Plato´s Atlantis was in a River Delta

[Hanslune]

36 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

That's easy, as all i need to do is continue with you here to fail. Look! I'm failing!

All 50 mention God/Creator/Divine/Supreme Being/Providence/Lord/Almighty. And what is an act of God? I mean Hawaii became a state in 1959, and they could have simply stated an act of Nature. And what is the difference between a disaster and an act of God? Anyway, as I said, are you not grateful for Divine Guidance? The Divine did create the land for Hawaii to fulfill their state motto, and for which they are grateful.

Hawaii

Preamble:
We, the people of Hawaii, grateful for Divine Guidance, and mindful of our Hawaiian heritage and uniqueness as an island State, dedicate our efforts to fulfill the philosophy decreed by the Hawaii State motto, "Ua mau ke ea o ka aina i ka pono."

Article 7, Section 13:
Bonds issued by or on behalf of the State or by any political subdivision to meet appropriations for any fiscal period in anticipation of the collection of revenues for such period or to meet casual deficits or failures of revenue, if required to be paid within one year, and bonds issued by or on behalf of the State to suppress insurrection, to repel invasion, to defend the State in war or to meet emergencies caused by disaster or act of God.

You are a poor sore loser, as your kind very rarely will admit they are wrong, or more importantly, grateful.

Nope you are still wrong, still no sign of State or Federal recognition of a Federal or State religion - which one do you think it is by the way? Which god by the way do you think the Hawaiian were referring too?

This is the current break down of religion in Hawaii: In the past it was strong in Shintoism and the various Chinese philosophies as noted by the "unafiliated".

Christianity: 351,000 (28.9%)

Buddhism: 110,000 (9%)

Judaism: 10,000 (0.8%)

Other: 100,000 (10%)*

Unaffiliated: 650,000 (51.1%)**

Another view of that:

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/state/hawaii/

Still no sign of a Federal or State mandated religion.

[jaylemurph]

2 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Not addressing your point? What's the point, as you never really have a point with me, just praises alla Jay.  And by the way, are you still policing for matter of an adult nature on this forum? Better see what your fans and supporters are posting on this family site, and make the mods aware, if they have not spotted it.

“à la Jay.”

—Jaylemurph 

[Jodie.Lynne]

6 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Special needs prophet?

He is the only passenger of the metaphysical short bus...

[jaylemurph]

6 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Alabama

Preamble:
We, the people of the State of Alabama, in order to establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution and form of government for the State of Alabama:

Section 1:
That all men are equally free and independent; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

Alaska

Preamble:
We the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land, in order to secure and transmit to succeeding generations our heritage of political, civil, and religious liberty within the Union of States, do ordain and establish this constitution for the State of Alaska.

---

Arizona

Preamble:
We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution.

---

Arkansas

Preamble:
We, the People of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government; for our civil and religious liberty; and desiring to perpetuate its blessings, and secure the same to our selves and posterity; do ordain and establish this Constitution.

Arkansas

Preamble:
We, the People of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government; for our civil and religious liberty; and desiring to perpetuate its blessings, and secure the same to our selves and posterity; do ordain and establish this Constitution.

Article 2, Section 24:
All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences;

Article 19:
No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court.

Terminus:
... in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy four ...

---

California

Preamble:
We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure and perpetuate its blessings, do establish this Constitution.

---

Colorado

Preamble:
We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, in order to form a more independent and perfect government; establish justice; insure tranquillity; provide for the common defense; promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the "State of Colorado".

Article 5, Section 45:
... in the year of our Lord 1885 ...

Terminus:
... in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy-six ...

---

Connecticut

Preamble:
The People of Connecticut acknowledging with gratitude, the good providence of God, in having permitted them to enjoy a free government; do, in order more effectually to define, secure, and perpetuate the liberties, rights and privileges which they have derived from their ancestors; hereby, after a careful consideration and revision, ordain and establish the following constitution and form of civil government.

Article 11, Section 1, oath of office:
... So help you God.

