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God Lover

Spiritual or science

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Sherapy
3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Defending a team member ? I do think he ought to provide an explanation, after all, he is the one saying mine is wrong, but offers no explanation at all. As for what I read or don't read, more guesswork on your part, I did say I don't read through MW's long posts, though. But full marks for coming along to support the team !

Habbies, LG is saying how you interpret my posts is meaningless and pointless, it has no bearing on the discussion.

It really doesn’t. 

Find something else to do like address the thread topic.

You need to take a deep breath and let go, work on getting along. 

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Habitat
1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Habbies, LG is saying how you interpret my posts is meaningless and pointless, it has no bearing on the discussion.

It really doesn’t. 

Find something else to do like address the thread topic.

You need to take a deep breath and let go, work on getting along. 

get along with the team ? Don't lecture me about sticking to thread topics, you deviate constantly, and can't even get the forum category right, insisting it to be the "skeptical section". You are just trying to shut down dissent, at every turn.

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Sherapy
3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

get along with the team ? Don't lecture me about sticking to thread topics, you deviate constantly, and can't even get the forum category right, insisting it to be the "skeptical section". You are just trying to shut down dissent, at every turn.

Back on topic, I will not engage you any more. 

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Hammerclaw
On 9/2/2019 at 8:08 PM, Sherapy said:

Back on topic, I will not engage you any more. 

The silence has become deafening, of late. As for the topic; seems more likely one would hear a spirit in one's mind. Dispenses with the need to manipulate matter by some outre means 

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XenoFish
25 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The silence has become deafening, of late. As for the topic; seems more likely one would hear a spirit in one's mind. Dispenses with the need to manipulate matter by some outre means 

If you hear a spirit in you mind, how do you determine if it truly is a spirit and not your imagination.

There are times when silence is needed.

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joc
16 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If you hear a spirit in you mind, how do you determine if it truly is a spirit and not your imagination.

There are times when silence is needed.

Especially with all the...God told me to do it...crappola that hits the news feeds occasionally.

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

If you hear a spirit in you mind, how do you determine if it truly is a spirit and not your imagination.

There are times when silence is needed.

The same way one determines whether or not love is real--with the heart? Of course, in both cases, they may only be real for you.

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Aquila King
1 hour ago, joc said:

Especially with all the...God told me to do it...crappola that hits the news feeds occasionally.

What's sadly even more prevalent are all the "Mr so-and-so religious leader told me that God told him tot tell me to do it."

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Mr Walker
On 9/2/2019 at 4:55 PM, eight bits said:

And so we are in agreement that trade-offs are necessary. Maybe somebody will cut down on how much of which meat they eat, drink in moderation, smoke only an occasional cigar, and so on. This person will forego some of the tremendous positive effects that squeaky-clean living may confer, in order to enjoy some of the social and personal benefits of occasional moderate indulgence during an adequately healthy and venerably long life.

Yes, it is another thing. Your opponents don't deny the harm, and don't deny that some religious people abstain because of their beliefs about supernatural matters. Nevertheless you argue these uncontested points repeatedly, as if they were contested. You are strawmanning.

2. Not how I see it a t all and not how many of my opponents argue The y simply deny any benefit to, or from, religious attendance or spiritual belief 

1. No the trade offs are not NECESSARY. They are choices made due to human weaknesses and frailties  One can alter what one finds enjoyable eg ive never missed  smoking or drinking (or even sex ) :)    because I have other far more enjoyable experiences Enjoyment is a state of mind and, like all states of mind can be controlled shaped and directed by the mind    

Humans do not have to be weak willed, subject to their physical and emotional desires, and incapable of behaving  rationally  It is mostly that as children, this is how we are encouraged or allowed to behave 

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Mr Walker
On 9/2/2019 at 3:36 PM, onlookerofmayhem said:

Indeed. Too bad we all know that none of us will win that war. 

I don't really see that as relevant or interesting. Death is merely returning to the non existence of pre conception As far as i can remember, that wasn't so bad :) 

It is about how we live our lives and improve our world,  in the time we have here.

 

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Mr Walker
On 9/2/2019 at 7:51 PM, XenoFish said:

Workout, eat well, die anyway.

 

but probably live a longer, healthier, happier and less painful life; more able to do more, and enjoy more, than if you did not do these things. 

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Mr Walker
On 9/3/2019 at 1:50 AM, Liquid Gardens said:

That also looks like a strawman; who said that spirituality 'can't' have any positive effects?  Should be an easy quote to provide since 'most' here supposedly deny it.

