training to be a lawyer?

Can I direct you to this thread:

 

[Piney]

1 hour ago, danydandan said:

Pervert!

Edit: @Piney can astral protect telepathically too. Maybe it was him?

The only things I can project with is one of my bows. 

 

[danydandan]

8 minutes ago, Piney said:

The only things I can project with is one of my bows. 

 

And your hulking sexuality I hear. 

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, danydandan said:

And your hulking sexuality I hear. 

Only with members of the Pennsylvania Ballet and the Church of Satan. 

.....and only if they like playing with Lego before and after. 

[danydandan]

3 minutes ago, Piney said:

Only with members of the Pennsylvania Ballet and the Church of Satan. 

.....and only if they like playing with Lego before and after. 

God, oh I hope that is the one organisation. Please say it is. 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

5 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

6 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I don't think the Op had the chance yet. *shrugs* 

Now, that is a question I find intriguing. Science and spiritual as considered opposite or not?   

I personally, consider there might be some similarities to some spiritual elements to science, like how there might be a physical essence and can be 'seen', if that is a better word for it, in a science outlook. But, I personally consider it, and not always a way to see it as a constant way of looking at it. In the end, I like to always consider of always researching it it in every way possible.   

Why do people consider it? Maybe, in a nutshell, science shows objective proof or outlooks, as spiritually considerations can not be. My meaning, it will never be objectively pointed out, most in subjective and personally ways. 

But again, that's how I would consider it an answer to that question. 

I think I understand what you are saying.  People have tried to prove that since the 1800's that I know of with the experiments on weighing a person dying, and weighing them after death and finding a difference.  It was an attempt to prove some non-physical or energetic element to being human that is disputed as being real.

 Yeah, I think you hit it right there. Or, something similar, but I think he pretty much explained it as I might see it. Thank you. 

Quote

For me science is not static, once we learn more we can apply it to more to understand more.  Like understanding atoms as the foundation of matter, then getting more detail and seeing there are smaller elements, or getting telescopes that give more and more detail, which provides more understanding, but we have not hit the limit yet and probably won't for hundreds or more years. 

I think when we can prove consciousness does not reside in the brain, really prove it so that it is accepted, then the exploration will more easily turn to finding ways to figure out what consciousness really is, can it be broken down in to smaller elements, is there a single source, etc.  That will remove some of the fantasies about god that make people think science is against the belief in a god or unifying force or what ever. 

•  

 I can really relate here to your thoughts on this.  I like to think that this is possible.

 I think science is a nice little tool that we can always depend on. At least, in my mind, whatever science has brought to our attention in the present can allow us to research the science results in the past and see a correlation. Well, as opposed to having history we write it self when we find out something new. I think this, because of how religious writings tend to show it’s outdated in quite a few things

Well, that’s my feeling on that.

 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

5 hours ago, danydandan said:

On 7/17/2019 at 6:58 AM, Rlyeh said:

It was me.

Pervert!

Edit: @Piney can astral protect telepathically too. Maybe it was him?

 Oh great! Now, there’s too many suspects. 

[Mr Walker]

14 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I'll tell you a story.   .  

I think this is an illustration from a Malcolm Gladwell book called Blink.  By the way I recommend  reading one of his books or catching a podcast.

The story goes that there was a grand prix race driver who for some unexplained reason applied his brakes sharply near  a blind turn.  Around the corner out of his line of sight a collision had occurred which he was able to avoid. 

When interviewed, at first he said he had no idea why he did that, the press story that he was psychic or something.  Then after thinking about it a bit more he said, "There was one unusual thing I remember now.  When I was coming up the straight away, nobody was looking at me, the crowd was looking up the track."

It was a subtle cue that did not interrupt his conscious thought at the time, but caused him to respond.

I like that story a lot because something similar happened to me.

 I heard a voice tell me to do something while I was walking to work on a nice summer morning.  I was about to turn at my usual place when a voice in my head told me very insistently  to "GO straight."  It wasn't really a voice but it was a thought that interrupted my conscious flow of thinking about what I would do first when I got to work.  It was so insistent that I did.   Seconds later a pickup truck, out of control, crashed into the pole on the corner and sent a pile of pallets tumbling over.

I would have been right in the path of that pickup if I had turned.  Miracle save?  Some people would think so.

