Popular Post Carnoferox Posted July 20, 2019 Popular Post #1 Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) The "thunderbird" allegedly killed near Tombstone, Arizona in 1890 is one of the most infamous stories in cryptozoology. It is used by some diehard cryptozoologists and creationists as an example of an encounter with a living pterosaur. However, anyone taking this story seriously has to ignore the ridiculous measurements reported in the original newspaper article (Anon., 1890). Here I scaled my own silhouette of the creature using these measurements, since no one else has ever bothered to do it. Max body width: 50 inches (1.27 meters) Head length: 8 feet (2.44 meters) Total length: 92 feet (28.04 meters) Wingspan: 160 feet (48.77 meters) The article also mentions two small legs located in front(!) of the wings, but since they weren't measured I excluded them. The Quetzalcoatlus silhouette is from Witton (2018), scaled to an 11 meter wingspan. The human silhouette is by Andrew Farke (CC BY 3.0), standing next to a 1 meter scale bar. The resulting monstrosity makes it quite clear that this story is entirely fictional. Not only is the creature far outside the maximum size range of any pterosaur, it is highly doubtful that an animal this size would be capable of flight. Cased closed, yet another tall tale from a late 1800's local newspaper. References: Anonymous. (1890, April 26). Found on the desert. Strange winged monster discovered and killed on the Huachuca Desert. Tombstone Epitaph, p. 3. Witton, M.P. (2018). Pteranodon and beyond: the history of giant pterosaurs from 1870 onwards. Geological Society, London, Special Publications, 343, 313-323. Edited July 20, 2019 by Carnoferox 6 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 20, 2019 #2 Share Posted July 20, 2019 isnt that the basis of that picture people thought they saw but that never existed? back then newspapers made up stories to help sales, the sky monster, jacko a couple i like, and that one of a alien craft taking out a farmers windmill and buried in town cemetery, hum, is this an old version of "fake news"? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted July 20, 2019 Author #3 Share Posted July 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, the13bats said: isnt that the basis of that picture people thought they saw but that never existed? back then newspapers made up stories to help sales, the sky monster, jacko a couple i like, and that one of a alien craft taking out a farmers windmill and buried in town cemetery, hum, is this an old version of "fake news"? The Tombstone Epitaph article is often claimed to be the source of the elusive thunderbird photo, but it doesn't contain any photographs. How this got mixed up is beyond me. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted July 20, 2019 #4 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Thanks @Carnoferox. Nice work. Tell me, thou. Did people know about fossilised Pterosaurs and thunderbirds in the 1800's? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted July 20, 2019 Author #5 Share Posted July 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Captain Risky said: Thanks @Carnoferox. Nice work. Tell me, thou. Did people know about fossilised Pterosaurs and thunderbirds in the 1800's? Pterosaurs were already well-known by 1890, with the first genus Pterodactylus having been named and described in 1809. 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 21, 2019 #6 Share Posted July 21, 2019 So who had the photo if these people didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted July 21, 2019 Author #7 Share Posted July 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said: So who had the photo if these people didn't? No one, because it almost certainly never existed in the first place. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 21, 2019 #8 Share Posted July 21, 2019 54 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said: So who had the photo if these people didn't? there was a story of a pic people really thought they saw that never was, https://themothman.fandom.com/wiki/The_Missing_Thunderbird_Photo 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Not A Rockstar Posted July 21, 2019 #9 Share Posted July 21, 2019 So none of those pics was ever published anywhere? Yet they are online now? Strange, all of this. But, it Is evidence that fake news has been around almost since the first press 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 21, 2019 #10 Share Posted July 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said: So none of those pics was ever published anywhere? Yet they are online now? Strange, all of this. But, it Is evidence that fake news has been around almost since the first press i believe the pics we see now are after the fact not what was alleged to be in the paper, i spent hours one night on a sight that was debunking all kinds of antique weird pics by tracking down the real pic before it met photoshop 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 21, 2019 #11 Share Posted July 21, 2019 oh, and i thought i saw the old bird pic that never was too..the mind is weird. i also recall a scene in jaws vividly that im 99.9% sure never happened, not an outtake but just my imagination, the thing that makes it way weird in looking for the facts i wasnt the only one who recalls the scene in jaws that didnt happen, if theirs interest ill make a thread... