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Still Waters

Humans aren’t designed to be happy

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RabidMongoose
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

To live life for the sake of pleasure is to be enslaved by it. All things in fine measure. To constantly seek pleasure is no different than being a drug addict. Discipline is freedom. I also don't believe in any god/s/ess's either. 

God created you to receive pleasure from him.

By denying yourself pleasure then you have disconnected yourself from God.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

God created you to receive pleasure from him.

By denying yourself pleasure then you have disconnected yourself from God.

God doesn't exist. So I neither gain nor lose anything. Accepting the god-idea would be lying to myself and a poor excuse to be a self-indulging jerk to everyone. No different than narcissistic self-glorification.

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spartan max2
58 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Our society tells us enjoying pleasure is wrong, enjoying material objects is wrong, being selfish and self-centred is wrong, dominating others is wrong, etc.

Society does not dictate a universal morality, God does. So let me ask, do you really believe God wants us to deny ourselves pleasure? Or are you bright enough to see that way of thinking is imposed onto you so that they can make themselves feel better over their lack of things?

I'm more stuck on this dominating thing.

So in essence, you believe that there is a God and that he wants you to expierence pleasure, even when it's at the expense of the pleasure of others?

 

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RabidMongoose
48 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

God doesn't exist. So I neither gain nor lose anything. Accepting the god-idea would be lying to myself and a poor excuse to be a self-indulging jerk to everyone. No different than narcissistic self-glorification.

I wholly refuse your assertion that self-indulgence is immoral.

Why should we live as Spartans in a world of aplenty? Lets enjoy ourselves as much as possible.

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RabidMongoose
1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

I'm more stuck on this dominating thing.

So in essence, you believe that there is a God and that he wants you to experience pleasure, even when it's at the expense of the pleasure of others?

God wants me to dominate others, and to enjoy that pleasure.

Society tells me dominating others is wrong because it makes them feel angry, and stressed, and that makes them resentful towards me. As its not illegal to dominate others, I put God before society.

And God rewards me by frequently giving me the promotions and positions of responsibility instead of them.

Whats that about you might ask? Reality is wired up backwards. 

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XenoFish
13 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I wholly refuse your assertion that self-indulgence is immoral.

Why should we live as Spartans in a world of aplenty? Lets enjoy ourselves as much as possible.

I don't care if you think my opinion is flawed. How long do you think you'll be able to keep chugging down 3 monster energy drinks and 2 latte's before the negative effects start kicking in? I find discipline to be the greatest freedom in life. 

5 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

God wants me to dominate others, and to enjoy that pleasure.

Society tells me dominating others is wrong because it makes them feel angry, and stressed, and that makes them resentful towards me. As its not illegal to dominate others, I put God before society.

And God rewards me by frequently giving me the promotions and positions of responsibility instead of them.

Whats that about you might ask? Reality is wired up backwards. 

Now you know why you're hated at work and no one likes you. It's a power trip to you. So all you're doing is using god to justify your ego driven desires. You are weak. 

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RabidMongoose
34 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I don't care if you think my opinion is flawed. How long do you think you'll be able to keep chugging down 3 monster energy drinks and 2 latte's before the negative effects start kicking in? I find discipline to be the greatest freedom in life. 

Now you know why you're hated at work and no one likes you. It's a power trip to you. So all you're doing is using god to justify your ego driven desires. You are weak. 

Why does me saying your opinion is flawed provoke an emotional response?

You have something to integrate from your shadow there.

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spartan max2
48 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

God wants me to dominate others, and to enjoy that pleasure.

Society tells me dominating others is wrong because it makes them feel angry, and stressed, and that makes them resentful towards me. As its not illegal to dominate others, I put God before society.

And God rewards me by frequently giving me the promotions and positions of responsibility instead of them.

Whats that about you might ask? Reality is wired up backwards. 

Does God not want those you are dominating to be happy?