But I was never sure whether the voice came from outside or inside my brain.  You can choose to think what you want.  For me there was too much  doubt about external sources. Like the race driver, I think I caught a cue that did not register on my conscious mind.  Maybe a sound or a glimpse of peripheral vision.  So what I have come to believe is that there is a lot of information processing constantly going on in your brain.  It would overload your senses and paralyze you from action if you were constantly bombarded with that fire hose of information.  So there is a filter in there that restricts the flow to a relevant sample for your consciousness.  Occasionally, something kicks in a puts a thought into your conscious that is not related to what you are currently  thinking about.

Best of luck to you.

FAir analysis.

Now what if this happened to you not once, but ten, twenty, or fifty times, over the years?

Would that give you cause to pause and reflect?

What if the voice gave the warning  several hours before? eg " Dont turn right at Wood st this morning, on your way to work. Go down Green st instead  There is going to be a major pile up on Wood st., right when you would be driving down it. "    

[Tatetopa]

12 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

FAir analysis.

Now what if this happened to you not once, but ten, twenty, or fifty times, over the years?

Would that give you cause to pause and reflect?

What if the voice gave the warning  several hours before? eg " Dont turn right at Wood st this morning, on your way to work. Go down Green st instead  There is going to be a major pile up on Wood st., right when you would be driving down it. " 

It has happened more than once, but my brain is slow, never more than a split second ahead of events.

[Hawkins]

On 7/16/2019 at 1:32 PM, God Lover said:

I was about to hop in the shower but I heard in a whisper Ashhhlynnnn, and I turn around to discover nothing.And so my thoughts believed that it was a fly.But was it a fly or were spirits trying to tell me something or get my attention, we will never know what do you think and believe?

They are equally possible in the sense of logic. There's no logic in denying possibilities. Actually a sane human mind can assume both simply because they both are possible. We don't assume 1 + 1 = 3 or 4 or 5 because they don't logically exist to us at the comprehension level.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Hawkins

[squadus]

Both. Numerology is a great example of this. You will have to have a firm theory of mathematics and some astrology, but it's possible to decode the meaning behind anyone's birthday based on either the date of birth or their name, aka Expression Number.

[XenoFish]

21 hours ago, squadus said:

Both. Numerology is a great example of this. You will have to have a firm theory of mathematics and some astrology, but it's possible to decode the meaning behind anyone's birthday based on either the date of birth or their name, aka Expression Number.

Jumble enough words together and you can make anything seem rational.

[+Sherapy]

On 7/18/2019 at 9:58 AM, Tatetopa said:

I'll tell you a story.   .  

I think this is an illustration from a Malcolm Gladwell book called Blink.  By the way I recommend  reading one of his books or catching a podcast.

The story goes that there was a grand prix race driver who for some unexplained reason applied his brakes sharply near  a blind turn.  Around the corner out of his line of sight a collision had occurred which he was able to avoid. 

When interviewed, at first he said he had no idea why he did that, the press story that he was psychic or something.  Then after thinking about it a bit more he said, "There was one unusual thing I remember now.  When I was coming up the straight away, nobody was looking at me, the crowd was looking up the track."

It was a subtle cue that did not interrupt his conscious thought at the time, but caused him to respond.

I like that story a lot because something similar happened to me.

 I heard a voice tell me to do something while I was walking to work on a nice summer morning.  I was about to turn at my usual place when a voice in my head told me very insistently  to "GO straight."  It wasn't really a voice but it was a thought that interrupted my conscious flow of thinking about what I would do first when I got to work.  It was so insistent that I did.   Seconds later a pickup truck, out of control, crashed into the pole on the corner and sent a pile of pallets tumbling over.

I would have been right in the path of that pickup if I had turned.  Miracle save?  Some people would think so.

But I was never sure whether the voice came from outside or inside my brain.  You can choose to think what you want.  For me there was too much  doubt about external sources. Like the race driver, I think I caught a cue that did not register on my conscious mind.  Maybe a sound or a glimpse of peripheral vision.  So what I have come to believe is that there is a lot of information processing constantly going on in your brain.  It would overload your senses and paralyze you from action if you were constantly bombarded with that fire hose of information.  So there is a filter in there that restricts the flow to a relevant sample for your consciousness.  Occasionally, something kicks in a puts a thought into your conscious that is not related to what you are currently  thinking about.

Best of luck to you.

Great story. You would like the book The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker, when I read your story he came to mind. 

He says we are wired to survive and we do pick up on cues for the environment he has a lot of stories to demonstrates what he means. The stories are very hard to read due to the violence but none the less this book makes you think.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Sherapy

[Tatetopa]

6 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Great story. You would like the book The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker, when I read your story he came to mind. 