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 21, 2019 #12 Share Posted July 21, 2019 3 hours ago, the13bats said: there was a story of a pic people really thought they saw that never was, https://themothman.fandom.com/wiki/The_Missing_Thunderbird_Photo That's a good link! here's what I found interesting or peculiar: "Ritchie Benedict, who recalled seeing Ivan T. Sanderson himself display a copy of the photo on a Canadian television show "The Pierre Benton Show". Unfortunately though, no copies of the show have ever been found." "In the late 90's, Mothman Prophecies author John Keel insisted that "I know I saw it! And not only that - I compared notes with a lot of other people who saw it." Yet no one can find it!! Amazing how many people swear they saw it and yet, nothing. I like the pics, too. Maybe the fakes are what people remember. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted July 21, 2019 #13 Share Posted July 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, the13bats said: oh, and i thought i saw the old bird pic that never was too..the mind is weird. i also recall a scene in jaws vividly that im 99.9% sure never happened, not an outtake but just my imagination, the thing that makes it way weird in looking for the facts i wasnt the only one who recalls the scene in jaws that didnt happen, if theirs interest ill make a thread... Tell us what the scene was,, I saw Jaws, maybe I can recall something 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 21, 2019 #14 Share Posted July 21, 2019 32 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said: Tell us what the scene was,, I saw Jaws, maybe I can recall something it will be fun but i will get long winded ill shower and start a new thread, a nice divergent from aliens and bigfoot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattacaster Posted July 22, 2019 #15 Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 2:17 AM, the13bats said: oh, and i thought i saw the old bird pic that never was too..the mind is weird. i also recall a scene in jaws vividly that im 99.9% sure never happened, not an outtake but just my imagination, the thing that makes it way weird in looking for the facts i wasnt the only one who recalls the scene in jaws that didnt happen, if theirs interest ill make a thread... I believe that's called the Mandela effect(affect?) When you remember something that happened (or didn't happen at all) and you swear you're right and not crazy, but in reality you are not correct. One example is the correct spelling of the Bernstein bears. Anyhooo...what is the scene from jaws you mentioned? It's one of my favourites and I've seen it many times. Also I remember footage from jaws 2 where it's different between the theatrical version and the edited forv tv version. It's not footage edited out, but a bit of extra footage added in in the tv version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted July 22, 2019 #16 Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 7/20/2019 at 6:15 PM, Captain Risky said: Thanks @Carnoferox. Nice work. Tell me, thou. Did people know about fossilised Pterosaurs and thunderbirds in the 1800's? Oh yes. 1784 was the first discovery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterosaur#History_of_discovery 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted July 22, 2019 Author #17 Share Posted July 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, Kenemet said: Oh yes. 1784 was the first discovery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterosaur#History_of_discovery Yes that would be the Pterodactylus antiquus holotype, which wouldn't be named until 1809. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 22, 2019 #18 Share Posted July 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Mattacaster said: I believe that's called the Mandela effect(affect?) When you remember something that happened (or didn't happen at all) and you swear you're right and not crazy, but in reality you are not correct. One example is the correct spelling of the Bernstein bears. Anyhooo...what is the scene from jaws you mentioned? It's one of my favourites and I've seen it many times. Also I remember footage from jaws 2 where it's different between the theatrical version and the edited forv tv version. It's not footage edited out, but a bit of extra footage added in in the tv version. well i started a thread about it to not highjack but in my research which i found very intriguing of course we sometimes remember stuff that never was in a film, no queston the mind is like that but i also learned that the ones beating their fists the hardest that a person didnt see something in a film is because they are this big huge fan who has seen every version a million times and they never saw it so it never happened, i have seen those types name things that they claim never happened that a quick check of ones vhs, dvd or youtube clip proves that self appointed expert was wrong themselves, another thing i noticed is in some cases say 5 people each recall it differently so to me that doesnt mean much in proving it was in the film, what bugs my OCD about my chrissie autopsy scene is there is an edit Spielberg himself said so, but he was commenting on a question sbout the choppy audio, he said the scene was long and had to be shortened, so what i recall is very much a possibility to have been there, and as pointed out many films get pieces added in various versions which i bet the original director might not know or care less about, look at the cool extra footage in the TV version