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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

You have something to integrate from your shadow there. Like your desire to be a complete sociopath? 

 

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Does God not want those you are dominating to be happy?

Do you mean 'those being dominated?'

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RabidMongoose
5 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Does God not want those you are dominating to be happy?

Reality is relative to each person, not objective and existing independently from us.

God wants (in each persons instance of reality) for them to dominate others, and to enjoy doing so. At the level of the individual your purpose is simply to enjoy all pleasures that God provides.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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spartan max2
1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

Reality is relative to each person, not objective and existing independently from us.

God wants (in each persons instance of reality) for them to dominate others, and to enjoy doing so.

 

Well with that logic,

 

Maybe God wants them to dominate you? 

Perhaps why they get the promotions lol

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Desertrat56
On 9/21/2019 at 6:05 AM, XenoFish said:

So become the jerk at work because you're unhappy. Yeah, totally makes sense.What better way to feel good about yourself than being a totally jerk.

You don't have to be a jerk, but you can stand up for yourself and point out that the other is being a jerk without using foul language or anger tones.  A question usually works quite well.  "I don't understand, can you rephrase what you just said?"

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RabidMongoose
1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Well with that logic,

Maybe God wants them to dominate you? 

Perhaps why they get the promotions lol

But thats just it, in their instance of reality he actually does.

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spartan max2
14 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

But thats just it, in their instance of reality he actually does.

Well that's convenient lol. 

Well I recommend talking to a therapist to work through your resentment towards the world that seems to be manifesting into some sort of odd ego driven spiritualism.

I mean no disrespect ( or maybe God wants me to be disrespectful to you lol) just a honest thought.

Good day to you. 

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RabidMongoose
21 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You don't have to be a jerk, but you can stand up for yourself and point out that the other is being a jerk without using foul language or anger tones.  A question usually works quite well.  "I don't understand, can you rephrase what you just said?"

This isn't about being or not being a jerk.

I have strayed into a mixture of Jungian psychology combined with mysticism where I have pointed out there are too sides to a human being - good and evil.

Our parenting, religion, and socialisation, taught us some things in us were good and some were bad. The good ones we embraced and are conscious of them. The bad ones we repressed down into the dark depths of our unconscious where they rarely see the light of day. We did it to appease our parents, our religious community, and our society. Basically, we wanted to see ourselves as special and be accepted.

Jungian psychology is about integrating the dark side (the shadow, or what we repressed) back into our consciousness. He argued that those aspects of reality we dont like are founded upon what we repressed into our shadow. His view is that reality is structured off them, so they drag experiences into our lives to make us embrace and re-integrate our dark sides.

In essence we are living inside a feedback loop which makes us suffer until we have become both good and evil. That means dissolving the shadow by re-integrating it back into our consciousness. 

The view that someone should aim to be a model citizen who is always good to others has not come from God. It is societal propaganda we are inducted with to make us supress our true nature for the benefit of society. It puts us at odds with the way reality works.

By repressing our evil side (because our parents, religion, and society, tell us too) the feedback loop we are living in keeps sending us evil people who do bad things to us. You do not fix it by `standing up for yourself` as it will just send more of the same your way. Instead you fix it by becoming what the universe is throwing at you.

It is throwing at you in the form of negative life experiences those aspects of your true nature (your evil side) that you have repressed. Likewise if you are evil and build a shadow from everything considered good then as an evil person you keep attracting what is good into your life as a punishment to make you embrace that side of your nature.

The aim is to gain wisdom of good and evil (as opposed to just one of them).

Edited by RabidMongoose

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XenoFish
23 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You don't have to be a jerk, but you can stand up for yourself and point out that the other is being a jerk without using foul language or anger tones.  A question usually works quite well.  "I don't understand, can you rephrase what you just said?"

Why are you directing this towards me. My comment is directed towards rabids self indulgent attitude. Where he's basically the jerk at work.