He says we are wired to survive and we do pick up on cues for the environment he has a lot of stories to demonstrates what he means. The stories are very hard to read due to the violence but none the less this book makes you think.

Thank you.  I will look for it.

I am fascinated by the complexity of our brains and I do like to read about it.

My cell phone has functions I never use and some I don't know how to access.  How much more so are our own minds?

[Golden Duck]

10 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Great story. You would like the book The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker, when I read your story he came to mind. 

He says we are wired to survive and we do pick up on cues for the environment he has a lot of stories to demonstrates what he means. The stories are very hard to read due to the violence but none the less this book makes you think.

I've always liked this article that "used to be" on the net.

Quote

But generally professionals get it right and can forecast where to have their racquet or bat to within the few thousandths of a second necessary to swat a ball. And the rest of us learn to master the millisecond-level tolerances involved in other more mundane skills such as changing gears on a car or lifting a coffee cup to our lips without bashing our teeth.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100526175805/http://www.dichotomistic.com/mind_page_three.html

It also provides a possible explanation of why and how some players "read a game". 

[+Liquid Gardens]

On 7/19/2019 at 3:21 AM, Mr Walker said:

Now what if this happened to you not once, but ten, twenty, or fifty times, over the years?

Would that give you cause to pause and reflect?

If it happened to me fifty times I'd think I was a careless person or cursed or something.  Unless you're a base jumper or race car driver or something, having fifty times in your lifetime where you were seconds from disaster but saved by something supernatural seems kinda on the high end.  I'm pretty sure I at least haven't that many brushes with death or injury.  Seems way high for an English teacher, maybe you need to just better watch where you're going, give that poor angel a rest.  

[+Sherapy]

1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

If it happened to me fifty times I'd think I was a careless person or cursed or something.  Unless you're a base jumper or race car driver or something, having fifty times in your lifetime where you were seconds from disaster but saved by something supernatural seems kinda on the high end.  I'm pretty sure I at least haven't that many brushes with death or injury.  Seems way high for an English teacher, maybe you need to just better watch where you're going, give that poor angel a rest.  

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... 

It gives new meaning to needing faith to get out of bed. 

[Mr Walker]

8 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

If it happened to me fifty times I'd think I was a careless person or cursed or something.  Unless you're a base jumper or race car driver or something, having fifty times in your lifetime where you were seconds from disaster but saved by something supernatural seems kinda on the high end.  I'm pretty sure I at least haven't that many brushes with death or injury.  Seems way high for an English teacher, maybe you need to just better watch where you're going, give that poor angel a rest.  

The question was rhetorical' ie what if this happened to you? 

Personally, its probably been only 20-30 or so times over  my life, where this has saved my life But there are also lots of cases of the entity giving sound advice, knowledge, or warnings, on many topics 

A rough break down  of the life saving instances

 A dozen "on the road" 

( I spent at  least  20 hours a week driving  and did on average  30000 miles per year, or 600 miles per week, for  30 years of my life) 

half  dozen in sporting activities such as  motor bike scrambling,  hanggliding, sailing, surfing, water skiing, skin diving, shooting, snow sking    tobogganing,   rock climbing, abseiling,  geocaching etc

(I guess  the more one does different outdoor sports and activities the more dangers one encounters)

A few medical incidents

 A couple involving danger from people  or natural events such as bush fires

there may be more. These are just the ones i can remember easily and specifically. It certainly doesn't seem a high number given my life style and age  ie i don't feel as if i lived a dangerous or risky life 

But yes i have been very close to death several dozen times in my life I just assumed tha t was reasonably normal if one was going to live life to the full.

  eg Ive jumped/ hurdled   metre high barbed wire fences in the dark, chasing spot- lit  rabbits, while  not completely  sober mates took pot shots to make the rabbit freeze for a moment.  Iive driven a 16 foot tinny with a 40 hp motor back to shore through waves which were higher than the boat was long.  Ive been out on the deep end untangling the anchor on a net from a reef,  when an 18 foot white pointer went straight through the net, and been chased by white pointers a few times, including once while skiing.

Ive been trapped under a sail when a yacht capsized and had to nurse another yacht back to shore after its rudder was snapped off in a storm .

