Iran has seized a British oil tanker

[+and-then]

6 hours ago, Setton said:

You mean like they have been in Iraq for the past month? 

Aware of those raids, are you?  No Iraqi civvies dead just Iranian troops and their paid militias.  Oh, and a quite large amount of ordnance and infrastructure.  Have you wondered about why the IAF is striking inside Iraq instead of all those raids into Syria over the past couple of years?  Suleimani finally decided he couldn't hide from or defeat the IAF and it was a waste of resources to keep trying so he pulled that effort of building and equipping far back from the front.  Now he's learning that you can't retreat far enough against stealthy air strikes.

[Setton]

16 minutes ago, and then said:

I see.  Thanks for pulling that post.  I did in fact say essentially that I didn't care if if was FF.  I won't bother explaining why because it's a waste of effort with you but there is a large difference between wanting to crush the head of a regime that will someday soon threaten the whole planet and being willful in desiring the suffering of innocent Iranians.  I had a good friend many years ago who was Iranian American.  He was a great guy and a good friend.  I don't see the people there as collateral damage or hindrances nor do I consider most of them to be enemies of America.  

If you were representative of Britons maybe we should reassess that relationship.  But you don't represent Britons other than yourself and whatever circle of Prog Brits you hang with.  To a coward's way of thinking and a servile man's deliberations, "warmongering" is the word that other men call courage.  Courage to stand against threats against those they love.  But I guess you'd have to care about something beyond yourself to understand that. 

It's not courage to put your countrymen at risk, hiding behind better men, to satisfy your own ego. 

It's cowardice and treason. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Setton

[Setton]

2 minutes ago, and then said:

Aware of those raids, are you?  No Iraqi civvies dead just Iranian troops and their paid militias.  

1 civilian dead and 29 injured in Baghdad. 

I do hope you're proud of yourself. Their blood is as good as on your hands. 

[DarkHunter]

46 minutes ago, Setton said:

Local 'Iraqi' (in name only), troops that receive all their funding from Iran, equipped by Iran, who swear loyalty to the supreme leader of Iran (not the Iraqi PM), many of whom belong to groups which far predate ISIS and have been killing western soldiers since 2003?

Yes, that would be them. 

The PMF is supposed to be something like 100,000 strong. At least half of those will jump to do Iran's bidding (or just what they guess it might be). 

I see you did some more research and analysis again, which seems to be the first thing you find that you think proves your point without actually checking if it does.  

Those PMF you mention are a rather loose organization made up of about 40 to 60 different militia groups numbering between 100,000 and 150,000.  About 20,000 to 40,000 are Sunni and/or Turkomen and receive training, funding, and equipment by Turkey and are loyal to Turkey.

The remaining is mostly Shia but their loyalty is split three different ways, one group loyal to Khamenei, one loyal to al-Sistani, and one loyal to al-Sadr.  Sistani and Sadr are Iraqi by the way.

Ultimately the PMF loyal to Iran is probably around 20,000 to 40,000 but I havent had the time to really do the research to find out.

But once again you have shown that you are incapable of doing real research especially when it goes against your opinion.

Should mention the equipment of the PMF is generally nothing heavier then lmgs and mortars.

Edited August 23, 2019 by DarkHunter

[+and-then]

37 minutes ago, Setton said:

1 civilian dead and 29 injured in Baghdad. 

I do hope you're proud of yourself. Their blood is as good as on your hands. 

There have been no attacks in Baghdad.  The facilities are not being placed their among civilians but I'm sure Iran will do as soon as they know they are firmly in control of the country.  It's a big, ugly world out there kid.  People die horrible deaths every day and always have done.  We disagree on the politics and you see my country as a far greater risk than the religious zealots in Iran.  I think you may have an obsession about America.  That kind of pleases me, TBH.  Nasty, angry people deserve to stew in their own juices.  Cheerio!

