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God Lover

Spiritual or science

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Habitat
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

What? What happened to you'd put anything out to be discussed?

false argument, I have discussed instances, redundantly, adding more, that are very difficult to describe, let alone explain, would be redundant. You made a particularity of "rapping" as a classic trick, and obviously implied imposture by me, about that, you fell at the first hurdle, called "do not judge".

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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

And as for someone explaining their antipathy to religion, based on some arzholes who flew planes into buildings, well that is just incredibly lame, even if their motives were based on some religious dogma, which is highly questionable, it looks for all the world like a confected excuse. I know very well, as would anyone with any insight, that the true motives for the anti-religious sentiment, is way closer to home.

It’s like you are having your own rant. Carry on. 

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Mr Walker
14 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Explain those that don’t believe in god and are doing just fine surviving. Lol 

I understand you are looking for guarantees like a get rich quick scheme.

 

 

 

Actually statistically (and thus, in the real world)  they are not.

Just as smokers die younger than non smokers,  nonbelievers and non church attendees ( within an otherwise identical cohort)  live shorter lives, and are less healthy than believers/church attendees. 

No guarantees.

Stopping smoking wont always mean you  don't get cancer, and it wont stop you getting run over by a bus, but across a population for individuals, the benefits in not smoking ,and in attending any sort of church (or being spiritual ) are enormous. 

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Sherapy
3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Actually statistically (and thus, in the real world)  they are not.

Just as smokers die younger than non smokers,  nonbelievers and non church attendees ( within an otherwise identical cohort)  live shorter lives, and are less healthy than believers/church attendees. 

No guarantees.

Stopping smoking wont always mean you  don't get cancer, and it wont stop you getting run over by a bus, but across a population for individuals, the benefits in not smoking ,and in attending any sort of church (or being spiritual ) are enormous. 

Sorry, it just doesn’t hold up, if we look at you a man devoted to his faith you have had two major heart surgeries, the misses has had serious issues too. This is not having a go at you, it is looking at what you preach and determining if your advice has any merit and should I consider it. The answer is no, I will stick with what the Doctors in my life say and that is diet and exercise is ones best bet. 

It bears out too, based on your own admission you yourself said you ate to much and let your health go. 

What is helping you is good medical care and following your drs. advice, and I hope for you you do get another 10 years, it won’t be your faith that enables this it will be the effort and commitment you invest in eating right and exercising. Which by the way is a good thing if you are finally eating right. 

All the best, Walls. 

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Habitat
13 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

It’s like you are having your own rant. Carry on. 

I guess the team are engaged in an endless rant about "nothing", because they sure prefer the idea that the is "nothing there". Me, I only go with I know, if I knew nothing about it, I'd offer no commentary, save perhaps this....."I don't know"

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Mr Walker
14 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Exactly, there are no quick fixes that is what your kid Xeno and I are saying. 

What works is the diet and exercise. 

Belief in god is optional, it is placebo at best, like you said it may help you cope with the long road ahead of committing to healthy choices but it doesn’t do the work for you, or give advantages.. 

Good job lady!

 

Scientifically it does.

BOTH types of behaviour along with others ( like owning a dog and (for men only) being married )  help You accept  the material but deny the psychological effects of belief and church attendance which impact on both psychological and physical health.

 It is clear you have read NONE of the sources i provided from experts in the field. 

quote

People who regularly attend church have lower blood pressure and higher immune systems, are less likely to abuse alcohol and drugs, show lower rates of depression and suicide, and are more likely to live longer than non-churchgoers. The more they attend, the greater this life-extending impact becomes, and the effect is found even when other variables are controlled for.

Researchers say it likely isn’t just one factor about going to church that creates these benefits to mind and body, but a combination of many of the things listed here, and the way they impact so many different areas of a person’s life. Positive peer pressure from fellow congregants, as well as church-sponsored addiction programs, may help people quit smoking or drinking. The kind of robust social support church provides has repeatedly been proven to bolster physical and mental health. The discipline learned at church can carry over into things like diet and exercise. Messages of hope and a sense of purpose may lift participants’ spirits.

