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Manwon Lender

Iran has seized a British oil tanker

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Sir Smoke aLot
1 hour ago, and then said:

I also mentioned that the desire to rebuild the Temple could be expedited with less chance of conflict if the archaeological evidence can be shown to prove that the Temple was never actually on the plateau where the Al Aqsa is today.  I'd think that would be a positive thing to you.  

There were many other positive and hopeful cases which have ended like they never existed. Of course that essentially it is very positive but over the years one learns that optimism usually end badly for Palestinians.

Israel has problem with keeping their radical elements in line and it would be too much to expect that change in Temple project will happen. Hundreds of millions were already collected for the purpose of making the Temple and removing other buildings in temple area. If i learned anything over the years, when it comes to this conflict, it is that things do not end up good for Palestinians. Just in last decades Israel has got so much land and has effectively placed Palestinian people in position where they are enclosed in enclaves and do not have any political or other power.

Since Palestinians are so weakened Israel has no need (nor desire) to give up any part of Jerusalem. I would love to be wrong but i had enough disappointments over the years so i cant keep my hopes high over this issue regardless of the fact that i agree with you.

As for Waqf police i totally misunderstood your post so sorry for that i wrote what i did because it is clear that there is always official separation of interests in which Jewish interest are always ahead that of Arabs. Both in occupied areas and in Israel.

One issue is also interesting. Since now there are kilometers of tunnels below complex (size which can only be speculated) and since many objects above have fractured base, walls i believe that we are close to point of no return for Al Aqsa and plateau in general. Let alone the fact that any infrastructure restoration and building is prevented by Israeli authorities for decades, from water pipes over to mentioned fractured walls.

With all that said how can we expect positive outcome after decades of neglect with intention of rebuilding the temple over everything, since that is the plan? 

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and then
28 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

If anyone should be ashamed it is IDF with it's miscalculation (to say the least) and you for trying to wash such tactics

IIRC, that event happened within the context of general combat but even if it did not, when guerilla type efforts from the sea have to be defended against, mistakes can happen.  The problem so many Palestinian supporters seem to share is an absolute inability to ever assign responsibility to BOTH sides in this conflict.  That's on YOU.  You seem to believe that ANY Palestinian death by Israel is murder and that simply isn't true.

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Sir Smoke aLot
1 minute ago, and then said:

IIRC, that event happened within the context of general combat but even if it did not, when guerilla type efforts from the sea have to be defended against, mistakes can happen.  The problem so many Palestinian supporters seem to share is an absolute inability to ever assign responsibility to BOTH sides in this conflict.  That's on YOU.  You seem to believe that ANY Palestinian death by Israel is murder and that simply isn't true.

IDF official stance was that they will, as usual, investigate this ''great accident''.

What i find disgusting is your and @RoofGardener tries to defend this.

Let's take this article on Guardian, LINK.

Chronology is well written. Israel claimed that they targeted : ''Hamas’s Naval Police and Naval Force (including naval commandos)”.''

This was explained by Peter Lerner, LINK and it is covered in the article.

Now, as usual, eyewitness accounts and journalists on the field have found, without doubt (as video material is available) that actually only thing at location was an old hut and there is nothing which resembles ''Hamas’s Naval Police and Naval Force (including naval commandos)”.

The absurdity of the claim is clear, it's insulting to ones intelligence. Naval Force and naval commandos of Hamas :D So Hamas has a navy :D 

Bakr_AlMezan1edit.jpg

Now i will write in IDF apologists style, let's assume that Hamas has navy and also commandos :D Since they are under blockade and unable to get weapons Hamas had to use their navy, precisely commando divers.. 

Look, there is aircraft carrier behind that hut there and also some artillery guns which Hamas Navy divers have recovered from Pacific, namely from wreckage of Yamato near Iwo Jima.

IDF had Israel's security in mind when they attacked those highly dangerous installations, even tho they are outdated (being from WW2) they still PACK A PUNCH.

In picture below we can see four artillery shells which Hamas launched form guns recovered from Yamato. IDF merely removed the threat.

abc_gaza_children_bombed_01_jc_140716_4x

By following IDF narrative i also can hang on it and continue to write in fairy tale style but problem is that those artillery shells were not Yamato's shells but four children which were attacked intentionally.

Shame on you both, i understand your reluctance to admit some cases but now you have truly removed every bit of empathy and humanity from yourself and for what? In order to defend some military actions. :no:

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Earl.Of.Trumps
15 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm... I dunno. What "bombers" does Israel have ? F15's ? But they don't have the range to reach much of Iran, let alone with bombs. 

The F35 has a range of about 1750 miles. That means it could BARELY make it to Tehran international airport.. and land. But it would then have to refuel to make it back home again. 

I believe it is capable of mid-air refueling ? But it would have to refuel over Iraq or Syria or something ? That seems highly unlikely ? 

Unless the sneaky Israelis fitted it with some sort of extra fuel tanks ? However, even if it COULD reach Tehran (and back), it wouldn't be able to carry any weapons. 

As I have read up on this, I'm finding the likely suspect to abet Israel would be Saudi Arabia, who have no lost love for the Iranians.

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RoofGardener
9 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Who's compound? Israel has right on Western wall and nothing beside it. To capture territory by force is not allowed and as long as current international law exists your claims are ridiculous.

As i said there were million cases of violations by Israeli radical settlers and Palestinians know what to expect. The fact is that they still have no problem with allowing normal people to visit.

Oh REALLY, @Sir Smoke aLot. Please do tell me.. which nation has rights to the overall site ? The last nation state prior to Israel to occoupy the site was the Jordanians, and THAT was by right of conquest. Previous to THAT it was the British (right of conquest), the Ottoman turks (right of conquest), the Arab Muslim armies (right of conquest), and so on. 

As for the beach incident; Israel was targeting a HAMAS weapons facility. The killing of the four children was a tragic accident, and NOT a particularly regular event. 

As for your statement about "million cases of violations", are we still talking about the Mosque on the Dome ? 

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RoofGardener
7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

As I have read up on this, I'm finding the likely suspect to abet Israel would be Saudi Arabia, who have no lost love for the Iranians.

Hmm.. in intriguing concept, @Earl.Of.Trumps. Saudi would have to be VERY careful. They risk expulsion from the Arab League, to say nothing of internal revolt, if they where caught deliberately helping Israeli aircraft. 

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