[Setton]

7 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

I see you did some more research and analysis again, which seems to be the first thing you find that you think proves your point without actually checking if it does.  

Those PMF you mention are a rather loose organization made up of about 40 to 60 different militia groups numbering between 100,000 and 150,000.  About 20,000 to 40,000 are Sunni and/or Turkomen and receive training, funding, and equipment by Turkey and are loyal to Turkey.

The remaining is mostly Shia but their loyalty is split three different ways, one group loyal to Khamenei, one loyal to al-Sistani, and one loyal to al-Sadr.  Sistani and Sadr are Iraqi by the way.

Ultimately the PMF loyal to Iran is probably around 20,000 to 40,000 but I havent had the time to really do the research to find out.

But once again you have shown that you are incapable of doing real research especially when it goes against your opinion.

Should mention the equipment of the PMF is generally nothing heavier then lmgs and mortars.

I really didn't have to look anything further up. 

The TMF (Sunni) are not part of the PMF. Yes, not all the PMF is Iranian aligned (hence my saying half would do what Iran says). Your estimates for PMF numbers are exaggerated. Sadr may be Iraqi but he's against all outside interference. If Israel is violating Iraqi sovereignty, he'll work with the Iranian groups. Your understanding of PMF equipment is also very outdated. Since 2016, they have effectively been part of the Iraqi state and have access to almost all the (mostly US provided) arsenal. 

These are not some farmers in a field who've just picked up a weapon. They are well trained, fanatically loyal, poorly disciplined troops. Which is not a good mix for anyone. 

[Setton]

7 hours ago, and then said:

There have been no attacks in Baghdad.  The facilities are not being placed their among civilians but I'm sure Iran will do as soon as they know they are firmly in control of the country.  It's a big, ugly world out there kid.  People die horrible deaths every day and always have done.  We disagree on the politics and you see my country as a far greater risk than the religious zealots in Iran.  I think you may have an obsession about America.  That kind of pleases me, TBH.  Nasty, angry people deserve to stew in their own juices.  Cheerio!

You really haven't a clue what you're talking about. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2019/08/blast-strikes-military-base-iraqs-baghdad-190814055051837.html

[DarkHunter]

53 minutes ago, Setton said:

I really didn't have to look anything further up. 

The TMF (Sunni) are not part of the PMF. Yes, not all the PMF is Iranian aligned (hence my saying half would do what Iran says). Your estimates for PMF numbers are exaggerated. Sadr may be Iraqi but he's against all outside interference. If Israel is violating Iraqi sovereignty, he'll work with the Iranian groups. Your understanding of PMF equipment is also very outdated. Since 2016, they have effectively been part of the Iraqi state and have access to almost all the (mostly US provided) arsenal. 

These are not some farmers in a field who've just picked up a weapon. They are well trained, fanatically loyal, poorly disciplined troops. Which is not a good mix for anyone. 

You really need to start doing even the most basic research, it's just making you look bad at this point.

"Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi has approved the appointment of 40,000 Sunni fighters to the Popular Mobilization Units, a force that was once almost exclusively Shiite."

https://web.archive.org/web/20160401040009/http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/01/iraq-sunnis-join-shiite-popular-mobilization-forces.html

So you saying that the Sunnj forces arent PMF is wrong.

As for the numbers of the PMF loyal to Iran while this isnt all of them these are the bigger groups.  First there is Badr which depending on the source has between 10,000 and 50,000.  Badr claims to have 50,000 but outside sources seem to put it closer to 10,000.  Then there is Kataib Hezbollah which claims to have 30,000 but outside sources put closer to 400.  Finishing out the large militias there is Harakat Hezbollah al Nujaba with 9,000 and Kataib Sayyad al Shuhada with 2,000.

Adding up those larger militias puts the number of Iran backing militia between 21,400 and 91,000 but Badr and Kataib Hezbollah are almost certainly inflating their numbers.  Of course that isnt all of the militia groups but it seems most of the groups either get counted among the larger groups or only number in the tens to low hundreds at most.