Know that the MIT economist Jonathan Gruber studied the data, and found that church attendance does indeed causally produce many of the above benefits.

Further, many of the studies cited did control for other variables that would have potentially skewed the results. Where such is the case, it was explicitly mentioned above.

With a few other of the studies cited, untangling causation and correlation is indeed difficult. Even in these cases, however, I think it’s worth pondering why it is that the healthier/happier crowd is more likely to go to church, and whether it might not be wise to follow where they’re headed.

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/go-church-even-youre-not-sure-beliefs/

quote

Researchers looked at data on nearly 75,000 middle-age female nurses in the United States as part of the Nurses' Health Study. The participants answered questions about whether they attended religious services regularly every four years between 1992 and 2012, and about other aspects of their lives over the years.

The researchers found that women who went to church more than once a week had a 33% lower risk of dying during the study period compared with those who said they never went. Less-frequent attendance was also associated with a lower risk of death, as women who attended once a week or less than weekly had 26% and 13% lower risk of death, respectively.

Women who regularly attended religious services also had higher rates of social support and optimism, had lower rates of depression and were less likely to smoke. However, the researchers took into account these differences between churchgoers and non-church goers when they calculated the decrease in death rates of 13% to 33%.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/16/health/religion-lifespan-health/index.html

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Sherapy
Just now, Habitat said:

I guess the team are engaged in an endless rant about "nothing", because they sure prefer the idea that the is "nothing there". Me, I only go with I know, if I knew nothing about it, I'd offer no commentary, save perhaps this....."I don't know"

Okay Habit, I hope you get whatever is on your mind figured out. 

Good luck. 

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Mr Walker
Just now, Sherapy said:

Sorry, it just doesn’t hold up, if we look at you a man devoted to his faith you have had two major heart surgeries, the misses has had serious issues too. This is not having a go at you, it is looking at what you preach and determining if your advice has any merit and should I consider it. The answer is no, I will stick with what the Doctors in my life say and that is diet and exercise is ones best bet. 

It bears out too, based on your own admission you yourself said you ate to much and let your health go. 

What is helping you is good medical care and following your drs. advice, and I hope for you you do get another 10 years, it won’t be your faith that enables this it will be the effort and commitment you invest in eating right and exercising. Which by the way is a good thing if you are finally eating right. 

All the best, Walls. 

It does hold up scientifically and medically. You just cannot believe it 

My personal  experience is irrelevant  eg some non smokers contract lung cancer and die from it, but as I said you could also argue that, without god, I would be dead many decades ago  

Again yep all those things help

 BUT If i went to church it would help me live longer and if I had spiritual beliefs, that would also help.  That is the part you refuse to accept

Always ate "right" but maybe enjoyed good food too much 

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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

Scientifically it does.

BOTH types of behaviour along with others ( like owning a dog and (for men only) being married )  help You accept  the material but deny the psychological effects of belief and church attendance which impact on both psychological and physical health.

 It is clear you have read NONE of the sources i provided from experts in the field. 

quote

People who regularly attend church have lower blood pressure and higher immune systems, are less likely to abuse alcohol and drugs, show lower rates of depression and suicide, and are more likely to live longer than non-churchgoers. The more they attend, the greater this life-extending impact becomes, and the effect is found even when other variables are controlled for.

Researchers say it likely isn’t just one factor about going to church that creates these benefits to mind and body, but a combination of many of the things listed here, and the way they impact so many different areas of a person’s life. Positive peer pressure from fellow congregants, as well as church-sponsored addiction programs, may help people quit smoking or drinking. The kind of robust social support church provides has repeatedly been proven to bolster physical and mental health. The discipline learned at church can carry over into things like diet and exercise. Messages of hope and a sense of purpose may lift participants’ spirits.

Know that the MIT economist Jonathan Gruber studied the data, and found that church attendance does indeed causally produce many of the above benefits.

Further, many of the studies cited did control for other variables that would have potentially skewed the results. Where such is the case, it was explicitly mentioned above.