---

Delaware

Preamble:
Through Divine goodness, all men have by nature the rights of worshiping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences, of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring and protecting reputation and property, and in general of obtaining objects suitable to their condition, without injury by one to another; and as these rights are essential to their welfare, for due exercise thereof, power is inherent in them; and therefore all just authority in the institutions of political society is derived from the people, and established with their consent, to advance their happiness; and they may for this end, as circumstances require, from time to time, alter their Constitution of government.

Article 1, Section 1:
Although it is the duty of all men frequently to assemble together for the public worship of Almighty God; and piety and morality, on which the prosperity of communities depends, are hereby promoted; yet no man shall or ought to be compelled to attend any religious worship, to contribute to the erection or support of any place of worship, or to the maintenance of any ministry, against his own free will and consent;

Article 5, Section 2:
... in the year of our Lord, Nineteen Hundred ...

Article 14, Section 1, oath of office:
"... so help me God."

Terminus:
... in the year of our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred and Ninety-Seven ...

As usual, you’re combining being wrong and being far too prolix. 

There’s only one US Constitution. There are state constitutions, but they’re all subject to the federal one. That’s the one I’m talking about, the one written by the exact same people who wrote the Treaty of Tripoli. The ones who set up the entirety of American government. The ones who deliberately left god out of their government. 

And no amount of your deliberate misunderstanding, deep ignorance or pointless chatter will alter that.

—Jaylemurph 

[Polar]

Quote

Types of Deltas Based on Shape

1. Arcuate Deltas

The term delta is derived from the upper-case Greek letter delta since a delta is expected to have a typical delta or triangular shape. However, not all deltas have this shape. Those that do are called arcuate deltas or arc-like deltas or fan-shaped deltas. The Nile delta is an example of an arcuate delta.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/how-many-types-of-deltas-are-there.html

[Swede]

23 minutes ago, Polar said:

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/how-many-types-of-deltas-are-there.html

Would you now be proposing that Greenland was, at any point in relevant history, positioned at the mouth of the Nile River? Is there any end to the stupid?

.

[+Pettytalk]

13 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Nope you are still wrong, still no sign of State or Federal recognition of a Federal or State religion - which one do you think it is by the way? Which god by the way do you think the Hawaiian were referring too?

This is the current break down of religion in Hawaii: In the past it was strong in Shintoism and the various Chinese philosophies as noted by the "unafiliated".

Christianity: 351,000 (28.9%)

Buddhism: 110,000 (9%)

Judaism: 10,000 (0.8%)

Other: 100,000 (10%)*

Unaffiliated: 650,000 (51.1%)**

Another view of that:

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/state/hawaii/

Still no sign of a Federal or State mandated religion.

 

8 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

As usual, you’re combining being wrong and being far too prolix. 

There’s only one US Constitution. There are state constitutions, but they’re all subject to the federal one. That’s the one I’m talking about, the one written by the exact same people who wrote the Treaty of Tripoli. The ones who set up the entirety of American government. The ones who deliberately left god out of their government. 

And no amount of your deliberate misunderstanding, deep ignorance or pointless chatter will alter that.

—Jaylemurph 

I believe you are doing the deliberate misunderstanding, because I would not believe an academic of your caliber can misunderstand the seed of this argument. It was rather obvious that I was not claiming that my country mandates a state religion, but rather that those which formed a nation, the representatives of the states to form the union, many were very religious, and this religious heritage is represented in our monuments, on buildings, public artwork, and in official writings, both federal and state. At the time our nation was founded, an overwhelming part of our population was religious, and mostly Christian. Therefore this religious partiality was reflected in its citizens and the government representatives. It's obvious that the freedom of religion had to be made part of the law, since even within the Christian population there was separation into sects. Therefore as a compromise, freedom of religion, was agreed upon.   

We are taught American History very early on in our educational systems, therefore it is pretty much common knowledge that we have no official religion in the USA, What we have are officials that govern at the federal, state, counties, and city levels that more than likely are religious minded, and probably also opinionated towards their beliefs.

But nevertheless, you would agree that all those civil protests and lawsuits to have all Christian/religious practices and symbolism removed from public places is very real? How about all those debates of politicians running for office on religious principles? 