One thing I do specifically like about your post is how you say Sadr is against outside influence in Iraq but will aid Iran if Israel attacks Iran within Iraq but will have no problem with Iran building what would be large military bases within Iraq to strike Israel which would also be violating Iraqi sovereignty, then again you never let facts get in the way of what you believed before so why start now.

Lastly there is the matter of equipment, seems you missed the part where I said generally which isnt surprising given how you ignore anything that doesnt prop up your unfounded beliefs.  Even then having a handful of tanks and a few Humvees and other lightly armored vehicles doesnt really suggest a heavily armed force.  

[DarkHunter]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

You really haven't a clue what you're talking about. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2019/08/blast-strikes-military-base-iraqs-baghdad-190814055051837.html

Except it seems that the explosion was caused by a fire.  The Iraqi government is doing an investigation but so far they havent said anything to counter the fire explanation yet.

"A police source said the fire was probably caused by negligence leading to poor storage conditions and high temperatures. The Interior Ministry ordered an investigation."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1V21UV

But once again why bother to do research when you can just assume you are right and know what you are talking about cause it props up your own opinions better.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

12 hours ago, and then said:

The Temple mount was captured 50 years ago and under Jewish control, Muslims seem to be the ONLY faith group that is allowed to pray there.  Go figure...

In Al-Aqsa only Muslims can pray, as in any mosque. But everyone else is free to visit and also to join when it's prayer time (if one desires to see how we pray etc mosque is open place). 

It would be highly disrespectful to start other religion rituals, for example i would never do Muslim prayer in Church. If Israel can not respect this behavior and if it can not show respect then they also will not get any respect. Just yesterday Israeli officers took furniture from mosque by force, no explanation given.

Under many resolutions and also by prior Zionist requests, Israel has right to Western Wall and that's it.

12 hours ago, and then said:

Funny, apparently Khamenei did.  He fired his air force chief.

Speculations, people connect many things even when there is no connection.

15 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Ultimately Israel can strike Iran far more easily and far more frequently them Iran could do to Israel.

By using warplanes yeah, Iran is not very capable but they do not need to use warplanes when they have advanced rockets. Thing is that such thing wont happen as Israel is smart enough to know that war with Iran would leave them in very bad position. 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Sir Smoke aLot

[Sir Smoke aLot]

14 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Ummm... no ? 

Both side have medium-range rockets. But Israel has the ability so shoot them down. And as for Iran... it has the sheer size to absorb them. 

I would not bet on it. Around 2000 km is well within capability of both nations.

14 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Remember the V-2 rockets in WW2. They where a terror weapon, because they could explode in London in random areas, and there was no defense against them. 

But in terms of strategy.. they didn't reduce the UK's defensive posture one iota. 

It is a bit silly to compare that with today. From rocketry aspect mainly but not only that.

[+and-then]

7 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

But everyone else is free to visit

Not quite true, is it?  Jews and Christians get arrested and removed from the area of the Temple Mount for just "appearing" to silently pray.  The Waqf police are quite thorough. It would please me greatly if rumors I have read turned out to be accurate.  There are researchers who believe that Solomon's Temple was actually built not at the plateau where the Al Aqsa is now located but lower down the side in an area known as the "city of David".  If true and provable from archaeological evidence this would allow the Jews to build their Temple and reduce that flashpoint between them.  

[+and-then]

7 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

By using warplanes yeah, Iran is not very capable but they do not need to use warplanes when they have advanced rockets. Thing is that such thing wont happen as Israel is smart enough to know that war with Iran would leave them in very bad position. 

Yes, a war with Iran would be a terrible thing for both sides.  If it began in earnest there would be mass casualties in Israel and in Iran's major cities because Israel has very effective long range ballistic missiles as well as a potent air force.  The problem is that Israel would be attacked by Iran's proxies in the north and south as well.  That is why the Israelis are working so hard to keep Iran from building further infrastructure within Iraq.  

