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The Video Game Industry Can't Go On Like This


Inversion5
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"Video games are only getting more costly, in more ways than one. And it doesn’t seem like they’re sustainable. There’s the human cost ... workers are continually undervalued and taken advantage of...  Artists who work on gory cinematics integral to games like Mortal Kombat suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder...  That’s only the start of it."

" Video games cannot do this forever. If any of these things were to collapse—the people who make them, the economy they’re sold in, the ecosystem we’re all a part of—it would be catastrophic. All of them at once? That’s a disaster we need to talk about, openly." https://kotaku.com/the-video-game-industry-cant-go-on-like-this-1836606033

I guess they need to figure out the artificial intelligence aspect of making video games.

Edited by Inversion5
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I agree games is getting too expensive 

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The problem is people keep buying them.  Unless shoppers stopped purchasing over priced items, the companies will keep marking them up.

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As long as the demand is there, the products will keep coming.

You can only really blame those who do pay these silly prices for just a game.

The companies will gladly take the money as long as there is a marker prepared to give it.....and there is.

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Expense is relative.

If you play a game for a hundred hours or more and continue to be entertained, the cost gets down to a quarter an hour more or less.   That is cheap entertainment.

If you top the game in a couple of hours and never feel challenged to play again, it gets expensive.

As somebody said, AI may play a part in keeping costs down  

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5 hours ago, Inversion5 said:

image.thumb.png.93b3e9f7372aed748eb4918c05ad1d58.png

"Video games are only getting more costly, in more ways than one. And it doesn’t seem like they’re sustainable. There’s the human cost ... workers are continually undervalued and taken advantage of...  Artists who work on gory cinematics integral to games like Mortal Kombat suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder...  That’s only the start of it."

" Video games cannot do this forever. If any of these things were to collapse—the people who make them, the economy they’re sold in, the ecosystem we’re all a part of—it would be catastrophic. All of them at once? That’s a disaster we need to talk about, openly." https://kotaku.com/the-video-game-industry-cant-go-on-like-this-1836606033

I guess they need to figure out the artificial intelligence aspect of making video games.

Hence why steam games are so popular.

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This is why I buy and play games on Steam. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Back in the 1980's my Dad used to buy Commodore 64 demo cassettes.  In the 1990's I could only afford to play the PS1 Demo discs that came with magazines.  Purchasing a brand new game on the day of its release was simply unthinkable.  Used to buy PC games when they were reduced in price and resold by White Label.  Used to buy PS1 games when they were in the budget shelf and resold as Platinum titles.  The cheapest option was to take our games to the swap shop and trade them in for similar graded games.  Usually grade B or C games.  I remember the first time I walked in with my first A+ game and I was allowed to trade it in for absolutely anything I wanted in the store.  Nowadays I shop at CEX and ebay.  Money seems to be the key deciding factor these days, just as it was back then.  The cheapest alternative I often read about is to download emulators and roms, but they don't always work properly and many don't compare well enough to the original experience.  I prefer to wait each year for the Fall and Winter sales on Steam and the Playstation network.  Another popular website to find budget PC games is gog.com

 

 

Edited by Aaron2016
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On 7/24/2019 at 12:19 AM, Inversion5 said:

*snip*

Artists who work on gory cinematics integral to games like Mortal Kombat suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder...

*snip*

If this is true, then they’re in the wrong job! Has there been a study done on this? It just doesn’t sound like realistic thing. 

If I was developing a game and I wanted it to be as real as possible, researching and executing the realness would be a positive. If people developing Mortal Kombat are getting PTSD, it’s their issue. They should look for employment from Minecraft or something.

I still have to read the article, but I’m pretty sure I know the real issue with skyrocketing costs. And it’s the same with part of the film industry...

Has to do with the development process and not the content. 

Anyways, I’ll jump on my PC and read up on the article and then add my 2c. 

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@Inversion5, I recall that some N64 games retailed in Australia for $120 too. So we have had the $$ worse here for ages. Most were around $80-$100 on release.