Dude! Religion lives and thrives in our politics and policies, through our politicians. It does not need to be in writing, yet. Written Laws have been known to change. Personally, I will never vote for a state religion, as I truly believe that we have free will, a grace from the Universal Supreme Being, my God,

And the story of Atlantis is full of state religion, Socrates'/Plato's state. Why the mere symbolism of having Egyptian priests owners of the story is most revealing to my cause.

 

[Essan]

16 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

 And what is an act of God? I mean Hawaii became a state in 1959, and they could have simply stated an act of Nature.

Act of God is a legal term, generally meaning a natural event which could not have been foreseen and/or occurred wholly outside the control of human action.  It's used in US tort law to avoid or diminish liability.

Whilst the term may have originated in the archaic belief that earthquakes, hurricanes and floods were caused specifically and deliberately by a god or gods, it does not mean that in the modern legal sense.    Any more than calling the 6th day of the week Saturday means we all worship the god Saturn.

[Polar]

10 hours ago, Swede said:

Would you now be proposing that Greenland was, at any point in relevant history, positioned at the mouth of the Nile River? Is there any end to the stupid?

.

I can't believe you, above all people here would say something like that. I never proposed that Greenland was at the mouth of the Nile river. Are you refusing to discuss this? 

Have you said anything regarding Greenland bedrock configuration, or regarding those pictures from Google earth. Nobody comments on the central region images, on the other hand this thread is flooded with pointless completely out of context opinions on all sorts of other subjects.

At least i am now sure there weren't any "glitches" back then (2007). Google did not know what to think of a + 80 Km sliced orange, nor an even larger rectangle. 

 

 

[Peter Cox]

16 hours ago, Piney said:

Grateful that they managed to steal it from it's indigenous peoples? 

 

Your failing with everyone here. 

How could he possibly be failing when he has never succeeded? lol  

Its sad. 

[+Pettytalk]

15 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

He is the only passenger of the metaphysical short bus...

To my divine being, with love and affection.

 

[+Pettytalk]

2 hours ago, Essan said:

Act of God is a legal term, generally meaning a natural event which could not have been foreseen and/or occurred wholly outside the control of human action.  It's used in US tort law to avoid or diminish liability.

Whilst the term may have originated in the archaic belief that earthquakes, hurricanes and floods were caused specifically and deliberately by a god or gods, it does not mean that in the modern legal sense.    Any more than calling the 6th day of the week Saturday means we all worship the god Saturn.

Thanks Essan, that was very informative. And as they say, one learns something new every day. But regarding Saturn, I rather favor Fridays as a day for worship, since Venus is a goddess, and I tend to favor women when it comes to worship, among other things. However you do realize that by making Saturday the 6th day of the week, you are referring to the Biblical account of God's creation of the world and the number of days it took to create it. The 6th day was God's last day of creation, and on the 7th day He rested.

 

[Hanslune]

5 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

We are taught American History very early on in our educational systems, therefore it is pretty much common knowledge that we have no official religion in the USA, What we have are officials that govern at the federal, state, counties, and city levels that more than likely are religious minded, and probably also opinionated towards their beliefs.

Then why did you not understand that until now?

 

Quote

 It does not need to be in writing, yet. Written Laws have been known to change.

It does if you want it to be official - it isn't and it ain't.

Pretty clear to me. Now have you stopped wasting your time trying to convince people otherwise of your delusion?

 

 

[Hanslune]

2 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

To my divine being, with love and affection.

 

You do know the Bible is against secular music right?

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

Enough with the bickering and insults please - don't make it personal.

[jaylemurph]

3 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Thanks Essan, that was very informative. And as they say, one learns something new every day. But regarding Saturn, I rather favor Fridays as a day for worship, since Venus is a goddess, and I tend to favor women when it comes to worship, among other things. However you do realize that by making Saturday the 6th day of the week, you are referring to the Biblical account of God's creation of the world and the number of days it took to create it. The 6th day was God's last day of creation, and on the 7th day He rested.

 

Considering your god is every bit as fictional as Freya or Saturn, I don’t think Hans’ alleged impiety will warrant much divine response.   