As eight just pointed out, where are the studies that say adopting a religious outlook results in a net benefit for that person if they are not already religiously inclined?

And logical blocks since you presume everyone wants what you want in life.  'Happy' is sometimes in conflict with 'long' and 'healthy'; some prioritize quality before quantity in our years allotted.  'Logically' we'd all not go skiing either, which is an activity I think you've said you at liked to partake in back in the day; people risk injury for some fun on the slopes, 'illogically' apparently, and there are far more efficient and safer ways to gain the health benefits from it.

 

Happy is only a state of mind. You can control your mind and even cause it to produce hormonal changes which will make you happy.

But choose what makes you happy and do that and you will BE happy.   Construct a pastern of happiness in your neural pathways and you can be happy in any condition 

Life involves risks. Allowable risks are those which grow and develop or strengthen a person and their  character Non acceptable risks are those which bring harm without growth or development.

Risk management, strategic planning etc., reduce the likelihood of serious harm

Eg I made and used explosives as a teenager and did every sort of sport imaginable. I  never  broke a bone or suffered a serious injury (only some flesh wounds )  So that form of risk is logical, and justifiable, while drink driving, taking drugs, or even using alcohol and cigarettes are not.  They dont grow you, develop new disciplines of the mind,  give you new skills, or make you healthier fitter and smarter. 

 

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Mr Walker
On 9/3/2019 at 3:05 AM, third_eye said:

I must say I'm rather sad to say that there are no pacemaker like devices or contraptions for the brain, regardless of what some people are inclined to believe....

~

 We are getting there, with both chemical and  physical implants 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/technology/these-brain-boosting-devices-could-give-us-intelligence-superpowers-n755006

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/06/humans-with-amplified-intelligence-could-be-more-powerful-than-ai/

https://futurism.com/this-smart-drug-could-hack-your-brain-chemistry-to-increase-your-intelligence

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0637/7d8570435662ccb509cbe85909efdc76e728.pdf

 

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third_eye
5 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

We are getting there, with both chemical and  physical implants 

We? 

Were you lying when you claimed to possess such excellent intelligence that is beyond chemical or mechanical augmentation? 

We knew you were... 

:yes:

~

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Mr Walker
On 9/3/2019 at 3:32 AM, Sherapy said:

 

I work with people who either have a chronic a chronic illness or diagnosis’s that are irreversible. Here is my two cents for whatever it is worth. 

Where a mental state is useful is in the  ability to adapt to one’s circumstances, to make peace with the idea that moving forward you will have limitations that dictate what you can and cannot do. Many people feel embarrassed and angry at themselves and long for their old selves, meaning the self that was not sick. Having a strong support system now is imperative, this is where a good caregiver or companion comes in, as they accept you for who you are now as opposed to who you were when you had your health and vitality, a caregiver understands how to apply empathy and compassion in proactive ways. 

They also help your family adjust to you now and encourage you and advocate for you in ways that can help you get the most out of life under your current circumstances. Also what is useful is a support group that is geared toward your condition as you can feel alone and isolated when you don’t connect with others due to the demands of caring for yourself and others, this is what leads to depression. When we don’t have contact with others we think we are the only ones going through our circumstances, what helps about support groups is you see real fast that while things might be seem bleak there is hope, you get ideas from other members and it is geared towards what is happening in your life now, it isn’t about praying away your ills or denying them. Typically, it is at this point youthful starry eyed faith morphs into the ability to face reality and assess what can be done, faith becomes an ability to push through and get back up through the hard times, 

I have been greatly honored to lead support groups, they are fun and they help a lot with morale, comfort and resources. It is a place one can share, grieve, be angry and not be judged for it. one can ask questions and get guidance,  It is a place one can be human and other humans are there for you they understand because they are going through something similar, there is humor which helps too and many men attend, interestingly men do really well ( faster if you are asking me). I do care for a Doctor that is in chronic pain while meditation works in a pinch, it is steroids and pain pills that help her the most, never be afraid to use prescribed drugs as outlined by your doctor for relief. Chronic pain is its own prison, many older people are afraid of getting addicted to pain meds., so they don’t use their pills at all and suffer needlessly. My other patient also is in chronic pain due to Parkinson’s what helps her is her medications too, the rough time is when the dose wears off so we use massage and heating pads for pain relieve till her meds kick in.  So, use the meds.,don’t abuse them is the rule of thumb. 