As for the PTSD: That's more on the individual than the profession. It's unfortunate, but if someone is affected by what they're doing, they need to change it. Eg. Mortuary workers. It's not for everyone...

As a kid/teenager I used to look up horrible things on the internet. Not because I had a weird fetish or anything, but because I wanted to be aware of human history and develop a realistic understanding of what humans are capable of.
Also war documentaries etc. which highlight the failings of us, they have added an integral facet in the way I think. What we are capable of. One of my favorites is a documentary on Hiroshima/Nagasaki: White light/Black Rain - The Destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It is raw and emotional and seemingly accurate.

The $$ problem with the game industry, and why so many new (apparently AAA) games are released basically broken, is due to the sheer amount of programming required. And 4K+ graphics, 8K with the new consoles. And pushing performance to the limit. And an exponential increase in variables due to those factors.

It's why the Boeing 737 Maxs have fallen out of the sky. Too many lines of code, too much automation, reliance on sensors which can provide false readings and failure to be able to identify bugs in the alpha/beta stage etc.. That is all.

And the F35's. The USA should have released the lines of code to the partner countries to help solve the issues, but when kept in house, it takes longer and resolutions are not reached as quickly. There are usually better solutions than in-house limited capability. The F35 is a mish-mash of capability which probably wouldn't be effective if there was a real modern war. Mid-range joint-strike fighter, kind of stealthy, not powerful enough or maneuverable enough etc. Over budget and long awaited deliveries still waiting.

I can give the solution if you want to bite? It's relatively simple and would be effective. But relies on sharing!

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/24/2019 at 4:41 AM, Tatetopa said:

Expense is relative.

If you play a game for a hundred hours or more and continue to be entertained, the cost gets down to a quarter an hour more or less.   That is cheap entertainment.

If you top the game in a couple of hours and never feel challenged to play again, it gets expensive.

As somebody said, AI may play a part in keeping costs down  

I played CDPR's Witcher 3 Wild Hunt and the expansions over 3 thousand hours.  I loved every single second of it.  I originally got it on special on my Steam Account during 2017's Halloween Sale on Steam.  Worth so much more than the $30 I paid for the game including the xpacs. 

When Cyberpunk was announced it was open for Pre-Order, I literally ran from the lounge to my office to buy it on Steam full price.  I simply cannot give enough money to CDPR.  They do an amazing job on their games and are a smaller-style game dev company in Poland.  I buy every single thing I can from them, simply to help support them. :)   

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43 minutes ago, Gwynbleidd said:

When Cyberpunk was announced it was open for Pre-Order, I literally ran from the lounge to my office to buy it on Steam full price.  I simply cannot give enough money to CDPR.  They do an amazing job on their games and are a smaller-style game dev company in Poland.  I buy every single thing I can from them, simply to help support them. :)   

Good for you.  I feel like if you enjoy something you should pay something in exchange.    It is more than the money. It lets the creators know you like what they did.

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I dont see any real issue here besides certain groups of people not being able to buy these particular products (new, at launch), like the case with.. well.. just about every sort of product.

Are expensive cars, expensive food, clothes also a problem? Should we demand these products be made in cheap labor countries so we will all be able to buy them?

Whats the alternative, relatively cheap games using the same IPs over and over with old graphics engines ad naseum without any real changes, no originality, no progress. And AI.. F* AI. 

I think Project Red and RockStar are the future of the gamingindustry. Not parties like EA and Ubisoft (who's MO is to try and cash in on endless shallow sequels).

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6 hours ago, third_eye said:

Candy crush... 

Wooo Hooo...

~

Angry birds is better :P

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I'm less concerned about the rising cost of buying a game and more concerned about all the god awful loot box, pay to win, microtransactions mechanics.

It toned down a little after the whole EA star wars blow up. But it's still pretty bad. 

Edit: just noticed someone necroed this thread lol.

Edited by spartan max2
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19 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I'm less concerned about the rising cost of buying a game and more concerned about all the god awful loot box, pay to win, microtransactions mechanics.

