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ExpandMyMind

Mueller Testifies before Congress (Live)

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and then
13 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

That correction is sure to disappoint pro-impeachment Democrats, given that the moment was widely shared on social media and considered by many to be a boost to their cause.

Someone here lied.  Either it was the AG or Mueller:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/deja-vu-mueller-again-causes-confusion-on-his-reason-for-not-charging-trump

From the article - Barr said in April that Mueller told him that Mueller was not saying that he would have charged Trump with a crime but for the Office of Legal Counsel opinion and, in addition, a joint statement from the offices of Mueller and Barr in May reiterated that point.  

I've heard Barr make this statement on several occasions.  The dimwitted hack on the dais today is lying, I think.  I'm looking for that joint statement to see if it still exists on the web.

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OverSword
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

You said it much better than I did.

I posted that before I had read your reply.  You just said it in fewer words.

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RAyMO
5 minutes ago, and then said:

I've heard Barr make this statement on several occasions.  The dimwitted hack on the dais today is lying, I think

you could think that or alternatively you could argue that perhaps Barr was lying, if one could be so motivated.

which would argue that Meuller either lied today or was coerced to lie in the joint statement. listening to him today - I think he has been given very clear instructions from Barr to say next to nothing.

Edited by RAyMO
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and then
26 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

you were right - Mueller has corrected himself saying that the OLC policy in fact prevented him from making a determination on whether Trump should be charged

That is a direct flip flop of what he told Barr and supposedly he told him in a joint statement.  If this is accurate, it will be presented as evidence that Mueller is lying.  

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and then
1 minute ago, RAyMO said:

you could think that or alternatively you could argue that perhaps Barr was lying, if one could be so motivated.

Anything is possible but with the history of the Dems in this drama, I'd sooner trust Barr.  We'll see.  There is supposed to be a joint statement that was issued that should confirm who is telling the truth here.

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Doc Socks Junior
12 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

The GOP to decide that a POTUS ordering his staff to falsify records in order to impede an investigation is wrong.

 

The opinion of a different political party shouldn't affect the decision.  Unless it's purely political, in which case right and wrong is the wrong lens to view it through.

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ExpandMyMind
20 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

And then Mueller said...

"My going through the elements with you does not mean that I subscribe with what you're trying to prove by those elements."

Indeed. Which aligns with his entire testimony - 'that doesn't mean I agree with your assessment' and 'that doesn't mean I disagree with your assessment'. It doesn't confirm or conflict with Ted's assessment is what I'm saying.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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and then
13 minutes ago, OverSword said:

They don't trust the republicans to honestly hear out an impeachment and vote based on evidence rather than party line.

Like the D's did with Clinton?  That's the whole point of Impeachment.  It has always been a political act, not a true judicial function.  The D's would need about 20 R's to flip during an election year.  Pelosi knows this but her junior members on social media don't care.  I really hope they push her into it.  I'm mostly off carbs but I'd indulge in some popcorn for THAT drama :w00t:

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ExpandMyMind
9 minutes ago, and then said:

Someone here lied.  Either it was the AG or Mueller:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/deja-vu-mueller-again-causes-confusion-on-his-reason-for-not-charging-trump

From the article - Barr said in April that Mueller told him that Mueller was not saying that he would have charged Trump with a crime but for the Office of Legal Counsel opinion and, in addition, a joint statement from the offices of Mueller and Barr in May reiterated that point.  

I've heard Barr make this statement on several occasions.  The dimwitted hack on the dais today is lying, I think.  I'm looking for that joint statement to see if it still exists on the web.

Not lied. Rather, as I suspected in my post, he simply misspoke and corrected it later in the hearings.

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Farmer77
Just now, Doc Socks Junior said:

The opinion of a different political party shouldn't affect the decision.  Unless it's purely political, in which case right and wrong is the wrong lens to view it through.

I almost agree with you. If Trump werent IMO such a threat I would 100% agree with you that starting impeachment proceedings is the right thing to do.

The problem is the "different party" doesnt think its wrong for the POTUS to order his staff to falsify documents and without their votes impeachment in the senate is impossible. So the democrats, including those running for office in 2020, only stand to make themselves look like losers by starting the process.

 

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ExpandMyMind
6 minutes ago, and then said:

That is a direct flip flop of what he told Barr and supposedly he told him in a joint statement.  If this is accurate, it will be presented as evidence that Mueller is lying.  

Or considering that it's in the report and Mueller has now confirmed it verbally, it's far more likely that Barr committed perjury.

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skliss
3 hours ago, ScotDeerie said:

I don't know. Did they then hire hit men? Withdraw money to pay off operatives?  Discuss plans to proceed with the act?  Buy a gun? Get caught on the way to the person's house with lethal weapons in the car and a manifesto on the front seat? There are degrees to anything and no blanket statement fits all occasions. But I'm sure you realize that, so why the overly simplified question?

Of course they didn't because it's a common figure of speech and I was just mirroring your hyperbole.

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, and then said:

As the president, he IS the Executive Branch of our government.  He runs that entire branch and has the authority to hire, with oversight by Congress in many cases, but he has unlimited authority to fire anyone for any reason.  He isn't a bellhop or a rubber stamp for another branch of government.  He is co-equal.  Firing the corrupt idiot Comey was long overdue and the investigation obviously never missed a beat.  It went on for two YEARS.  He wasn't indicted and Mueller made it clear to Barr that this action had nothing to do with the DoJ memo about indicting a sitting president.  All of this prolonged hysteria will most likely ensure his re-election next year.  WELL DONE!