Israel is one of the few nations on the planet that have taken the threat of EMP as a strategic weapon seriously and have hardened their country against it.  They are also rumored to have developed their own EMP weapons.  A high altitude nuclear airburst might just fry the electronics on the ground and greatly reduce the accuracy of those thousands of missiles and render them far less deadly.  In a scenario where Iran, Hamas, Hizballah and Syrian militias all attacked Israel together, I wouldn't be surprised if they used such a weapon. 

If this war happened during Trump's time in office, Israel would not be alone, either.  I'd say the Iranians are smart enough to know they'd want no part of that party.

[RoofGardener]

On 8/23/2019 at 9:03 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Israel has come out long ago and said they can reach Iran with their bombers, but the bombers could not make it back.

Needless to say, USA was not selling them any such bombers that could go the distance, but with Trump in office, who knows?! 
And I too am suspicious about Israel flying two new stealth F-35's over Teheran. They say it but....

Hmm... I dunno. What "bombers" does Israel have ? F15's ? But they don't have the range to reach much of Iran, let alone with bombs. 

The F35 has a range of about 1750 miles. That means it could BARELY make it to Tehran international airport.. and land. But it would then have to refuel to make it back home again. 

I believe it is capable of mid-air refueling ? But it would have to refuel over Iraq or Syria or something ? That seems highly unlikely ? 

Unless the sneaky Israelis fitted it with some sort of extra fuel tanks ? However, even if it COULD reach Tehran (and back), it wouldn't be able to carry any weapons. 

[RoofGardener]

20 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

I would not bet on it. Around 2000 km is well within capability of both nations.

It is a bit silly to compare that with today. From rocketry aspect mainly but not only that.

Well, yes, that is certainly true, @Sir Smoke aLot. But to what end ? Like I said, Iran is a huge country. It could absorb Israeli missile attacks without too much damage being done. Israel IS more vulnerable because of its tiny size and high population density. But it has Iron Dome, Patriot, and very good civil defense (shelters etc). So I think mutual rocket attacks would not achieve very much ? 

[Sir Smoke aLot]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, yes, that is certainly true, @Sir Smoke aLot. But to what end ? Like I said, Iran is a huge country. It could absorb Israeli missile attacks without too much damage being done. Israel IS more vulnerable because of its tiny size and high population density. But it has Iron Dome, Patriot, and very good civil defense (shelters etc). So I think mutual rocket attacks would not achieve very much ? 

You might be correct but i really see those rockets as something very, very dangerous. Hezbollah rockets have placed IDF under control, in a way since Israel did not attack any target for which Hezbollah said that there will be retaliation.

I would not bet on Iron Dome, if it was so great IDF would not be restrained. Just simple logic, you might be correct but you place all on Iron Dome. It is possibly derived from Patriot and US systems which BTW is inefficient in Saudi A. since Houtis strike whatever they targeted so far.

Iron Dome was not effective as medias would like us to believe and also as military spending propaganda claims. In Protective Edge, confronted with Hamas fireworks it was not very effective. But that is another subject.

I truly hoped that Israel is smart to avoid escalation but with so much backing from USA it seems that they will cross the line.

Just now they attacked ''Iranian'' targets near Damascus, claiming how they ''thwarted Iranian attacks'' - which is lunacy if you ask me. What attack? Claim doesn't make it truth. Link to JPost article. Imagine, now they are fearful of retaliation  So why do you attack if you now make fear campaign? Something is rotten there.

In Beirut two Israeli drones fell, one of which was suicide drone which did not detonate. Those small drones which were used to gas protests in Gaza. They really are pushing their luck.

 

 

[RoofGardener]

4 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

You might be correct but i really see those rockets as something very, very dangerous. Hezbollah rockets have placed IDF under control, in a way since Israel did not attack any target for which Hezbollah said that there will be retaliation.