—Jaylemurph 

[jaylemurph]

9 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

 

I believe you are doing the deliberate misunderstanding, because I would not believe an academic of your caliber can misunderstand the seed of this argument. It was rather obvious that I was not claiming that my country mandates a state religion, but rather that those which formed a nation, the representatives of the states to form the union, many were very religious, and this religious heritage is represented in our monuments, on buildings, public artwork, and in official writings, both federal and state. At the time our nation was founded, an overwhelming part of our population was religious, and mostly Christian. Therefore this religious partiality was reflected in its citizens and the government representatives. It's obvious that the freedom of religion had to be made part of the law, since even within the Christian population there was separation into sects. Therefore as a compromise, freedom of religion, was agreed upon.   

We are taught American History very early on in our educational systems, therefore it is pretty much common knowledge that we have no official religion in the USA, What we have are officials that govern at the federal, state, counties, and city levels that more than likely are religious minded, and probably also opinionated towards their beliefs.

But nevertheless, you would agree that all those civil protests and lawsuits to have all Christian/religious practices and symbolism removed from public places is very real? How about all those debates of politicians running for office on religious principles? 

Dude! Religion lives and thrives in our politics and policies, through our politicians. It does not need to be in writing, yet. Written Laws have been known to change. Personally, I will never vote for a state religion, as I truly believe that we have free will, a grace from the Universal Supreme Being, my God,

And the story of Atlantis is full of state religion, Socrates'/Plato's state. Why the mere symbolism of having Egyptian priests owners of the story is most revealing to my cause.

 

I’m not allowing my participation in this discussion to become a springboard for your theocratic nonsense, particularly when I’m convinced it’s part of your “look at me, I’m a trickster-god” routine. 

If you had a serious, on-point rebuttal, you’d have used it, but instead you drag out this racist, sexist, homophobe bigot whose world view I take to mirror closely your own. 

I will not interact further with anyone attempting to further this POS. 

—Jaylemurph 

Edited August 21, 2019 by jaylemurph

[Swede]

 

9 hours ago, Polar said:

I can't believe you, above all people here would say something like that. I never proposed that Greenland was at the mouth of the Nile river. Are you refusing to discuss this? 

Have you said anything regarding Greenland bedrock configuration, or regarding those pictures from Google earth. Nobody comments on the central region images, on the other hand this thread is flooded with pointless completely out of context opinions on all sorts of other subjects.

At least i am now sure there weren't any "glitches" back then (2007). Google did not know what to think of a + 80 Km sliced orange, nor an even larger rectangle.

1) Then why the photographic "comparison"? What was your point?

2) The subglacial geomorphology and topography of the Greenland portion of the North American Craton is the product of many, many pre-glacial millennia of various formational and erosional processes which, while certainly interesting, have absolutely nothing to do with your fabled Atlantis. Absolutely nothing.

.

[Polar]

On 8/13/2019 at 10:18 AM, RoofGardener said:

OK then... if Plato's story was real, why is their no historic evidence of the enormous Atlantean army that ploughed through Europe, conquering all the kingdoms thereof, prior to attacking Athens ? No physical evidence. No legends, no myths, no folklore. No nothing. 

I know the question wasn't addressed to me directly, but i will give my opinion, since it is a genuine and pertinent question regarding Atlantis. Those conquests and traces left by people you referred to, if they were real at all, must have been completely buried and/or destroyed in the demise of Atlantis. 

The world after Plato's Atlantis must have been in a pretty bad shape for lack of a better word, since he explicitly says that a comet or asteroid impact influence triggered havoc across the globe.  

 

[Polar]

46 minutes ago, Swede said:

 

1) Then why the photographic "comparison"? What was your point?

2) The subglacial geomorphology and topography of the Greenland portion of the North American Craton is the product of many, many pre-glacial millennia of various formational and erosional processes which, while certainly interesting, have absolutely nothing to do with your fabled Atlantis. Absolutely nothing.

.

Google earth in 2007 forwarded images that portrayed a scary picture many identified as a volcano, a glitch, a UFO, etc... now more than 10 years on, imagery from other sources are helping better visualize what lies beneath all that ice. There is no glitch as the imagery coincide with one another. this must be important!

