US Citizen held for weeks by CBP

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

@Farmer77, we are in much different times now. We are really taking in a lot of illegals. *Something* has to be done.

And BTW, the ICE organization and the laws they enforce were around long before 2016. the MSM is just trying to play on people's heart strings now. Where were they when Obama was in office? 

And BTW deux, when the hell is the democrat house going to do something about the mess on the southern border, besides b'yotch about it and hold the president up for blame?

The dems are just grandstanding, using the mess there as an election strategy, that's all. The dems will not offer any kind of help or resolution to the problems there until after 2020

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

And BTW, the ICE organization and the laws they enforce were around long before 2016. the MSM is just trying to play on people's heart strings now. Where were they when Obama was in office? 

Thats what youve been missing all along. At least for myself, there is no problem with enforcing our border laws. Obama was quite effective at deporting dangerous illegals, last I looked more effective than Trump in fact, all without creating a panic among the populace, being insulting or intentionally creating conditions that make people less safe.

If your goal is for ilegals to be treated meanly then absolutely Trumpism is the way to go. As for actually enforcing the law it however is completely unnecessary.

4 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

And BTW deux, when the hell is the democrat house going to do something about the mess on the southern border, besides b'yotch about it and hold the president up for blame?

So Trump intentionally slows down the asylum process causing a humanitarian mess, then intentionally separates kids from their parents in the hopes that being mean will make people turn around, then goes to court to argue that immigrants shouldnt get soap and toothpaste, all this after refusing to accept 25 Billion to build the wall and somehow its the House's mess to clean up?

Please explain

[+Hammerclaw]

3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Right. Its the when required that I am worried about, i.e stop and identify type laws. Again forest for the trees.

Nothing for an honest man to fear--what are you worried abouf?

[+Hammerclaw]

3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Zero.  Mexico recognizes dual citizenship, so any Mexican that became a US citizen is still a Mexican citizen.  These numbers are Americans without Mexican citizenship living there illegally.

So what? They spend their money there, enriching the economy. That's why the authorities give a wink and a nod. We did that for years, with migrant farm workers. The problem is, now everyone and their pet ferret are passing through Mexico to criminally enter. Times have changed. Even a Democrat President will have to deal with it, Just like Obama had to. Mexico allows duel citizenship but you only have the rights of a Mexican citizen while there. In case of any trouble, the consul of your other country can not intervene in any way.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Hammerclaw

[Farmer77]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Nothing for an honest man to fear--what are you worried abouf?

The founding fathers are puking in their caskets at that statement.

[+Hammerclaw]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

The founding fathers are puking in their caskets at that statement.

Just a bunch of old white slaveholders--nobody cares.

[Tatetopa]

22 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Nothing for an honest man to fear--what are you worried abouf?

Nothing to fear.  When you are at a restaurant eating with you family and several uniformed officers come to your table and ask to see papers for all of your family members, you might be a little concerned 

You could be walking your dog  in your own neighborhood or sitting in the local park wearing sweats with only your house key.   A squad car pulls up, one officer approaches you with his hand on his gun and the other stays behind the car covering you with a drawn weapon.  You are an honest man, no need to worry until they cuff you because you forgot proper ID and haul you down to the station and put you in a cell while they investigate.

I think that was Farmer's point, not being stopped doing 50 in a school zone in your red convertible and asked for your licence, or applying for a job and having to produce proof of citizenship..

[F3SS]

19 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Kinda sucks that you can't travel anywhere or do anything because the authorities can't confirm your identity or citizenship.  Even scarier that you could be detained and deported because of it.  I don't blame you of course.  A government that keeps saying they are doing things to protect its citizens should at least make a halfway effort to know who those citizens are.

If only we had a census question about citizenship.

In any case, this is yet another case of someone who doesn't have their life in order being used to make people doing an otherwise fantastic job look bad. 

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Nothing to fear.  When you are at a restaurant eating with you family and several uniformed officers come to your table and ask to see papers for all of your family members, you might be a little concerned 

You could be walking your dog  in your own neighborhood or sitting in the local park wearing sweats with only your house key.   A squad car pulls up, one officer approaches you with his hand on his gun and the other stays behind the car covering you with a drawn weapon.  You are an honest man, no need to worry until they cuff you because you forgot proper ID and haul you down to the station and put you in a cell while they investigate.

I think that was Farmer's point, not being stopped doing 50 in a school zone in your red convertible and asked for your licence, or applying for a job and having to produce proof of citizenship..