I would not bet on Iron Dome, if it was so great IDF would not be restrained. Just simple logic, you might be correct but you place all on Iron Dome. It is possibly derived from Patriot and US systems which BTW is inefficient in Saudi A. since Houtis strike whatever they targeted so far.

Iron Dome was not effective as medias would like us to believe and also as military spending propaganda claims. In Protective Edge, confronted with Hamas fireworks it was not very effective. But that is another subject.

 

 

Hmm.. I dunno @Sir Smoke aLot. Have you considered the possibility that Israel shows restraint for moral reasons, as well as political ? (as opposed to being somehow intimidated ? ). 

Israel tends to attack targets in Gaza when those target areas are used to launch missiles. I believe the same is true of southern Lebanon ? But then... Hezbollah - so far as I can recall - hasn't attacked Israel. Perhaps it is Hezbollah that is intimidated ? 

As for the effectiveness of Iron Dome... it is only used when a projectile is deemed to be aimed at a population centre. (e.g. it isn't fired if a rocket is aiming for a field or empty area). Within those parameters, it had around a 90% success rate during operation Protective Edge..... which is pretty darned good for a rocket. The USA would LOVE to have it's Standard-3 missile achieve the same rate. (although that is somewhat comparing apples with oranges.). Indeed, the USA is negotiating to purchase some Iron Dome systems for its OWN rocket defense systems. So I would challenge your assertion that it was "..not very effective" during Protective Edge ? 

As for Saudi Arabia... the Patriot batteries are only as good as their operators, and they have to be deployed reasonably close to the areas they are supposed to protect. Saudi training and military readiness is... not all that it should be. Saudi's want to be Fast Jet Pilots and Tank Commanders.... missile defense is regarded as... well.. unglamorous ? 

[Sir Smoke aLot]

14 hours ago, and then said:

Not quite true, is it?  Jews and Christians get arrested and removed from the area of the Temple Mount for just "appearing" to silently pray.  The Waqf police are quite thorough. It would please me greatly if rumors I have read turned out to be accurate.  There are researchers who believe that Solomon's Temple was actually built not at the plateau where the Al Aqsa is now located but lower down the side in an area known as the "city of David".  If true and provable from archaeological evidence this would allow the Jews to build their Temple and reduce that flashpoint between them.  

Because Israeli settlers and fanatics get inside mosque and desecrate it for decades. Do not get Christians in this story because Israeli settlers are responsible for things which happen there. Usually they get escorted by IDF or by Israeli security which safeguards their rituals. 

Man what are you saying that Palestinians are abusing someone?  You are defending desecration of other people's holy sites! 

 

This happened at end of Ramadan. Israeli authorities promised not to interrupt Muslim prayer in this holy time but... They did not do what they promised. Like thousands of times before.

Now i do not feel the need to share millions of videos here and violence is not allowed but do your own research and repeat this lunacy after, if you can?

What you are saying is that some sort of Palestinian police is attacking Jews in mosques, not allowing them passage or whatever. Do you even hear your self? How rude that sounds?

I am sorry to say but you really are brainwashed with your love towards Israel. To build temple one has to destroy others heritage. Israeli fanatics and American Christian Zionists have managed to make it Israeli official policy to rebuild the temple, move which was considered radical and fanatical not so long ago.

This is common knowledge, the fact that settlers abuse Palestinians and their mosques. For objective mind prove is everywhere. For fanatical supporters of Zionism even murders are not proof enough. You just proved that your support for Israeli violence is based on fanaticism not on logic and facts. Thanks for proving it.

''Palestinian police abuse settlers''  

14 hours ago, and then said:

If this war happened during Trump's time in office, Israel would not be alone, either.  I'd say the Iranians are smart enough to know they'd want no part of that party.

