Plato´s Atlantis was in a River Delta

[+Pettytalk]

It is quite amazing how silly people can be. They cannot see past their noses, and yet claim to be able to see for miles and miles. If a very large, wide, and tall landmass with many high mountains is standing in front of your ship, I would imagine that it would pose a much more formidable, impenetrable, and impassible obstacle than a little floating shoal of sand/mud it raised up from its subsidence, and which this mud/sand would soon settle back down from whence it rose, leaving the passage open.

Therefore, as far as the Atlantic not being navigable in "those" days, is precisely what I have proposed that Plato meant. Crossing the Atlantic in those days means the time period of Columbus' crossing wit the three caravels, an the time afterwards, when it became routine for sailing across the Atlantic ocean from the old to the new world, and beyond, to get to those other islands in the Pacific ocean from which one can get to the true boundless continent, the modern-day Eurasia and Africa continent, which is really only one boundless landmass, considering that it is all attached, as Herodotus pointed out. And which is "the" biggest continent on earth, and when put together with the Americas, and those other islands in the Pacific surround the "true" ocean, the Pacific, which is designated as the largest ocean on earth. The ring of fire would be a good representation of the boundless continent surrounding the True ocean, our Pacific. Think about "earthquakes", as Plato hinted.

Plato's Critias: It was stated that this city of ours was in command of the one side and fought through the whole of the war, and in command of the other side were the kings of the island of Atlantis, which we said was an island larger than Libya and Asia once upon a time, but now lies sunk by earthquakes....

But then I suppose that some clever gent or lady here will ask, how did Plato know about plate tectonics and the Ring of fire?

Of course, one must be able to grasp the intent and designation of making the item/subject in discussion the superlative. Because when there are more than one, and one wants to point out the best or the biggest, it is usually addressed as "The" or "True" something, or someone. In our case, the "True" boundless continent is Eurasia, and the "True" ocean is the Pacific.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Pettytalk
add images to aid the verbal.

[Tom1200]

16 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Actually, there's not any primary source documentation (other than the Bible) of a preacher named Jesus.  However, there is primary source documentation (other than the Koran) of Muuhammad,  And I'm actually considering any time period before 2400 BC (an arbitrary cutoff point) mainly because after that time period there were so many literate cultures that an empire like Atlantis would have appeared in a lot of written documentation.

There were lots of Jesuses Jesuss Jesus's blokes called Jesus in Judea at the time.¹  And we can conjecture that there were lots of preachers at the time.²  It seems highly likely to me there were many preachers called Jesus, whether they made it into the history books or not.  Anyway, what counts as a preacher?  Perhaps he just got up on stage on the Sabbath and talked a bit about love and compassion - does that count as preaching?  

Besides - there are accepted references to Jesus / Christ in Roman records about the time, e.g. Tacitus.³  I don't know what a real historian would class as a primary source document, but there seems little doubt that a chap called Jesus went around 'preaching'; and in doing so annoyed the authorities so much that he got himself crucified for his efforts.

¹ http://yeshuaincontext.com/2011/03/jewish-names-in-galilee-and-judea/

² Monty Python - The Life of Brian

³ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

[Unusual Tournament]

5 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

I'd say your memory is terrible:

Form Timaeus - "and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea."

cormac

Cities do disappear into the sea. 

[Unusual Tournament]

12 hours ago, Kenemet said:

But you're spoiling my fun!!!  Given enough time,I could probably make a case for the Marianas Trench or Andromeda Galaxy.  Or possibly one of the exoplanets.

No need. Ancient landmarks known to Plato cannot be accurately identified now days. Atlantis was primarily a sea fearing nation at war with Athens. Save the rocket ship and take your pick of destroyed ancient cities engulfed by the sea within or around the Mediterranean. Add a legend or two and Bob's your uncle.  

Edited September 16, 2019 by Captain Risky

[RoofGardener]

8 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Cities do disappear into the sea. 

I wish this thread would !

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, RoofGardener said:

I wish this thread would !

Dont kid yourself. You love Atlantis. 

[RoofGardener]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

Dont kid yourself. You love Atlantis. 

No, I don't. 

I just love shoals ! 

[Unusual Tournament]

17 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Why 1500 BC? Athens didn't even become important until AFTER 1400 BC as part of the Mycenaean Civilization and there was no civilization anywhere near the Iberian Peninsula with whom the Mycenaeans were at war, let alone whom they defeated.

cormac

How do you know that? Athens could have very well have been code for all of Greece. Stories lose in the telling of time. This could very well have been a Mycenaean Vs. a foreign power. Maybe it was the Minoans. Some civilisation in Malta, Sardinia, Souther Spain or even North Africa.  

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

No, I don't. 

I just love shoals ! 

So you keep reminding us all. 