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Desertrat56
21 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

This isn't about being or not being a jerk.

I have strayed into a mixture of Jungian psychology combined with mysticism where I have pointed out there are too sides to a human being - good and evil.

Our parenting, religion, and socialisation, taught us some things in us were good and some were bad. The good ones we embraced and are conscious of them. The bad ones we repressed down into the dark depths of our unconscious where they rarely see the light of day. We did it to appease our parents, our religious community, and our society. Basically, we wanted to see ourselves as special and be accepted.

Jungian psychology is about integrating the dark side (the shadow, or what we repressed) back into our consciousness. He argued that those aspects of reality we dont like are founded upon what we repressed into our shadow. His view is that reality is structured off them, so they drag experiences into our lives to make us embrace and re-integrate our dark sides.

In essence we are living inside a feedback loop which makes us suffer until we have become both good and evil. That means dissolving the shadow by re-integrating it back into our consciousness. 

The view that someone should aim to be a model citizen who is always good to others has not come from God. It is societal propaganda we are inducted with to make us supress our true nature for the benefit of society. It puts us at odds with the way reality works.

By repressing our evil side (because our parents, religion, and society, tell us too) the feedback loop we are living in keeps sending us evil people who do bad things to us. You do not fix it by `standing up for yourself` as it will just send more of the same your way. Instead you fix it by becoming what the universe is throwing at you.

It is throwing at you in the form of negative life experiences those aspects of your true nature (your evil side) that you have repressed. Likewise if you are evil and build a shadow from everything considered good then as an evil person you keep attracting what is good into your life as a punishment to make you embrace that side of your nature.

The aim is to gain wisdom of good and evil (as opposed to just one of them).

OK.  I get what you were saying.  I was responding to the Xenofish's comment.  I don't agree with how you describe you are embracing your dark/bad side but I agree that ignoring it causes more problems than embracing it.  And my opinion of how we embrace our so called dark side is to examine the emotions that are evoked or that evoke the desire to act in an anti social way.  Sometimes pretending like anger is not allowed can cause an angry person to be quite a jerk and in their mind they are still pretending like they are fine and everyone else is wrong.  So, in the moment the anger is addressed and the old anger is examined and perhaps expressed or discharged in some way.  (scream therapy seems crazy but maybe it could be a release of old anger that causes disfuntion, I don't know, those who I have seen use it don't seem to be helped by it). 

Because of our socialization we allow ourselves to be manipulated by passive aggressive people who claim to be nice but are actually quite rude.  (which causes unresolved anger)  Like someone who uses guilt to convince another to do something they don't want to do.  I know everyone can think of a circumstance that fits that category.  And we are taught that we are not allowed to say no, that saying no is wrong, when in fact it often is the best answer.  That need to be "nice" all the time also allows narcissists to walk all over everyone so more narcissists are bred and never or rarely discouraged, by the time someone confronts them they are so angry they can be accused of being crazy.  Almost all american "sit-coms" use a narcissistic character for laughs and that is weak and lazy.  I have seen very few sit-coms that don't do this and only one that was funny because the narcissist/autistic character was put in his place at least once an episode and allowed to grow emotionally along with the other characters in the show.  We have a problem of thinking television portrays real life, but it doesn't.  It is social programming.  LIke church was in the olden days and public school still is. 

Right and wrong are subjective at best.  Yes, there are things we consider universal wrongs, but we always have exceptions to those and every society has different exceptions.

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Desertrat56
30 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Why are you directing this towards me. My comment is directed towards rabids self indulgent attitude. Where he's basically the jerk at work.

My comment is directed at you because what you said triggered it.  It does seem like he is describing a self indulgent attitude and I don't agree that is actually embracing your dark side.   I think embracing is not the right word, and I did just write a long response to him.  Integration would be a more appropriate action than embrace.