It is as if that imagery of the central region, back in 2007 had better definition than all of the later ones. There is a rectangular "oblong" shape, it is a fact.

Without any kind of conspiracy theory in mind, i can affirm that Google removed those images from their recorded historical imagery (time slider). They just aren't there anymore...

Nevertheless, i have saved tons of images:

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNf_t1vdynqpe1UUqYXmvlFioqpSxzDe9yBmoZW

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOlk3HZK_PV93ptLPenLdrHHNMeDOAWTNOdvWFD

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOlk3HZK_PV93ptLPenLdrHHNMeDOAWTNOdvWFD

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipPDlNdD1XTKgUdy5CykOsA4C_Gmc4Su6c4mD6dF

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Polar

[jaylemurph]

3 hours ago, Polar said:

The world after Plato's Atlantis must have been in a pretty bad shape for lack of a better word, since he explicitly says that a comet or asteroid impact influence triggered havoc across the globe.  

And the citation for this “fact” would be? Because I’ve missed this “explicit” comment every single time I’ve reviewed the text. And as far as I know, there’s not even a /word/ in Greek for “comet and/or asteroid strike.”

—Jaylemurph 

[+Pettytalk]

Atlantis is not in Spain, and definitely not in Greenland. Spain may seem to meet a couple of plausible descriptions, whereas Greenland is totally outside Plato's thoughts and details.

If anyone here wants to argue that it's just an allegory used by Plato, then they should make the case for the allegory. Counterarguments to any proposed physical location should strictly be based on the physical descriptions detailed by Plato.

And regardless of what Jaylemurph alleges, Its not a "look at me" when I state that the only place Atlantis can be is the Americas, and further, not in Plato's past, but in Plato's future.The wide and tall wall that prevents one from entertaining this very possible hypothesis is the non acceptance of the supernatural. Further, if not the supernatural, then it's a high wall of the non acceptance of other worldly beings, who have mastered time and time travel, since one or the other of these two walls must be mounted, to give the hypothesis any fair way ahead in reaching the very truth of Plato''s Atlantis.

Atlantis, besides being a real place, It's an allegory alright, but not the allegory which the recent academic world usually proposes. And although the hypothesis is easily ridiculed by those that have little or no faith in the supernatural, nor in the possibility that other worldly beings have conquered space and time, it does not negate the truth at all.

Understanding Plato's embedded clues and time-based descriptions is not for everyone. Finding Atlantis in Plato's future is really a proof of the existence of the soul and the reincarnations it goes through. 

Laugh, if you choose, but that is it, in a nutshell. The story of Atlantis was left incomplete to prove that very thing. The material physical world is not reality. The soul and the kingdom of its dwelling is the real world, the one outside the cave. And needless to say, in essence, we are not the body, but the soul within the body, each and everyone of us.

 

[+Pettytalk]

16 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Considering your god is every bit as fictional as Freya or Saturn, I don’t think Hans’ alleged impiety will warrant much divine response.   

—Jaylemurph 

Do you really think that the Divine meddles in the lowly discussions that go on here? From my understanding we will all have our day in court, whether it's for impiety or some other unjust thing. I too dread that day, as I have already tasted its bitterness in brief and before its time.

But not being at your academic level, I can only offer common sense knowledge and advice. It does not pay for anyone to taunt the Divine. Because one has nothing to gain by it, but much to lose, if there is even one chance in infinity that this God of mine is not fictional. Still, you do not understand who my God is.

Plato's Protagoras.

My wish for myself and my fellow-men is, that we may present our souls undefiled to the judge in that day; my desire in life is to be able to meet death. And I exhort you, and retort upon you the reproach which you cast upon me,–that you will stand before the judge, gaping, and with dizzy brain, and any one may box you on the ear, and do you all manner of evil. Perhaps you think that this is an old wives’ fable. But you, who are the three wisest men in Hellas, have nothing better to say, and no one will ever show that to do is better than to suffer evil. A man should study to be, and not merely to seem. If he is bad, he should become good, and avoid all flattery, whether of the many or of the few.
Follow me, then; and if you are looked down upon, that will do you no harm. And when we have practised virtue, we will betake ourselves to politics, but not until we are delivered from the shameful state of ignorance and uncertainty in which we are at present. Let us follow in the way of virtue and justice, and not in the way to which you, Callicles, invite us; for that way is nothing worth.