If that is what the law requires, it's no problem for me. I have no problem living in a nation of laws. I do have a problem with people who think they have a God given right to waltz in and nonchalantly break them. I'll take the way things are where I live over Portland or Seattle, any day. There's no masked hooligans roaming the streets here, assaulting people over politics as is permitted in those places. I see no reason to change anything to accomadate lawless entry into into our country either, your pathetic dystopian fantasies not withstanding. 

[skliss]

On 7/26/2019 at 10:24 PM, Tatetopa said:

Are you good with Gromdor's answer or would you like the list?  I admit my post was vague and deserved to be questioned.

It wasn't just you to be fair, I kept seeing "hundreds of immigration bills" and couldn't see how they had the time to draft and pass "hundreds". Plus I'm sure if we are being very fair they contain things unacceptable to Republicans or are so non bipartisan they have no hope of passing. But when I get some time I'll check his link.

[skliss]

2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Nothing to fear.  When you are at a restaurant eating with you family and several uniformed officers come to your table and ask to see papers for all of your family members, you might be a little concerned 

You could be walking your dog  in your own neighborhood or sitting in the local park wearing sweats with only your house key.   A squad car pulls up, one officer approaches you with his hand on his gun and the other stays behind the car covering you with a drawn weapon.  You are an honest man, no need to worry until they cuff you because you forgot proper ID and haul you down to the station and put you in a cell while they investigate.

I think that was Farmer's point, not being stopped doing 50 in a school zone in your red convertible and asked for your licence, or applying for a job and having to produce proof of citizenship..

Melodrama at its finest...lol

[Tatetopa]

35 minutes ago, skliss said:

Melodrama at its finest...lol

Skliss, we disagree on a lot of things, but I don't want to be disrespectful.  I think that is the way it is in some countries, and I think that is the way here if you are Black or Hispanic.   If you were out in your yard raking leaves and the cops drove up and demanded to know what you are doing and wanted to see your ID.  Surely you could just pull it out and satisfy them.  And maybe you would not think you had anything to fear if one of the officers was covering you with a weapon while you reached for your ID.

I can only guess whether I would be fearful or angry if that happened to me.  I would certainly  not think that is just the price for law and order, I would think it was government overreach.  

[Gromdor]

1 hour ago, F3SS said:

If only we had a census question about citizenship.

In any case, this is yet another case of someone who doesn't have their life in order being used to make people doing an otherwise fantastic job look bad. 

Honestly, do you carry around proof that your kids are yours and that they are US citizens?  I don't.  Do I need to start?

[Gromdor]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

If that is what the law requires, it's no problem for me. I have no problem living in a nation of laws. I do have a problem with people who think they have a God given right to waltz in and nonchalantly break them. I'll take the way things are where I live over Portland or Seattle, any day. There's no masked hooligans roaming the streets here, assaulting people over politics as is permitted in those places. I see no reason to change anything to accomadate lawless entry into into our country either, your pathetic dystopian fantasies not withstanding. 

If you truly believe in law, why not make Trump enforce immigration with current laws instead of complaining about congress not making new ones?  Management and enforcement fall on him after all, not congress.  You probably should speak up when he deviates from the law too.  Such as when he detains minors past the 72hrs as mandated by law.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

last I looked more effective than Trump in fact, all without creating a panic among the populace,

Well, hot damn, Farmer77, it's not Trump that is spreading panic amongst the populace, it is the dems and the MSM. The system has not changed, the people's attitudes have.

[Gromdor]

9 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, hot damn, Farmer77, it's not Trump that is spreading panic amongst the populace, it is the dems and the MSM. The system has not changed, the people's attitudes have.

I dunno, Republicans sure seem scared about the issue even though the numbers are still less that other periods historically.  He definitely is causing outrage with the Democrats with the inhumane conditions, I'll give you that.

[Michelle]

I don't know why people think it is fear. To me, it's common sense and always has been. What's funny is when Obama was explaining the reasons for cracking down on illegal immigration, which he did to a great extent, this whole uprising didn't happen. And don't tell me it's because Trump is spreading fear. Democrats voted for the wall time and time again...but now it's Trump.

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, Michelle said:

I don't know why people think it is fear. To me, it's common sense and always has been. What's funny is when Obama was explaining the reasons for cracking down on illegal immigration, which he did to a great extent, this whole uprising didn't happen. And don't tell me it's because Trump is spreading fear. Democrats voted for the wall time and time again...but now it's Trump.