With a few other of the studies cited, untangling causation and correlation is indeed difficult. Even in these cases, however, I think it’s worth pondering why it is that the healthier/happier crowd is more likely to go to church, and whether it might not be wise to follow where they’re headed.

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/go-church-even-youre-not-sure-beliefs/

quote

Researchers looked at data on nearly 75,000 middle-age female nurses in the United States as part of the Nurses' Health Study. The participants answered questions about whether they attended religious services regularly every four years between 1992 and 2012, and about other aspects of their lives over the years.

The researchers found that women who went to church more than once a week had a 33% lower risk of dying during the study period compared with those who said they never went. Less-frequent attendance was also associated with a lower risk of death, as women who attended once a week or less than weekly had 26% and 13% lower risk of death, respectively.

Women who regularly attended religious services also had higher rates of social support and optimism, had lower rates of depression and were less likely to smoke. However, the researchers took into account these differences between churchgoers and non-church goers when they calculated the decrease in death rates of 13% to 33%.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/16/health/religion-lifespan-health/index.html

Eegads, I think you want to believe this, you sound like my ex husband had heart issues too, he is dead now. Preached all the same stuff. 

I certainly hope you eat right and exercise, with the fervor you preach I hope you invest in your health practically too you know what happens if you don’t. And, a person can only go thru so many major surgeries. 

Good luck, Walls. 

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Hammerclaw
4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I guess the team are engaged in an endless rant about "nothing", because they sure prefer the idea that the is "nothing there". Me, I only go with I know, if I knew nothing about it, I'd offer no commentary, save perhaps this....."I don't know"

Oh, no! It isn't that there's nothing there. It's your argument where there's nothing there

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Mr Walker
13 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Seems like he might be worse off.  After all he just responded to eight's, "You can trot out your studies showing that on average believers have better health outcomes than non-believers in this or that surveyed population. You needn't do so again; the point is granted, the studies exist.", by trotting out even more studies that were already granted do exist.  I think he missed the point.

If you read the bolded bits, you could see within them the beginnings of explanation for causal effects and links, which 8 bits said did not exist in studies.  Without the surrounding text the y were not apparent or clear. 

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psyche101
3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Eegads, I think you want to believe this, you sound like my ex husband had heart issues too, he is dead now. Preached all the same stuff. 

I certainly hope you eat right and exercise, with the fervor you preach I hope you invest in your health practically too you know what happens if you don’t. And, a person can only go thru so many major surgeries. 

Good luck, Walls. 

Its like a personal religion isn't it.... :unsure2:

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Sherapy
2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

It does hold up scientifically and medically. You just cannot believe it 

My personal  experience is irrelevant  eg some non smokers contract lung cancer and die from it, but as I said you could also argue that, without god, I would be dead many decades ago  

Again yep all those things help

 BUT If i went to church it would help me live longer and if I had spiritual beliefs, that would also help.  That is the part you refuse to accept

Always ate "right" but maybe enjoyed good food too much 

I think it is fine if you want to believe this, for me, it is nonsense, but each to their own, and  do make sure you keep the weight off by eating right and exercising. 

Being overweight is horrible for your health after a certain point.

 

 

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Habitat
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Oh, no! It isn't that there's nothing there. It's your argument where there's nothing there

Show me any argument that confirms there is "something there". Or better still, don't bother, there aren't any.

 

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Its like a personal religion isn't it.... :unsure2:

Funny, but all religion is personal when it comes down it. Everyone pretty much believes the same thing, differently. Mr Walker is just a congregation of one.

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Hammerclaw
Just now, Habitat said:

Show me any argument that confirms there is "something there". Or better still, don't bother, there aren't any.

 

Nature abhors a vacuum--there's always something there.

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Nature abhors a vacuum--there's always something there.

It might be Platitude Heaven, you'd love it !

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Mr Walker
8 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Eegads, I think you want to believe this, you sound like my ex husband had heart issues too, he is dead now. Preached all the same stuff. 