 

[Polar]

10 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

And the citation for this “fact” would be? Because I’ve missed this “explicit” comment every single time I’ve reviewed the text. And as far as I know, there’s not even a /word/ in Greek for “comet and/or asteroid strike.”

—Jaylemurph 

Quote

There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes;the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. There is a story, which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Paethon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after long intervals; at such times those who live upon the mountains and in dry and lofty places are more liable to destruction than those who dwell by rivers or on the seashore. And from this calamity the Nile, who is our never-failing saviour, delivers and preserves us. When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea.

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/timaeus.html

Furthermore, there is the mythological reference of Phaethon's fall:

Quote

Ovid, Metamorphoses 1. 750 ff : 

[...] But Phaethon mounted, light and young and proud, and took the reins with joy, and looking down, thanked his reluctant father for the gift. Meanwhile the four swift horses of Sol [Helios], Aethon (Blaze), Eous (Dawn), Pyrois (Fire) and Phlegon (Flame), kick at the gates, neighing and snorting fire, and Tethys [the mother of Clymene, mother of Phaethon] then, her grandson's fate undreamt, draws back the bars and makes the horses free of all the boundless heavens. Forth they go, tearing away, and cleave with beating hooves the clouds before them, and on wings outride the winds that westwards from the morning blow. But lightly weighs the yoke; the chariot moves with ease unwonted, suspect buoyancy; and like a ship at sea unballasted that pitches in the waves for lack of weight, the chariot, lacking now its usual load, bounced driverless, it seemed, in empty leaps. The horses in alarm ran wild and left the well-worn highway. Phaethon, dazed with fear, could neither use the reins nor find the road, nor were it found could make the team obey. Then first the sunbeams warmed freezing Troiones (the Bear), who sought vain refuge in forbidden seas [i.e. the Constellation Ursa was not allowed to set into the world-river Okeanos (Oceanus)]; Serpens (the Snake) that numb and harmless hitherto lay next the icy pole, roused by the heat, in newly kindled rage began to burn; Bootes (the Wagoner) too, it's said , fled in dismay, though slow and hampered by his lumbering wain.
And when poor hapless Phaethon from the height of highest heaven looked down and saw below, far, far below the continents outspread, his face grew pale, his knees in sudden fear shook, and his eyes were blind with light so bright. Would he had never touched his father's steeds, nor learnt his birth, nor won his heart's desire! Oh, to be known as Merops' son! Too late! He's swept a way as when a barque is driven before the northern gales and in despair the master leaves the helm, resigns his charge to heaven. What shall he do? The sky behind him stretches away so far; yet more in front. He measures each in turn; ahead he sees the west that fate ordains he shall not reach, then looks back to the east. Dazes and in doubt he cannot hold the reins or let them fall or even recall the horses' names. And then he sees in panic strewn across the sky monstrous gigantic shapes of beasts of prey.
There is a place in which the Scorpio's claws curve in a double arc, with tail and legs on either side crossing two signs of heaven; sweating black venom, there before his eyes, circling its tail to strike, the creature lies. His senses reel; he drops the reins aghast. And when the reins fall loose upon their backs, the horses swerve away and, unrestrained, gallop through tracts of air unknown and race headlong, out of control, running amok amid the stars fixed in the vault of heaven, hurtling the chariot where no road had run. And now they climb to highest heaven, now plunge sheer in breakneck descent down to the earth. Luna (the Moon) [Selene] with wonder sees her brother's team running below her own; the scalding clouds steam; the parched fields crack deep, all moisture dried, and every summit flames; the calcined meads lie white; the leaf dies burning with the bough and the dry corn its own destruction feeds. These are but trifles. Mighty cities burn with all their ramparts; realms and nations turn to ashes; mountains with their forests blaze. Athos is burning, Oete is on fire, and Tmolus and proud Taurus Cilix and the crest of Ide, dry whose springs were once so famed, and virgin Helicon and Haemus, still unknown, unhonoured. Aetne burns immense in twofold conflagration; Eryx flames and Othrys and Parnasos' double peaks; Cynthus and Dindyma and Mycale and Rhodope, losing at last her snows, and Mimas and Cithaeron's holy hill. Caucasus burns; the frosts of Scythia fail in her need; Pindus and Ossa blaze and, lordlier than both, Olympus flames and the airy Alpes and cloud-capped Appeninus.