It toned down a little after the whole EA star wars blow up. But it's still pretty bad. 

Edit: just noticed someone necroed this thread lol.

Loot Crates are cool. You never know what your going to get in them.

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5 minutes ago, Scholar4Truth said:

Loot Crates are cool. You never know what your going to get in them.

Yep, just like slot machines.

I honestly have no idea if your post is satire or not :huh: lol.

Not to be rude, like it's fine if you are serious. 

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There’s a lot wrong with the games industry right now, and two or three triple A publishers responsible, EA, Blizzard/Activision, Codemasters.

Loot boxes are the tip of the iceberg, downloadable content, recycling game engines and ads on mobile content are the mainstay of the big devs incomes now and with hundreds/thousands of staff to pay and shareholders to look after the exploitation of parents wallets just gets worse.  The industry is heading fast for a brick wall, with governments slowly but surely getting wise to the bad practice that is rife.

But that’s just one side.  I’ve seen a couple of people here touting steam.  Now I use steam, it’s great on the surface.  But here’s the kicker, there are thousands of Indy games, really talented teams and individuals producing amazing games, only a handful ever get recognised, and steam does very little to support those that release content on their platform.

Honestly I’ve racked up more hours (thousands) on 2 indie games (kerbal and rim world) than I ever did on any of the big releases, including GTA and fallouts.  Those 2 titles combined cost me around £17 and have wonderful modding and dev communities.

Soon the big players will reach breaking point and I couldn’t care less about them.

As a side, just to illustrate how totally saturated with **** the whole industry is, the journalism side is also marred in controversy, and a quick search on YouTube will highlight the open warfare that occurs between game journos and gaming YouTube channels and commentators.

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1 hour ago, Grey Area said:

There’s a lot wrong with the games industry right now, and two or three triple A publishers responsible, EA, Blizzard/Activision, Codemasters.

Loot boxes are the tip of the iceberg, downloadable content, recycling game engines and ads on mobile content are the mainstay of the big devs incomes now and with hundreds/thousands of staff to pay and shareholders to look after the exploitation of parents wallets just gets worse.  The industry is heading fast for a brick wall, with governments slowly but surely getting wise to the bad practice that is rife.

But that’s just one side.  I’ve seen a couple of people here touting steam.  Now I use steam, it’s great on the surface.  But here’s the kicker, there are thousands of Indy games, really talented teams and individuals producing amazing games, only a handful ever get recognised, and steam does very little to support those that release content on their platform.

Honestly I’ve racked up more hours (thousands) on 2 indie games (kerbal and rim world) than I ever did on any of the big releases, including GTA and fallouts.  Those 2 titles combined cost me around £17 and have wonderful modding and dev communities.

Soon the big players will reach breaking point and I couldn’t care less about them.

As a side, just to illustrate how totally saturated with **** the whole industry is, the journalism side is also marred in controversy, and a quick search on YouTube will highlight the open warfare that occurs between game journos and gaming YouTube channels and commentators.

TellTaleGames has had issues as well but it seems to be coming back.

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Gaming is big BUSINESS.  There are billions of dollars to be made and when that is the case, you find accountants, not game designers running the show.   Over the years, I have used steam and played games from the big publishers, and I have certainly seen the changes.  

I don't have any good solutions to offer.  I am slightly encouraged by Minecraft and all of the third party work that has been added to the original game content.  It makes it seem more like a community effort of players and modders who are also players.  When you play a big game, you are playing in somebody else's  world, great if they don't become too greedy.

What are your thoughts on MMO's?   I've played a number over the course of a decade or so.  It seems like there used to be more social grouping than there is now.  The mechanics are there now for a player to sign in, get into a group of strangers, never talk, finish a mission ,and then go separate ways only to interact again by chance.  Do players care about interacting with other players or would people be just as happy with 4 or 9 or whatever number of NPC's as your team? 