Ive walked, driven, and camped in,  the plains and deserts (and beaches) of Australia , often alone and dozens of miles from the nearest human being. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Mr Walker

[+DieChecker]

On 7/16/2019 at 10:32 AM, God Lover said:

I was about to hop in the shower but I heard in a whisper Ashhhlynnnn, and I turn around to discover nothing.And so my thoughts believed that it was a fly.But was it a fly or were spirits trying to tell me something or get my attention, we will never know what do you think and believe?

Could have been either. When a person hears such a thing, and is a believer, the proper thing to do is pray about it. If you get a "ping" back, it might mean something. Then pray more, or better still, get several others to pray about it. If they get multiple similar feelings, it probably is important. 

Ask a priest/pastor/minister. Ask a religious friend. 

Hopefully it is not the.neighbor and a peeking hole. 

If you hear lots of voices... possibly seek medical help.

[+DieChecker]

On 7/18/2019 at 7:44 AM, Desertrat56 said:

That assumption of people putting science to it (bad and good) is well met.  But, why do you think it might be "spiritual" and what does that word mean to you?  Why not use "paranormal"?  AND why does people consider the two are opposites?  They aren't.

I tend to agree. The two exist in parallel. A religious man need not reject physical science. And a scientific man need not dismiss the spiritual.

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

I tend to agree. The two exist in parallel. A religious man need not reject physical science. And a scientific man need not dismiss the spiritual.

I still feel there is a point where irreconcilable differences meet. 

Also... 

Science doesn't disprove a God candidate because nothing exists to disprove. As such, recognising new information, the God theory becomes a superseded theory. As such unless new information comes to support the God theory, its effectively defunct. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by psyche101

[Stubbly_Dooright]

On 8/8/2019 at 8:03 PM, Sherapy said:

On 8/8/2019 at 8:01 PM, Liquid Gardens said:

If it happened to me fifty times I'd think I was a careless person or cursed or something.  Unless you're a base jumper or race car driver or something, having fifty times in your lifetime where you were seconds from disaster but saved by something supernatural seems kinda on the high end.  I'm pretty sure I at least haven't that many brushes with death or injury.  Seems way high for an English teacher, maybe you need to just better watch where you're going, give that poor angel a rest.  

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... 

It gives new meaning to needing faith to get out of bed. 

And I thought it was the promise of a great cup of coffee, that would do the trick.   

Well that, and a will to live. 

............................ who am I trying to kid, myself? That cup of coffee is my will to live.   

[Stubbly_Dooright]

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

On 7/16/2019 at 1:32 PM, God Lover said:

I was about to hop in the shower but I heard in a whisper Ashhhlynnnn, and I turn around to discover nothing.And so my thoughts believed that it was a fly.But was it a fly or were spirits trying to tell me something or get my attention, we will never know what do you think and believe?

Could have been either. When a person hears such a thing, and is a believer, the proper thing to do is pray about it. If you get a "ping" back, it might mean something. Then pray more, or better still, get several others to pray about it. If they get multiple similar feelings, it probably is important. 

Ask a priest/pastor/minister. Ask a religious friend. 

Hopefully it is not the.neighbor and a peeking hole. 

If you hear lots of voices... possibly seek medical help.

I find that interesting. I sometimes feel a pull to ‘experiment’ spiritually in this. Especially, in what I see is the conditions the OP is in, where there is so much ‘contamination’ (water, the sounds of water running, and so forth’) that could also be the explanations to such unexplained things. 

I would think, on my own experiences of my spirituality, it would take longer to see any ‘pings’ (seriously, I like your metaphors  ) to really know. For me, more the experience, the more the understanding. 

Like I said, this is my outlook on that. 

[+Desertrat56]

2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I still feel there is a point where irreconcilable differences meet. 

Also... 

Science doesn't disprove a God candidate because nothing exists to disprove. As such, recognising new information, the God theory becomes a superseded theory. As such unless new information comes to support the God theory, its effectively defunct. 

The fact that we still have mystery in our observations of the universe means science doesn't have all, (ALL) the answers so there is still room for philosophy and belief and exploration outside of science.   Any one who thinks science has proven god does not exist or that there is not a creator force is not a true scientist.  No real scientist would ever think we have proven beyond a doubt how Everthing works/interacts/ came about. I don't beleive in the judgemental, lazy punishing god that the judaic religions believe in, but I also can't accept that there is not some uniting force in the universe, most likely it is not some overseer or meddler, most likely it is beyond that and we are just tiny cells in the whole of the universe.  But that is my conclusion based on my experiences.  I am not going to ever try to convince someone else that it is TRUE, because there is no truth when god vs science is debated.