Then Phaethon saw the world on every side ablaze--heat more that he could bear. He breathed vapours that burned like furnace-blasts, and felt the chariot glow white-hot beneath his feet. Cinders and sparks past bearing shoot and swirl and scorching smoke surrounds him; in the murk, the midnight murk, he knows not where he is or goes; the horses whirl him where they will. The Aethiopes (Ethiopians) then turned black, so men believe, as heat summoned their blood too near the skin. Then was Libya's dusty desert [i.e. the Sahara] formed, all water scorched away. Then the sad Nymphae (Nymphs) bewailed their pools and springs; Boeotia mourned her Dirce lost, Argos Amymone, Ephyre Pirene; nor were Flumina (Rivers) [Potamoi] safe though fortune's favour made them broad and deep and their banks far apart; in middle stream from old Peneus rose the drifting steam, from Erymanthus Phegaicus too and swift Ismenos, and Caicus Teuthranius and the Tanais; Maeander playing on his winding way; tawny Lycormas, Xanthus doomed to burn at Troy a second time; Melas Mygdonius, that sable stream; the pride of Eurotas Taenarius. Eurphrates Babylonius burned, Phasis, Hister [Danube] and Ganges were on fire, Orontes burned and racing Thermodon; Alpheus boiled, fire scorched Spercheus' banks. The gold that Tagus carried in his sands ran molten in the flames, and all the swans that used to charm the Maeonian banks with song huddled in mid Cayster sweltering. The Nilus (Nile) in terror to the world's end fled and his head, still hidden; this seven mouths gaped dusty, seven vales without a stream. The same disaster dried the Ismarian rivers, Hebrus and Strymon, dried the lordly flow of the Hesperian waters, Rhodanus (Rhode) and Rhenus (Rhine) and Padus (Po), and Thybris (Tiber), promised empire of the world. Earth everywhere splits deep and light strikes down into Tartara (the Underworld) and fills with fear Hell's Monarch (Rex Infernus) [Haides] and his consort [Persephone]; the wide seas shrink and where ocean lay a wilderness of dry sand spread; new peaks and ranges rise, long covered by the deep, and multiply the scattered islands of the Cyclades. The fishes dive, the dolphins dare no leap their curving course through the familiar air, and lifeless seals float supine on the waves; even Nereus, fathoms down, in his dark caves, with Doris and her daughters [the Nereides], felt the fire. Thrice from the waters Neptunus [Poseidon] raised his arm and frowning face; thrice fled the fiery air.
But Mother Tellus (Earth) [Gaia], encompassed by the seas, between the ocean and her shrinking streams, that cowered for refuge in her lightless womb, lifted her smothered head and raised her hand to shield her tortured face; then with a quake, a mighty tremor that convulsed the world, sinking in shallow subsidence below her wonted place, in solemn tones appealed : ‘If this thy pleasure and my due, why now, Supreme God (Summus Deum) [Zeus], lie thy dread lightnings still? If fire destroy me, let the fire be thine: my doom were lighter dealt by thy design! Scarce can my throat find voice to speak’ the smoke and heat were choking her. ‘See my singed hair! Ash in my eyes, ash on my lips so deep! Are these the fruits of my fertility? Is this for duty done the due return? That I endure the wounds of pick and plough, year-long unceasing pain, that I supply grass for the flocks and crops, sweet sustenance, for humankind and incense for you gods? But, grant my doom deserved, what have the seas deserved and shat they brother? Why shrinks that main, his charge, and form the sky so far recoils? And if no grace can save they brother now, nor me, pity thine own fair sky! Look round! See, each pole smokes; if there the fire should gain, your royal roofs will fall. Even Atlas fails, his shoulders scarce sustain the flaming sky. If land and sea, if heaven's high palaces perish, prime chaos will us all confound! Save from the flames whatever's still alive, and prove you mean Creation to survive!’
