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God Lover

Spiritual or science

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Hammerclaw
14 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

The payoff isn't for you, it is brownie points for the person who convinces you.  I guess there is a tote board in heaven.

The only one that can convince you is yourself. Weak minds rarely stay convinced of anything, for long. Faith is an effort of will(no, not that Will).

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Sherapy
8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

A statement of faith and not falsifiable--it's not suppose to be.

Exactly.

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XenoFish
7 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Beats me. Faith is like walking a tightrope without a net.

Throw in a few beers and then it might be entertaining.

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Hammerclaw
Just now, XenoFish said:

Throw in a few beers and then it might be entertaining.

Sorry, we only serve sacramental wine--but there's plenty of it.

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XenoFish
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Sorry, we only serve sacramental wine--but there's plenty of it.

So watered down non-alcoholic grape juice. 

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Hammerclaw
Just now, XenoFish said:

So watered down non-alcoholic grape juice. 

No, the real thing--Jesus didn't turn water into kool aid.

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Habitat
12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Science doesn't disprove a God candidate because nothing exists to disprove.

Idiocy101. Anyone who agrees with what is in the quote box, is, sadly, suffering from incurable mental enfeeblement. 

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XenoFish
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

No, the real thing--Jesus didn't turn water into kool aid.

Jesus would've needed to exist to do that. 

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XenoFish
Just now, Habitat said:

Idiocy101. Anyone who agrees with what is in the quote box, is, sadly, suffering from incurable mental enfeeblement. 

Someone has their sassy pants on. 

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Hammerclaw
Just now, XenoFish said:

Jesus would've needed to exist to do that. 

We got that covered on this side of the divide. 

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

We got that covered on this side of the divide. 

Imaginary friends with benefits?

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Hammerclaw
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Imaginary friends with benefits?

Sure. If you're going to believe in something might as well go for a really big one. Anyway, most of my friends were imaginary--but I don't see them, anymore.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sure. If you're going to believe in something might as well go for a really big one.

What's the point? 

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

What's the point? 

Xeno, I don't have an evangelical bone in my body. I don't care if anyone believes or disbelieves. Talking Faith to an unbeliever is like talking French to someone who doesn't speak it. Everyone is entitled to go to Hell, after their own fashion--figuratively speaking, because I don't believe in the Biblical Hell, the refurbished version of the Greek Hades. One either has a predisposition to believe or one does not. Some people are completely incapable of ever believing. I accept that. For such a person, there is and forever, no point.

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Xeno, I don't have an evangelical bone in my body. I don't care if anyone believes or disbelieves. Talking Faith to an unbeliever is like talking French to someone who doesn't speak it. Everyone is entitled to go to Hell, after their own fashion--figuratively speaking, because I don't believe in the Biblical Hell, the refurbished version of the Greek Hades. One either has a predisposition to believe or one does not. Some people are completely incapable of ever believing. I accept that. For such a person, there is and forever, no point.

Yet here we are. And how often are folks like myself told how unenlightened we are for not believing? That the chemical high of a mystical experience is proof of god or heaven. How certain dreams are said to be divine messages. Is it all due to belief? Why the compulsion to believe something that's not grounded in reality? 

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Hammerclaw
Just now, XenoFish said:

Yet here we are. And how often are folks like myself told how unenlightened we are for not believing? That the chemical high of a mystical experience is proof of god or heaven. How certain dreams are said to be divine messages. Is it all due to belief? Why the compulsion to believe something that's not grounded in reality? 

Why the compulsion to brood about it if one doesn't? In the ear of the unbeliever it's just static, gibberish, nonsense. If grounded in reality is such a wonderful thing, why are so many unbelievers, some filthy rich with everything material to live for, so miserable? They might as well brood about what all the birds are chattering about. 

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XenoFish

I have trouble assuming that things will work out because I prayed. To put trust and hope in thing unseen/unrealized. I lost my faith. Are it was faith that betrayed me. Either way I can't form such beliefs anymore. I try to hope, but I become extremely aware of the negative. The inevitable disappointment. So I have a lot of trouble understanding hopefulness, faith, and belief.

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XenoFish
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Why the compulsion to brood about it if one doesn't? In the ear of the unbeliever it's just static, gibberish, nonsense. If grounded in reality is such a wonderful thing, why are so many unbelievers, some filthy rich with everything material to live for, so miserable? They might as well brood about what all the birds are chattering about. 

Everyone is miserable. People just mask their suffering differently. 

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Everyone is miserable. People just mask their suffering differently. 

My, my, you certainly ARE capable of believing something--even if it isn't true. Happiness is never one hundred percent--it's the sweet wine of life we eagerly drink whenever we're able.

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DieChecker
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Which is just confirmation bias and belief perseverance. 

A woman prays to make it through a rough week, she does.

A woman does a candle spell to her patron goddess to help her make it through a rough week, she does.

A woman tells herself that she can handle this week, no matter what, she does.

What is the difference?

The difference is in each individual. Each thinks their experience is an observation... evidence. Evidence of God in their life.

Crazy thing is it is impossible to prove it is not. With being able to prove, or disprove, God, then acts of God are similarly impossible to prove, or disprove. 

If God is real, then those answered prays ARE evidence. 

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Will do
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Everyone is miserable. 

 

Didn't you ask?

 

11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Why the compulsion to believe something that's not grounded in reality? 

 

It's ok. We all think in ways like this. It's what makes being human interesting. One step right. Next step left.

 

 

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cormac mac airt
59 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

A statement of faith and not falsifiable--it's not suppose to be.

Actually I’ve seen it or its equivalent used as a veiled threat from believer to unbeliever in an effort to enforce said belief or suffer Gods wrath or something similar, so calling it simply a statement of faith is a bit disingenuous IMO. Not saying that you would do that, however it does get used that way. 

cormac

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XenoFish
4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

My, my, you certainly ARE capable of believing something--even if it isn't true. Happiness is never one hundred percent--it's the sweet wine of life we eagerly drink whenever we're able.

I don't believe in happiness. If anything it's a temporary rush of feel good chemicals that rapidly vanishes. Then you're right back where you started. The pursuit of happiness is a fools errand. 

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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

The difference is in each individual. Each thinks their experience is an observation... evidence. Evidence of God in their life.

Crazy thing is it is impossible to prove it is not. With being able to prove, or disprove, God, then acts of God are similarly impossible to prove, or disprove. 

If God is real, then those answered prays ARE evidence. 

That's subjective and not factual.

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DieChecker
2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

I read your posts, I just didn't see it that way. First, one shouldn't assume God exists before hand. Second, who's God? And Third, if one presumes it's the Christian God then on what authority do they speak for same and how can it be known that they speak with any validity? 

cormac

First assume no God. End of discussion... we both assume there is no God.

So then, for the sake of discussion, God is real. Who God is, is found by way of relationship. Relationship that requires belief and faith. A new convert can't know who God is, they can only know those who follow Him, and judge by their example. 

Third, ultimately you can't know. You can only trust if you know God's followers and trust that they know God. Christians will speak with authority, but out of their experience and relationship with God. Those who speak in authority from the Bible alone are putting forward a weak arguement IMHO.

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