 

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13 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Gaming is big BUSINESS.  There are billions of dollars to be made and when that is the case, you find accountants, not game designers running the show.   Over the years, I have used steam and played games from the big publishers, and I have certainly seen the changes.  

It’s hard to say if it’s always been there and I am just more switched on now.  Certainly the industry has grown and evolved, but it’s always been a battleground, particularly with the console wars of the 90’s.

 

16 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I don't have any good solutions to offer.  I am slightly encouraged by Minecraft and all of the third party work that has been added to the original game content.  It makes it seem more like a community effort of players and modders who are also players.  When you play a big game, you are playing in somebody else's  world, great if they don't become too greedy.

Minecraft is the true rags to riches story isn’t it.  I remember playing it when it was a free web based thing and being totally enchanted by its atmosphere, now it’s owned by Microsoft so what does that tell you?

 

20 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

What are your thoughts on MMO's?   I've played a number over the course of a decade or so.  It seems like there used to be more social grouping than there is now.  The mechanics are there now for a player to sign in, get into a group of strangers, never talk, finish a mission ,and then go separate ways only to interact again by chance.  Do players care about interacting with other players or would people be just as happy with 4 or 9 or whatever number of NPC's as your team? 

 

I lived for MMO’s, started with Dark age of Camelot, and wasted far too much time on WoW, and then bought every MMO released up until about 2010 just trying to recapture that original WoW feeling.

Everything Is just designed for convenience nowadays.  I remember the chats around the meeting stone we would have between calling out LFM Tank and Healer BRD.  Then they scrapped that, made the instances solo-able, with auto party mechanics.  It’s a shame and no wonder there was a campaign for classic WoW to be released.  Theres no contemporary for that now.  WoW will forever be nostalgia for me.

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12 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

It’s hard to say if it’s always been there and I am just more switched on now.  Certainly the industry has grown and evolved, but it’s always been a battleground, particularly with the console wars of the 90’s.

Great post.  Thanks for reminding me of the console wars.  I have been mostly PC based, so I forgot about those, but man that was huge.

Also thanks for bringing back a lot of really good memories. My son get me to start a WOW character just before Burning Crusade came out, still occasionally play my original orc shaman, but fell in love with dwarves for some odd reason. I didn't start serious two or three night a week raiding until  I found a good guild  during Lich King. Early on it took us two or three sessions to get through 1 boss.   I haven't been logged in WOW for about 5 months, playing ESO mostly. I'm sure that will wear thin too.

What do you know about EVE?  I am getting interested in open worlds where player actions affect the world.

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A new xbox or ps4 game is probably (with tax) almost 70$. It's a billion dollar industry filled with con artists (like gamestop) offered me 12$ for my used ps3 but they'll resell for around 80$. I'm content with my nintendo ds (playing mostly retro games).

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2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Great post.  Thanks for reminding me of the console wars.  I have been mostly PC based, so I forgot about those, but man that was huge.

Also thanks for bringing back a lot of really good memories. My son get me to start a WOW character just before Burning Crusade came out, still occasionally play my original orc shaman, but fell in love with dwarves for some odd reason. I didn't start serious two or three night a week raiding until  I found a good guild  during Lich King. Early on it took us two or three sessions to get through 1 boss.   I haven't been logged in WOW for about 5 months, playing ESO mostly. I'm sure that will wear thin too.

What do you know about EVE?  I am getting interested in open worlds where player actions affect the world.

Man I never really had the time for hardcore raiding, I did a few of the early raids, but never managed to get geared up for the serious ones.  Raid bosses were one of those love hate things, when it works it’s awesome, when you wipe it ruins relationships.

Totally forgot about eve, played that from the start, but put it down a few years ago, and was something I would pick up again periodically.  Eve puts PVP in a whole new category, get pk’d lose everything, a completely capitalist player driven economy.  I was never ruthless enough to be a really good eve player, there was some reasonable PvE content but you always ran the risk of being PK’d wherever you were.  Awesome game, but not for the faint of heart.

Aaah the good old days :tsu:

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