True. That is what i am afraid of, Israel will do something as it always did when US support was high. But if Israel strikes first i do not believe that public support will be so high for US to intervene with full force. US would stop the violence diplomatically since new war won't do any good to USA. Well, if weapon sales can get high maybe...

In any case risk is too high, check post above and see that Israel is working towards escalation.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

Just now, RoofGardener said:

Have you considered the possibility that Israel shows restraint for moral reasons, as well as political ? (as opposed to being somehow intimidated ? ). 

From political reasons, maybe such thing did happen but from moral, its funny to even argue about it. Just check 2006 war and also Winograd comision (if i remember right). Conclusions are clear. Implications are clear.

3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Israel tends to attack targets in Gaza when those target areas are used to launch missiles. I believe the same is true of southern Lebanon ? But then... Hezbollah - so far as I can recall - hasn't attacked Israel. Perhaps it is Hezbollah that is intimidated ? 

I guess that children playing soccer on beach were also legitimate targets. Just stop OK.

It is good thing that there is relative calmness with Hezbollah, i hope it stay that way but it is not secret that Israel has aspirations towards Lebanese territory, fact confirmed even by once media darling, Hariri. Goes back to Herzl and Gurion who's statements confirm ideology about Letani.

Sheeba farms are occupied Lebanese land.

5 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

As for the effectiveness of Iron Dome... it is only used when a projectile is deemed to be aimed at a population centre.

Yes, it would be silly to shoot down rockets which fall in desert. It was never confronted with anything else except Hamas rockets. Hopefully it won't have to be tested vs. Iranian missiles or Hezbollah missiles.

6 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

As for Saudi Arabia... the Patriot batteries are only as good as their operators

True but when SA buys they buy ''people'' too. Infrastructure, training, local production etc and price goes in billions. All that said it is not quantum physics, i am electronics technician, both hardware and software part. To use it can not be harder than to make it

But Saudis are really unable to function so you got argument here lol if we base things on what Houtis do to them.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

On 8/24/2019 at 8:59 AM, DarkHunter said:

You really need to start doing even the most basic research, it's just making you look bad at this point.

"Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi has approved the appointment of 40,000 Sunni fighters to the Popular Mobilization Units, a force that was once almost exclusively Shiite."

https://web.archive.org/web/20160401040009/http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/01/iraq-sunnis-join-shiite-popular-mobilization-forces.html

So you saying that the Sunnj forces arent PMF is wrong.

As for the numbers of the PMF loyal to Iran while this isnt all of them these are the bigger groups.  First there is Badr which depending on the source has between 10,000 and 50,000.  Badr claims to have 50,000 but outside sources seem to put it closer to 10,000.  Then there is Kataib Hezbollah which claims to have 30,000 but outside sources put closer to 400.  Finishing out the large militias there is Harakat Hezbollah al Nujaba with 9,000 and Kataib Sayyad al Shuhada with 2,000.

Adding up those larger militias puts the number of Iran backing militia between 21,400 and 91,000 but Badr and Kataib Hezbollah are almost certainly inflating their numbers.  Of course that isnt all of the militia groups but it seems most of the groups either get counted among the larger groups or only number in the tens to low hundreds at most.

One thing I do specifically like about your post is how you say Sadr is against outside influence in Iraq but will aid Iran if Israel attacks Iran within Iraq but will have no problem with Iran building what would be large military bases within Iraq to strike Israel which would also be violating Iraqi sovereignty, then again you never let facts get in the way of what you believed before so why start now.

Lastly there is the matter of equipment, seems you missed the part where I said generally which isnt surprising given how you ignore anything that doesnt prop up your unfounded beliefs.  Even then having a handful of tanks and a few Humvees and other lightly armored vehicles doesnt really suggest a heavily armed force.  

PMU is made from Shia (majority) but also has a lot of Sunni, Christian, Kurdish and some other minorities. Fact which has to be stated. By new laws they are part of Iraq Army.