of the deep, last i looked its only available in that TV version. but its not that simple, belief isnt enough for me i need to see it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted July 22, 2019 Author #19 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I just found out that a reprint of this article from the San Francisco Examiner in June 1890 contained an illustration of the thunderbird. http://anomalyinfo.com/Stories/1890-april-20-tombstone-monster 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted July 22, 2019 #20 Share Posted July 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Carnoferox said: I just found out that a reprint of this article from the San Francisco Examiner in June 1890 contained an illustration of the thunderbird. http://anomalyinfo.com/Stories/1890-april-20-tombstone-monster Yeah... that wouldn't be from an authentic sighting. It's from what they thought these things looked like back then. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted July 22, 2019 Author #21 Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Kenemet said: Yeah... that wouldn't be from an authentic sighting. It's from what they thought these things looked like back then. It's funny how a more recent depiction (from a 1992 creationist book) completely changes the size and appearance to more closely match a pterosaur. Edited July 22, 2019 by Carnoferox 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 23, 2019 #22 Share Posted July 23, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 2:22 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said: Maybe the fakes are what people remember. im not sure its one answer fits all, I sanderson, J keel, somehow its more epic when known people recall something over us nobodies, in my case i feel like i saw "a" large bird pic back in the 70s, that was connected to this threads story the problem is the connection might be where the flaw came in, ever seen this, theres a less cropped version, its used with a ton of creepypasta and its biggest connection is to the case of Russian sleep deprivation experiments which is likely a made up story but i can assure you the subject in the picture a halloween prop has zero to do with that story, but a lot of people are convinced its a subject from that case. the other problem with the bird pic that never was is eeveven like back when i thought i saw it for all i know i saw, but my mind mixed it all up because at the time i wasnt all that interested in large birds, i can fully believe that type thing can happen to people like keel and sanderson, i like keel but the man embellished and out right made up stuff, like his grinning man that somehow morphed into and combined with indrid cold an unrelated case. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted July 23, 2019 Author #23 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, the13bats said: im not sure its one answer fits all, I sanderson, J keel, somehow its more epic when known people recall something over us nobodies, in my case i feel like i saw "a" large bird pic back in the 70s, that was connected to this threads story the problem is the connection might be where the flaw came in, ever seen this, theres a less cropped version, its used with a ton of creepypasta and its biggest connection is to the case of Russian sleep deprivation experiments which is likely a made up story but i can assure you the subject in the picture a halloween prop has zero to do with that story, but a lot of people are convinced its a subject from that case. the other problem with the bird pic that never was is eeveven like back when i thought i saw it for all i know i saw, but my mind mixed it all up because at the time i wasnt all that interested in large birds, i can fully believe that type thing can happen to people like keel and sanderson, i like keel but the man embellished and out right made up stuff, like his grinning man that somehow morphed into and combined with indrid cold an unrelated case. The bird picture you posted couldn't have been responsible for the initial recollections in the 60's and 70's. It's a photo of paleontologist Ken Campbell standing next to a cutout of Argentavis and it wasn't published until 1980. I've been unable to find anything similar to the typical description of the thunderbird photo that would fit in this time frame, which leads me to think that it was entirely fabricated in the first place. Edited July 23, 2019 by Carnoferox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Caesar Posted July 24, 2019 #24 Share Posted July 24, 2019 On 21/07/2019 at 8:45 AM, Captain Risky said: Thanks @Carnoferox. Nice work. Tell me, thou. Did people know about fossilised Pterosaurs and thunderbirds in the 1800's? There’s another classic (BS) story from 1856. In France, workmen working a railway-tunnel accidentally released a pterodactyl from its tomb (encased in a rock boulder), only for it to die almost immediately. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted July 24, 2019 Author #25 Share Posted July 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, Don Caesar said: There’s another classic (BS) story from 1856. In France, workmen working a railway-tunnel accidentally released a pterodactyl from its tomb (encased in a rock boulder), only for it to die almost immediately. Living animals found inside rocks was a common theme in newspaper tall tales. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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