I certainly hope you eat right and exercise, with the fervor you preach I hope you invest in your health practically too you know what happens if you don’t. And, a person can only go thru so many major surgeries. 

Good luck, Walls. 

 It is not belief 

it is proven medical and scientific fact 

i thought you were into that, but apparently only when the facts confirm your own biases.

Have you read any of the sources ?

Have you understood any of them  and what the y mean?

Can you explain where you think the y are in error and provide any evidences that the y are wrong?  

lol i dont worry about myself so you don't need to  :) 

I am supposed to have minimum of 15 years left out of this replacement and they probably wont do another one at tha t age  But then I could be killed by a kangaroo while driving home in the dark any day . .

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Sherapy
Just now, psyche101 said:

Its like a personal religion isn't it.... :unsure2:

It sounds like someone wants the easy way.

 

I say okay but he better keep the weight off and exercise as a precaution wink wink. If I was his wife I wouldn’t be mincing words I might even say he is talking stupid. But each to his own.

My ex was like this we were always on him too. Sad to say he hedged his bets on god and now he is not here. 

Took 4 years from his last major stroke which he barely survived. Never came back from, blind in one eye, lost the use of his left side. Would sneak pizza and unhealthy food and refused to exercise. 

Said the drs were full of shyt, he had god.

 

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

It might be Platitude Heaven, you'd love it !

The only heaven or hell there is, is what we take with us. You need to jettison a lot baggage before you go.

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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

 It is not belief 

it is proven medical and scientific fact 

i thought you were into that, but apparently only when the facts confirm your own biases.

Have you read any of the sources ?

Have you understood any of them  and what the y mean?

Can you explain where you think the y are in error and provide any evidences that the y are wrong?  

lol i dont worry about myself so you don't need to  :) 

I am supposed to have minimum of 15 years left out of this replacement and they probably wont do another one at tha t age  But then I could be killed by a kangaroo while driving home in the dark any day . .

Walls, hun it’s hogwash, your best chance is eat right and exercise. 

Read 8tys rebuttal he outlines the problems you are having with these studies. 

 

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Mr Walker
9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I think it is fine if you want to believe this, for me, it is nonsense, but each to their own, and  do make sure you keep the weight off by eating right and exercising. 

Being overweight is horrible for your health after a certain point.

 

 

Again its not about belief You are denying proven scientific and medical evidence.

It is  like saying My grandam smoked and lived to be 110. I don't believe smoking does any harm so i wont listen to any advice to stop smoking 

Overweight in itself is not so bad, as long as you do the requisite high and low level intensity  exercises  for good health :)  My mum and grandma were both very overweight for most of their lives and  lived to be almost 100 from other causes :)   (see what i am doing here? ) 

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

Again its not about belief You are denying proven scientific and medical evidence.

It is  like saying My grandam smoked and lived to be 110. I don't believe smoking does any harm so i wont listen to any advice to stop smoking 

Overweight in itself is not so bad, as long as you do the requisite high and low level intensity  exercises  for good health :)  My mum and grandma were both very overweight for most of their lives and  lived to be almost 100 from other causes :)   (see what i am doing here? ) 

Obfuscating and dissembling?

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cormac mac airt
10 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I think it is fine if you want to believe this, for me, it is nonsense, but each to their own, and  do make sure you keep the weight off by eating right and exercising. 

Being overweight is horrible for your health after a certain point.

From what I've seen and read concerning religious versus non-religious people it comes down to the religious being more apt to congregate amongst larger groups of like-minded individuals, while utilizing the groups religious constraints against alcohol, drugs, sex, etcetra which helps promote better living. It has little or nothing to do with them actually being religious, per se. Apparently the bigger the majority the better off they are.

cormac

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Hammerclaw
On 7/16/2019 at 1:32 PM, God Lover said:

I was about to hop in the shower but I heard in a whisper Ashhhlynnnn, and I turn around to discover nothing.And so my thoughts believed that it was a fly.But was it a fly or were spirits trying to tell me something or get my attention, we will never know what do you think and believe?

The spirit was in my mind, calling my name?

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