Tellus (Earth) [Gaia] could speak no more, nor more endure the fiery heat and vapour, and sank back to her deep caverns next the Manes (Ghosts of the Underworld). But the Almighty Father (Pater Omnipotens) [Zeus], calling the gods and him who gave the chariot to attest creation doomed were now his aid not given, mounted the highest citadel of heaven, whence he was wont to veil the lands with clouds and roll his thunders and his lightnings hurl. But then no clouds had he the lands to veil, nor rain to send from heaven to soothe their pain. He thundered; and poising high his bolt to blast, struck Phaethon from the chariot and from life, and fire extinguished fire and flame quenched flame. The horses in wild panic leapt apart, burst from the traces and flung off the yoke, there lies the reins, the sundered axle there, here the spokes dangle from a shattered wheel, and far and wide the signs of wreckage fly. And Phaethon, flames ravaging his auburn hair, falls headlong down, a streaming trail of light, as sometimes through the cloudless vault of night a star, though never falling, seems to fall. Eridanus receives him, far from home, in his wide waters half a world away. And bathes his burning face.
The Naides Hesperiae (Hesperian Naiads) bury his smouldering body in a tomb and on a stone engrave this epitaph : ‘Here Phaethon lies, his father's charioteer; great was his fall, yet did he greatly dare.’ His father, sick with grief, had hidden his face, shrouded in misery, an, if the tale is true, one day went by without the Sun. The flaming fires gave light--some gain at least in that disaster. Clymene, distraught with sorrow, said whatever could be said in woes so terrible and beat her breast, and roamed the world to find his lifeless limbs and then his bones, and found his bones at last buried beside a foreign river-bank. And, prostrate there, she drenched in tears his name carved in the marble and hugged it to her breast. His sister's too, the three Heliades, wept sad tears, their futile tribute to the dead, and long lay prostrate on their brother's tomb, bruising their breasts and calling day and night Phaethon who never more would hear their moans. Four times the waxing crescent of the moon had filled her orb, in their wonted way, wailing was now their wont, they made lament . . . [The Heliades were then transformed into amber-crying poplar-trees and Phaethon's friend Kyknos (Cycnus) into a swan.]
Sol [Helios] meanwhile, dishevelled, his bright sheen subdued as in the gloom of an eclipse, loathing himself, loathing the light, the day, gives way to grief, and, grief rising to rage, denies his duty to the world. ‘Enough,’ he cries, ‘Since time began my lot has brought no rest, no respite. I resent this toil, unending toil, unhonoured drudgery. Let someone else take out my chariot that bears my sunbeams, or, if no one will, and all the gods confess they can't, let Jove [Zeus] drive it, and, as he wrestles with the reins, there'll be a while at least when he won't wield his bolt to rob a father of his son; and, when he's tried the fiery-footed team and learnt their strength, he'll know no one should die for failing to control them expertly.’
Then all the deities surround Sol [Helios] and beg him and beseech him not to shroud the world in darkness. Juppiter [Zeus], indeed, defends his fiery bolt and adds his royal threats. So Sol [Helios] took in hand his maddened team, still terrified, and whipped them savagely, whipped them and cursed them for their guilt that they destroyed his son, their master, that dire day."

https://www.theoi.com/Titan/Phaethon.html

[Piney]

3 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

And regardless of what Jaylemurph alleges, Its not a "look at me" when I state that the only place Atlantis can be is the Americas, and further, not in Plato's past, but in Plato's future.The wide and tall wall that prevents one from entertaining this very possible hypothesis is the non acceptance of the supernatural. Further, if not the supernatural, then it's a high wall of the non acceptance of other worldly beings, who have mastered time and time travel, since one or the other of these two walls must be mounted, to give the hypothesis any fair way ahead in reaching the very truth of Plato''s Atlantis.

Many accept other worldy power. Just not the nonsense you spout.

So I will ask you again. Where does the Native American genocide fit in your "divinely? ordained kingdom"?