[Unusual Tournament]

5 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

No one believes Critias was true but not Timaeus. You're making things up again. Sunk means BELOW the waves which means that Atlantis' destruction would have prevented ships from sailing over and around where it had been. 

cormac

Define true? All great historical stories are based in some truth. All legends are based in some truth. All religions are based in some truth. All history is based in some truth. All but it seems Atlantis. 

[RoofGardener]

7 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Define true? All great historical stories are based in some truth. All legends are based in some truth. All religions are based in some truth. All history is based in some truth. All but it seems Atlantis. 

That's because there is no historical context to the Atlantis fable. No folklore of huge invading armies. No legends. No Myths, and certainly no physical evidence. In summary.. no history. 

Oh.. and no shoals, much to my BITTER disappointment.  

[Peter Cox]

31 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

No need. Ancient landmarks known to Plato cannot be accurately identified now days. Atlantis was primarily a sea fearing nation at war with Athens. Save the rocket ship and take your pick of destroyed ancient cities engulfed by the sea within or around the Mediterranean. Add a legend or two and Bob's your uncle.  

Explain how a "civilization" that was 12000 years ago (and was destroyed around that time) was at war with a city that only existed 3400 years ago?

Edited September 16, 2019 by Peter Cox

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, Peter Cox said:

Explain how a "civilization" that was 12000 years ago (and was destroyed around that time) was at war with a city that only existed 3400 years ago?

Probably a mistranslation. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

7 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Probably a mistranslation. 

Dude, we can read Plato in the original Hellenic, so I can’t see how there’s a mistranslation there.

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Dude, we can read Plato in the original Hellenic, so I can’t see how there’s a mistranslation there.

Did you ever consider that Plato might have borrowed parts of the story from other stories or legends? 

[Unusual Tournament]

Plato did the very same with the Ring of Gyges. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Gyges

[Hanslune]

3 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Dude, we can read Plato in the original Hellenic, so I can’t see how there’s a mistranslation there.

Isn't it lovely - and really really useful - to go over, and over the same points endlessly?

[jaylemurph]

4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

How do you know that? Athens could have very well have been code for all of Greece. Stories lose in the telling of time. This could very well have been a Mycenaean Vs. a foreign power. Maybe it was the Minoans. Some civilisation in Malta, Sardinia, Souther Spain or even North Africa.  

There was no concept if a geo-political entity called “Greece” in the ancient Mediterranean. People sharing a general Greek cultured lived from Iberia to Anatolia, with different home cities, histories and even languages, but they had no single nation-state in the modern sense, as you use above. 

—Jaylemurph 

[atalante]

5 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

How do you know that? Athens could have very well have been code for all of Greece. Stories lose in the telling of time. This could very well have been a Mycenaean Vs. a foreign power. Maybe it was the Minoans. Some civilisation in Malta, Sardinia, Souther Spain or even North Africa.  

The ancient Egyptian name (i.e. codeword) for Mycenaean Greece was Tanaju, which could have been explained to classical era Greeks, using a vocalization similar to the name Athena.

  https://www.academia.edu/221955/The_Egyptian_Interest_in_Mycenaean_Greece

Edited September 16, 2019 by atalante

[cormac mac airt]

4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Did you ever consider that Plato might have borrowed parts of the story from other stories or legends? 

Then the story as written is not Atlantis, it’s a mashup of places, times and events. Which makes it a fools errand to attempt to find one place called Atlantis. Imagine that. 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

It really comes down to this IMO, either Plato knows what he’s talking about which is nowhere in evidence or he doesn’t in which case the story has been made up either completely or in part. In either case only a fool pretends to know what Plato “really” meant as all there is to go on is what he said. 

cormac

[Hanslune]

34 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

It really comes down to this IMO, either Plato knows what he’s talking about which is nowhere in evidence or he doesn’t in which case the story has been made up either completely or in part. In either case only a fool pretends to know what Plato “really” meant as all there is to go on is what he said. 

cormac

Edited September 16, 2019 by Hanslune

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, atalante said:

The ancient Egyptian name (i.e. codeword) for Mycenaean Greece was Tanaju, which could have been explained to classical era Greeks, using a vocalization similar to the name Athena.

  https://www.academia.edu/221955/The_Egyptian_Interest_in_Mycenaean_Greece

Thanks. That’s right. More than likely a cultural identifier.

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Then the story as written is not Atlantis, it’s a mashup of places, times and events. Which makes it a fools errand to attempt to find one place called Atlantis. Imagine that. 

cormac

More than likely it is. Plato’s done it before and so have many other ancient Greek writers.  It still doesn’t change the fact that somewhere out there is Atlantis or the inspiration for Atlantis.

[cormac mac airt]

57 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

More than likely it is. Plato’s done it before and so have many other ancient Greek writers.  It still doesn’t change the fact that somewhere out there is Atlantis or the inspiration for Atlantis.

You were doing ok until the bold part. Atlantis according to whom? Certainly NOT Plato. And if it's not Plato then by what authority does anyone have to claim any location as Atlantis?

cormac

Edited September 16, 2019 by cormac mac airt
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