Hmm.  Perhaps he is lacking in some quality that previous presidents had.  Whatever it is, it seems to be rendering him into a relatively inept president.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

If you truly believe in law, why not make Trump enforce immigration with current laws instead of complaining about congress not making new ones?  Management and enforcement fall on him after all, not congress.  You probably should speak up when he deviates from the law too.  Such as when he detains minors past the 72hrs as mandated by law.

As their parents are detained, it puts the government in the position of loco parentis and thus it's actions are quite legal, no different than that to children of any other criminal.

Trump is enforcing the laws--that's what all the whining is about. If Congress doesn't like the current laws, the onus is on them to make better ones.

[Gromdor]

8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

As their parents are detained, it puts the government in the position of loco parentis and thus it's actions are quite legal, no different than that to children of any other criminal.

Trump is enforcing the laws--that's what all the whining is about. If Congress doesn't like the current laws, the onus is on them to make better ones.

Ah, you seem to be misinterpreting what is going on then.  Loco parentis and the current law requires minors to be not caged for longer than 72 hrs by the CBP. https://psmag.com/news/what-laws-protect-detained-children-from-mistreatment-on-the-border

"According to the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act—a bill signed into law by President George W. Bush in 2008—children cannot be held by CBP for more than 72 hours. After those three days, they must be transferred to the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement, the division of the Department of Health and Human Services in charge of unaccompanied children."

You should read the article, it mentions the various ways Trump is trying to bypass or ignore the laws.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Ah, you seem to be misinterpreting what is going on then.  Loco parentis and the current law requires minors to be not caged for longer than 72 hrs by the CBP. https://psmag.com/news/what-laws-protect-detained-children-from-mistreatment-on-the-border

"According to the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act—a bill signed into law by President George W. Bush in 2008—children cannot be held by CBP for more than 72 hours. After those three days, they must be transferred to the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement, the division of the Department of Health and Human Services in charge of unaccompanied children."

You should read the article, it mentions the various ways Trump is trying to bypass or ignore the laws.

 What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You should look into how Sanctuary cities flout federal law to harbor and protect criminal illegals. 

[Gromdor]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

 What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You should look into how Sanctuary cities flout federal law to harbor and protect criminal illegals. 

So, now it's who cares about the rule of law? 

[Michelle]

By definition, an unaccompanied alien child (UAC):

• Has no lawful immigration status in the United States
• Is under 18 years of age
• Has no parent or legal guardian in the United States or no parent or legal guardian in the United States is available to provide care and physical custody

Following apprehension by a federal agency (usually the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)), UAC are transferred to the care and custody of ORR while awaiting immigration proceedings.

ORR promptly places an UAC in the least restrictive setting that is in the best interests of the child, taking into consideration danger to self, danger to the community, and risk of flight. ORR looks at each child’s unique situation and incorporates child welfare principles when making placement, clinical, case management, and release decisions that are in the best interest of the child.

https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/programs/ucs/about

So, basically juvie?

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, Michelle said:

By definition, an unaccompanied alien child (UAC):

• Has no lawful immigration status in the United States
• Is under 18 years of age
• Has no parent or legal guardian in the United States or no parent or legal guardian in the United States is available to provide care and physical custody

Following apprehension by a federal agency (usually the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)), UAC are transferred to the care and custody of ORR while awaiting immigration proceedings.

ORR promptly places an UAC in the least restrictive setting that is in the best interests of the child, taking into consideration danger to self, danger to the community, and risk of flight. ORR looks at each child’s unique situation and incorporates child welfare principles when making placement, clinical, case management, and release decisions that are in the best interest of the child.

https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/programs/ucs/about

So, basically juvie?

Yeah more or less.  They are supposed to get showers, toothbrushes, beds, etc as per the Flores Act as well.  Toddlers in a CBP cell with 60 other people and no wash, no beds(or even dimming of lights), or even diapers for a month is a big no no by US law.  They are supposed to be out of there within 72hrs.

[Michelle]

Just now, Gromdor said:

Yeah more or less.  They are supposed to get showers, toothbrushes, beds, etc as per the Flores Act as well.  Toddlers in a CBP cell with 60 other people and no wash, no beds(or even dimming of lights), or even diapers for a month is a big no no by US law.  They are supposed to be out of there within 72hrs.

I see you don't read a wide variety of news sources. That has been debunked by several news stations and politicians...video included.