Spiritual or science

[+DieChecker]

8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What if it's not God? 

 

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Without any evidence for God's existence, we don't. It's all a guess. 

That's a very real issue. One measure is if it is damaging to you, then it is an Enemy.

Like I posted originally, if you hear something, pray about it, then turn to friends, family, and religious leadership. If all that checks out... then consider that you did hear God.

Given, in many situations, such as Hammer shared, you have moments to act. And in those moments, you either trust that Voice, or you dont.

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

God is right there, all people have to do is look.

This leads to confirmation bias. 

[+DieChecker]

Just now, XenoFish said:

This leads to confirmation bias. 

True, but if everyone you know is also confirming it....

[XenoFish]

Just now, DieChecker said:

 

That's a very real issue. One measure is if it is damaging to you, then it is an Enemy.

Like I posted originally, if you hear something, pray about it, then turn to friends, family, and religious leadership. If all that checks out... then consider that you did hear God.

Given, in many situations, such as Hammer shared, you have moments to act. And in those moments, you either trust that Voice, or you dont.

Once again all of that lead to confirmation bias and perhaps magical thinking. If I heard god I'd go see my doctor. I'd probably have a few screws loose.

[XenoFish]

Just now, DieChecker said:

True, but if everyone you know is also confirming it....

That still doesn't change things. If a religious family or church crowd confirms it, then it's still a biased confirmation. It's just belief. Beliefs are filters, doesn't mean those filters are correct. If you look long enough for god, you'll find god, but you will never know 100% that it is god. 

[+DieChecker]

8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Isn't that a problem though. If are allowed to judge if god exist or not, what if we choose our own god. Not the god if such a god even exist.

It is the right of every person. It is to Christians to love everyone, and help people, and by that example lead others to do likewise.

No one can be forced to believe anything. God must be chosen for belief voluntarily. 

[cormac mac airt]

7 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Here is my earlier quote.

And...

These are not in conflict. In the previous post I was assuming the target audience to believe God is not real. So it was to establish God is real. And thus if that is so, then people must assume He was hiding. The post was to draw out just such a question as was asked.

Then I said that God speaks to everyone, many simply aren't listening. This was to meant to mesh with the other post, in that why if God speaks to everyone, why is He hiding? Answer is He is not hiding. God is right there, all people have to do is look.

People don't hear, because they are not listening. They think God is hiding, because they don't look.

When I posted, "Why is God hiding?". My intended response was, "He not...".

I read your posts, I just didn't see it that way. First, one shouldn't assume God exists before hand. Second, who's God? And Third, if one presumes it's the Christian God then on what authority do they speak for same and how can it be known that they speak with any validity? 

cormac

[XenoFish]

Just now, DieChecker said:

It is the right of every person. It is to Christians to love everyone, and help people, and by that example lead others to do likewise.

No one can be forced to believe anything. God must be chosen for belief voluntarily. 

You can love others without religion, same for helping people. That isn't an exclusively religious thing. 

Some people go out of their way to force religion onto others. Be it through belittling and mockery. If you've chosen God, then that is the rose tinted lens's you selected. 

[+DieChecker]

Just now, XenoFish said:

That still doesn't change things. If a religious family or church crowd confirms it, then it's still a biased confirmation. It's just belief. Beliefs are filters, doesn't mean those filters are correct. If you look long enough for god, you'll find god, but you will never know 100% that it is god. 

True, but with more filters, the greater people will think they are right.

Belief is the Only reason to Believe. To people who believe, what happens isnt chance but a factual result if their belief. Which further strengthens their belief.

[+DieChecker]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Once again all of that lead to confirmation bias and perhaps magical thinking. If I heard god I'd go see my doctor. I'd probably have a few screws loose.

As I put in my original post, mental illness can be a real issue in such things. Seeking medical advise is always a good idea.

[XenoFish]

Just now, DieChecker said:

True, but with more filters, the greater people will think they are right.

Belief is the Only reason to Believe. To people who believe, what happens isnt chance but a factual result if their belief. Which further strengthens their belief.

Which is just confirmation bias and belief perseverance. 

A woman prays to make it through a rough week, she does.

A woman does a candle spell to her patron goddess to help her make it through a rough week, she does.

A woman tells herself that she can handle this week, no matter what, she does.

What is the difference?