Here in The US we have a lot of home health resources that many don’t know about perhaps you can look into this and find things that are geared towards your needs. 

I think writing a novel is a wonderful goal for you as it gives meaning and purpose and you are correct as long as you are alive you should preserve your dignity and passion for living. 

If I can be of any assistance feel free to PM me.

All the best to you. 

You continue to bring your own painful life experiences and learned responses to bear on my life The y are irrelevant Not only am i not you i dont think like you or see life as you do 

I ace;t your general advice on  life  (it is actually very good advice) but don't see why you are offering it to me My life continues to be pretty well  perfect.

i remain healthy happy and busy, with wide social networks and support groups .

I dont need health care support, given that my hospital and doctors and chemist are all less than half a kilometre (600 yards) from my home.   However my wife is on a home care package  She pays 60 dollars a month and receives 2000 dollars  each month into an account from the govt She can use this on any health need and currently has about 3 hours cleaning, an hours gardening and occasional  general maintenance.  per week She has  also purchased some items to help her pick things up, put on her socks etc  we can both access things like podiatry for a minimal cost  If i could not drive we can have all groceries  and medicines home delivered  for free and someone to take us out for social or other requirements  

I agree tha t many do not know of all the services available I was in a group of cardio physio  patients of whom  less then half knew of all the help available to them. I imagine its the same in america although, from what i read, America does not have the level of social support available to all in Australia. eg we get all our medicines for free having reached a safety net limit based on our pensions and expenditure on drugs     (So once we spend more than 360 dollars  between us on pharmaceuticals in any one year, all the rest are free. plus all drugs on prescription are about 6 dollars  )

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, third_eye said:

We? 

Were you lying when you claimed to possess such excellent intelligence that is beyond chemical or mechanical augmentation? 

We knew you were... 

:yes:

~

We, as in we humans and our  science/technology.

 I've never claimed that.

 I guess my intelligence would also be improved by chemical enhancement, or the implantation of neural chips. I'd  love to have the opportunity to try. 

My claim is that ALL humans have untapped potential in their minds which just requires; time, discipline, and training, to bring out. ( I've been working consciously on my mind since i was about 4 years old, and  first became aware of my stream of consciousness   

The enhancements mentioned in the sources are supplementary to our natural abilities  One of the mos likely uses will  not  be improving /enhancing things like memory and intelligence but restoring them  in injured people.

quote

Over the past five years, the U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) has invested $77 million to develop devices intended to restore the memory-generation capacity of people with traumatic brain injuries. 

Justin Sanchez, who just stepped down as director of Darpa’s biological technologies office, says veterans will be the first to use the prosthetics. “We have hundreds of thousands of military personnel with traumatic brain injuries,” he says. The next group will likely be stroke and Alzheimer’s patients. Eventually, perhaps, the general public will have access—

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-10/upgrade-your-memory-with-a-surgically-implanted-chip

Edited by Mr Walker

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third_eye
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

 I've never claimed that.

Yes you did, on numerous occasions, quite insistent you were too, I might add. 

~

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danydandan
4 hours ago, Aquila King said:

What's sadly even more prevalent are all the "Mr so-and-so religious leader told me that God told him tot tell me to do it."

That is what's scary. A half way smart individual with ambition in being a cult leader or something could persuade hundreds if not thousands to do bad stuff. 

They'd never second guess it. 

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danydandan
6 hours ago, XenoFish said:

If you hear a spirit in you mind, how do you determine if it truly is a spirit and not your imagination.

There are times when silence is needed.

I can't fathom how anyone who thought/think they "heard" a voice in their mind, assumed initially that it was/is a spirit/ghost/godly being/insert nonsensical imaginary being here. 

My initial thoughts would be.....oh maybe I am going insane.

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XenoFish
6 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

The same way one determines whether or not love is real--with the heart? Of course, in both cases, they may only be real for you.

Love is just a chemical.

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Love is just a chemical.

 

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Hammerclaw
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

 

So is your opinion.

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

So is your opinion.

And? Your point.

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Hammerclaw
8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

And? Your point.

Negativism is just as subject to chemical imbalances in the brain as positivism is to rushes of chemicals to the brain and equally dismissible as irrelevance. 

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Negativism is just as subject to chemical imbalances in the brain as positivism is to rushes of chemicals to the brain and equally dismissible as irrelevance. 

So.

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