[RoofGardener]

2 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

I guess that children playing soccer on beach were also legitimate targets. Just stop OK.

That is a very nasty comment, @Sir Smoke aLot, and you should be ashamed. The children where playing near a known HAMAS weapons dump. It was a tragic accident, not a deliberate act. 

3 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Because Israeli settlers and fanatics get inside mosque and desecrate it for decades. Do not get Christians in this story because Israeli settlers are responsible for things which happen there. Usually they get escorted by IDF or by Israeli security which safeguards their rituals. 

This happened at end of Ramadan. Israeli authorities promised not to interrupt Muslim prayer in this holy time but... They did not do what they promised. Like thousands of times before.

 

What on earth are you talking about, @Sir Smoke aLot ? 

Some Israeli's where allowed into the compound.. THEIR compound... as part of the celebrations for the liberation of Jerusalem from Jordanian control. They where escorted. They behaved respectuflly and did NOT enter the mosque itself. 

[+and-then]

10 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Iron Dome was not effective as medias would like us to believe and also as military spending propaganda claims. In Protective Edge, confronted with Hamas fireworks it was not very effective.

Actually, Iron dome is a single system and their are multiple layers.  It was the first layer, designed for "point defense".  Israel also has an intermediate system - David's Sling - and the Arrow system for long range ballistic missiles.  So far, Iron Dome has been extremely effective.  The fact that many mortars, rockets and such impact the ground does not mean failure for the system.  The radars associated with the system are sophisticated enough to track the projectile's impact point and to prioritize which will hit a target that might kill citizens.  It then aims for that object.  

The real vulnerability of the entire system is that it can be overwhelmed in a total war situation.  In such a case the priorities of what is protected would shift and there would be many more casualties as a result.  That may sound like a success for those who wish to see Israel removed from the land but in fact it will work to endanger even more of the people in Lebanon, Iran and Syria.  The world really doesn't want to see Israel's military taken off its leash.  

[+and-then]

10 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

''Palestinian police abuse settlers''

Where did I say this?  If you want to dispute what I say then at least counter MY words and not your own assumptions.  I said that the Waqf police are thorough.  They are known for watching Jews and removing them if they even LOOK like they might be silently praying.  I never mentioned "settlers" at all.  I also mentioned that the desire to rebuild the Temple could be expedited with less chance of conflict if the archaeological evidence can be shown to prove that the Temple was never actually on the plateau where the Al Aqsa is today.  I'd think that would be a positive thing to you.  

[+and-then]

11 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Claim doesn't make it truth.

Denial without evidence doesn't prove it's untrue, either.  Maybe desert demons are blowing up those Iranian stockpiles and militias?   Or maybe they just self-destruct at random times?  Iran was attempting to create in Syria the same threat that they've successfully installed in southern Lebanon.  They've been struck so repeatedly and successfully that they've had to change plans and try it on Iraqi territory.  It doesn't seem to be working for them there, either.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

8 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

That is a very nasty comment, @Sir Smoke aLot, and you should be ashamed.

I should be ashamed? No man, you said how Israel only attacks military targets and i pointed out how, in mentioned case, they attacked teenagers which were playing soccer. That was direct attack on the claim which you made here.

 If anyone should be ashamed it is IDF with it's miscalculation (to say the least) and you for trying to wash such tactics. Do not be absurd.

8 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

What on earth are you talking about, @Sir Smoke aLot ? 

Some Israeli's where allowed into the compound.. THEIR compound... as part of the celebrations for the liberation of Jerusalem from Jordanian control. They where escorted. They behaved respectuflly and did NOT enter the mosque itself. 

Who's compound? Israel has right on Western wall and nothing beside it. To capture territory by force is not allowed and as long as current international law exists your claims are ridiculous.

As i said there were million cases of violations by Israeli radical settlers and Palestinians know what to expect. The fact is that they still have no problem with allowing normal people to visit.