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spartan max2
12 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

My comment is directed at you because what you said triggered it.  It does seem like he is describing a self indulgent attitude and I don't agree that is actually embracing your dark side.   I think embracing is not the right word, and I did just write a long response to him.  Integration would be a more appropriate action than embrace.

I feel you haven't read all his post in each thread to know what Xeno is referring to.

Working to "dominate" those around you is not considered narissistic or being a jerk to you?

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Desertrat56
3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I feel you haven't read all his post in each thread to know what Xeno is referring to.

Working to "dominate" those around you is not considered narissistic or being a jerk to you?

I did read his posts about his interpretation of Jungian psycology and his actions at work and I agree that dominating someone is being a jerk and it could be narcissistic.  And he claimed he was standing up jerk co-workers.  I also read his interpretation of the reaction people have to being dominated, they either feel bad or dominate someone else to feel better.  That probably is accurate and very narcissistic.  That is why I pointed out that standing up to a person trying to control you is better than reacting to it.   

Maybe you misunderstand my response to Xeonfish.  I was adding to what he said, not disputing it.  What he said triggered what I added.  I agree with him and I think I said so in my response to rabidmongoose.

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Rlyeh
2 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I'm more stuck on this dominating thing.

So in essence, you believe that there is a God and that he wants you to expierence pleasure, even when it's at the expense of the pleasure of others?

No wonder God was pro-slavery.

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XenoFish
20 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I did read his posts about his interpretation of Jungian psycology and his actions at work and I agree that dominating someone is being a jerk and it could be narcissistic.  And he claimed he was standing up jerk co-workers.  I also read his interpretation of the reaction people have to being dominated, they either feel bad or dominate someone else to feel better.  That probably is accurate and very narcissistic.  That is why I pointed out that standing up to a person trying to control you is better than reacting to it.   

Maybe you misunderstand my response to Xeonfish.  I was adding to what he said, not disputing it.  What he said triggered what I added.  I agree with him and I think I said so in my response to rabidmongoose.

You really must not have read a lot of his post. He hates the poor and homeless, thinks he needs to indulge in pleasure because that's "God's Will", and often complains that people at work don't like him. The picture he paints of himself is that of a jerk. Then his thread about embracing his dark side, instead as you correctly said, integration. Shows that he's just not a nice person to be around.

Edited by XenoFish

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Desertrat56
7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You really must not have read a lot of his post. He hates the poor and homeless, thinks he needs to indulge in pleasure because that's "God's Will", and often complains that people at work don't like him. The picture he paints of himself is that of a jerk. Then his thread about embracing his dark side, instead as you correctly said, integration. Shows that he's just not a nice person to be around.

I did read some of that.  But that was not today.  I have a hard time going back pages to catch up and so maybe my comments aren't always in time with everything.  I think he is using his interpretation of something he read by Jung and his imagination of god to justify bad behaviour.

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RabidMongoose
33 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I feel you haven't read all his post in each thread to know what Xeno is referring to.

Working to "dominate" those around you is not considered narissistic or being a jerk to you?

Again, our parents and religion and society mould us into what they consider acceptable.

We are taught it is wrong to dominate others so into our shadow it goes. We distance ourselves from it because we look to our parents, religion, and society, for our sense of personal value. We fear invalidation from them. The result is that we are no longer able to acknowledge how that side of our nature exists.

In the meantime whenever we come across someone dominating others we project onto them that they must be narcissistic or a jerk. From your replies I can tell you that you have repressed the dominating side of yourself into your shadow. You are living a lie by denying your true nature to yourself.

What are you afraid off? That someone will think you are a bad person from dominating others?

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RabidMongoose
19 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You really must not have read a lot of his post. He hates the poor and homeless, thinks he needs to indulge in pleasure because that's "God's Will", and often complains that people at work don't like him. The picture he paints of himself is that of a jerk. Then his thread about embracing his dark side, instead as you correctly said, integration. Shows that he's just not a nice person to be around.

Utterly repressed lol

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