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

As I put in my original post, mental illness can be a real issue in such things. Seeking medical advise is always a good idea.

Do you have any idea how the occult attracts those with mental illness? Same goes for religions. Not much difference. Do you think that perhaps someone who might have been "a little off" in the head, who thought the voice they heard was god. And that same person told others, and eventually those others told others, and a religion was born. 

[+Desertrat56]

13 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

True, but with more filters, the greater people will think they are right.

Belief is the Only reason to Believe. To people who believe, what happens isnt chance but a factual result if their belief. Which further strengthens their belief.

This reminds me of the Emperor's new clothes.  Just because a group of people say they saw something doesn't mean they all did, they may be afraid to be different, or wrong or to go against the group. 

[cormac mac airt]

7 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

True, but with more filters, the greater people will think they are right.

Belief is the Only reason to Believe. To people who believe, what happens isn't chance but a factual result if their belief. Which further strengthens their belief.

Belief then doesn't actually require a "real" God, it basically becomes a placebo IMO. 

cormac

[+Sherapy]

25 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

True, but if everyone you know is also confirming it....

Well confirmation bias is a feature of human cognition. 

[+Sherapy]

30 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

True, but with more filters, the greater people will think they are right.

Belief is the Only reason to Believe. To people who believe, what happens isnt chance but a factual result if their belief. Which further strengthens their belief.

We call that over generalization and to critically think we have to account for it to be as objective as we can be. 

Ockham’s razor: the proposition with least amount of assumptions must be concluded. 

I think as long as one notes this understanding in their conclusions that works for me. 

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Sherapy

[cormac mac airt]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

We call that over generalization and to critically think we have to account for it to be fair. 

Besides which, the following he stated....

Quote

To people who believe, what happens isn't chance but a factual result if their belief. Which further strengthens their belief.

Becomes, for all intents and purposes, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

cormac

[+Sherapy]

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

Besides which, the following he stated....

Becomes, for all intents and purposes, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

cormac

 

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

Besides which, the following he stated....

Becomes, for all intents and purposes, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

cormac

Indeed or Ockham’s razor: one must go with the one that has the least amount of assumptions. 

Or at least note they get this. 

[+Hammerclaw]

To attest to God's existence,  one crosses the bourn of Faith and Belief and one's answers can only be couched in statements of Faith. There's no point in any asking for more than that because there isn't any. For a believer, God is everywhere, there is no place where we can go that he is not. He is our Lord within and without, forever and ever, our world without end. That's all you get and you get no more on your side of the border of belief and unbelief. I'm sorry if you find that unsatisfactory, but you are welcome to cross over, anytime.

[onlookerofmayhem]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

People don't hear, because they are not listening. They think God is hiding, because they don't look.

What would you say to those people who believed in a god most of their lives and then changed their mind?

[+Sherapy]

16 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

To attest to God's existence,  one crosses the bourn of Faith and Belief and one's answers can only be couched in statements of Faith. There's no point in any asking for more than that because there isn't any. For a believer, God is everywhere, there is no place where we can go that he is not. He is our Lord within and without, forever and ever, our world without end. That's all you get and you get no more on your side of the border of belief and unbelief. I'm sorry if you find that unsatisfactory, but you are welcome to cross over, anytime.

How would you address that “it isn’t that god doesn’t talk it’s that people aren’t listening?”

[XenoFish]

28 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

To attest to God's existence,  one crosses the bourn of Faith and Belief and one's answers can only be couched in statements of Faith. There's no point in any asking for more than that because there isn't any. For a believer, God is everywhere, there is no place where we can go that he is not. He is our Lord within and without, forever and ever, our world without end. That's all you get and you get no more on your side of the border of belief and unbelief. I'm sorry if you find that unsatisfactory, but you are welcome to cross over, anytime.

How does belief benefit me? Is there an actual payoff? 

[+Desertrat56]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

How does belief benefit me? Is there an actual payoff? 

The payoff isn't for you, it is brownie points for the person who convinces you.  I guess there is a tote board in heaven.

[+Hammerclaw]

15 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

How would you address that “it isn’t that god doesn’t talk it’s that people aren’t listening?”

A statement of faith and not falsifiable--it's not suppose to be.

[+Hammerclaw]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

How does belief benefit me? Is there an actual payoff? 

Beats me. Faith is like walking a tightrope without a net.