Andthen this will be old news by next year.  It is not going to convince any Trump supporters to abandon ship or any Democrats or undecideds to lean toward President Trump.

What will get him reelected or defeated is most likely the state of the economy in another year.

Just like Hillary was poison for a lot of Democrats that either didn't vote or voted Trump or third party, President Trump may be in that role next time.  An unlikely, little known candidate may carry the banner  for people holding their noses and saying "At least he or she is not Trump."  I don't place the odds very high myself, but how good were the odds of President Trump beating Hillary?

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skliss
2 hours ago, and then said:

He seems like he may have had a stroke at some point.  From what I've seen, he's just accentuating his biased stance.  The guy simply refuses to answer pertinent questions about the role he played in the FISA warrant process.  He won't get to do that if Durham gets him in a witness box.

Agreed. 

I don't think he's had a stroke I just think he has a bad poker face. So do his henchmen behind him. Their body language has also been telling.

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Farmer77

I like the way Mueller cleaned this up

Quote
"Now before we go to questions, I want to add on correction to my testimony this morning. I want to go back to one thing that was said this morning by Mr. Lieu who said, and I quote, you didn't charge the President because of the OLC opinion. That is not the correct way to say it," Mueller said.

Mueller then corrected Lieu's wording: "As we say in the report, and as I said at the opening, we did not reach a determination as to whether the President committed a crime. With that, Mr. Chairman, I'm ready to answer questions."

 

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and then
15 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Andthen this will be old news by next year.  It is not going to convince any Trump supporters to abandon ship or any Democrats or undecideds to lean toward President Trump.

I agree but for the emphasis the media will keep focused on it.  The D's have put all their eggs into vilifying and crucifying Trump.  They literally have nothing of substance to offer except 20 dollars an hour pipedreams for people that already form their base.  I think an Impeachment drama will end their hopes not only for the Oval Office but for keeping the House, as well.  They really are so deep into hate and hysteria that they can't seem to pull out of the dive.  They are unable to grasp that the majority of the country simply don't mirror their feelings or outrage.  

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skliss
33 minutes ago, and then said:

Someone here lied.  Either it was the AG or Mueller:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/deja-vu-mueller-again-causes-confusion-on-his-reason-for-not-charging-trump

From the article - Barr said in April that Mueller told him that Mueller was not saying that he would have charged Trump with a crime but for the Office of Legal Counsel opinion and, in addition, a joint statement from the offices of Mueller and Barr in May reiterated that point.  

I've heard Barr make this statement on several occasions.  The dimwitted hack on the dais today is lying, I think.  I'm looking for that joint statement to see if it still exists on the web.

Or Mueller was confused...he didn't seem to know much of what was actually in the report at times.

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ExpandMyMind
1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Either way, it's pretty major. That soundbite alone will probably lead to impeachment proceedings.

Unless Mueller himself corrects it just over an hour later :lol:

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CrimsonKing

I honestly havn't seen anything new or compelling for either side...

Mueller can't seem to confirm,deny,or even answer many questions.

Guy is coming off as a demented old circus monkey!

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susieice
3 hours ago, ScotDeerie said:
...when House Democrats asked Mueller whether his report fully exonerated Trump, Mueller simply said “no.” Then they asked Mueller if it’s his view that Trump can be criminally indicted for obstruction of justice once he’s no longer in office. Mueller’s answer: “yes.”
 
OOPS.

Just means more years of this crap I have to listen to.

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Montmorency the Dog

Well, even the Democrats seem slightly disappointed. As someone on tweeter said: 

Much as I hate to say it, this morning’s hearing was a disaster. Far from breathing life into his damning report, the tired Robert Mueller sucked the life out of it. The effort to save democracy and the rule of law from this lawless president has been set back, not advanced.

:( 

(that was you, wasn't it, Farmer?) 

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susieice

Just a rehashing of the same old.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

We knew going into today's hearing that the dems have been running on a wing and a prayer for quite a while. 
And what did we see today...?  The democrats yelling, jumping up and down, flailing their arms. Empty suits. Ya, more of the same.

I really hope that the dems impeach Trump before the election. They haven't got a chance in the senate and all it will do is prove that the dems have failed over and over. 

Who would want these inept, one-note Johnny boobs in charge of America? 

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RavenHawk

What I have seen so far are two groups with two different visions.  One is stuck in a fantasy world and thinks that they've been vindicated and then there are those trying to deal with the real world seeking the truth.  All I can say, is I hope the Progs impeach Trump.

Seems that the Republicans are focusing on Vol 1.  It is established that there is no collusion or conspiracy.

Progs are focused on Vol 2.  If there is no collusion, there is no obstruction.  The President can fire the FBI Director and Special Counsel as he wishes.

No one is above the law, that includes the FBI Director, Special Counsel, or Progs.

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CrimsonKing

Well...i wonder how much tax dollars had to be spent to cram all those old farts into that chamber today,to get Mueller not to answer a ton of questions in his own report!

That was some kinda waste of time...

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