Large interstellar debris fields

[Skulduggery]

Buckle up! One thing I have often wondered about over the years is the existence of potentially catastrophic fields of debris coming into contact with our solar system. The types of things we can’t readily observe through either the ISM or the darkness of interstellar space itself.

Let’s say (hypothetically) an ancient star went bang in a big way long before this planet existed or even this solar system existed—far, far away, expelling a rather giant amount of rocky debris in several directions—well, it would be moving at a very high rate of speed in relation to us. As this galaxy spins, everything we know of in our region of space is moving in relation to whatever may be “dark” to us hurtling through interstellar space.

‘Oumuamua is an example of this phenomenon, though its origins remain unknown. Has there yet been any major scientific study of the possibility of the solar system and even much of the Orion arm being assailed by a very large and hitherto unknown field of large, speeding debri? The timing would have to be dreadfully precise, yet I don’t see this being a total impossibility.

It doesn’t seem to get talked about much, at least as far as the internet goes, but would not that be a real possibility? It may have been from another galaxy. With the universe estimated to be over thirteen billion years old, that would mean it definitely could be possible I would imagine, even if this type of event was a rarity. Nothing much could slow that kind of thing down as large fields of errant debris just hurtles through the cosmos.

I would like to know specifically what are some thoughts on this type of hypothetical cataclysm and also how much rocky debris is estimated to get flung into space by supernovae. I have never seen research papers on this type of thing. Just some thoughts and musings.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Skulduggery
Added “Buckle up!” for comical effect.

[Skulduggery]

Any grammatical errors I blame on the Scotch whisky and rum.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Skulduggery

[Skulduggery]

I am not implying this type of thing is likely. It is not, but I am wondering how possible it could be. The space between objects in space is vast, and even if this was to occur, most things would pass right through without impact. One does have to look at ‘Oumuamua, though, and realize how close that came to this planet on an astronomical scale.

I don’t know about any of this, but it is something I’ve wondered about. There would be countless variables. It is something I don’t normally see talked about and thought it would be fun to throw it up on here and see what some others with more knowledge of the universe may think. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Skulduggery

[zep73]

You have only failed to see one thing, @Skulduggery, and that is how incredibly small the Earth is in that context.

It is just a tiny speck of dust. The hit would be more 'miraculous' than any miss.

And we are still much more endangered by the asteroid belt of our own solar system.

[Skulduggery]

3 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

You have only failed to see one thing, @Skulduggery, and that is how incredibly small the Earth is in that context.

It is just a tiny speck of dust. The hit would be more 'miraculous' than any miss.

And we are still much more endangered by the asteroid belt of our own solar system.

Am aware of that. The comment I just left illustrates that. If one single interstellar object flies through as close as ’Oumuamua did, that is still astoundingly close by astronomical standards. It may be an unlikely threat, but still something worth mulling over.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Skulduggery

[zep73]

16 minutes ago, Skulduggery said:

Am aware of that. The comment I just left illustrates that. If one single interstellar object flies through as close as ‘Oumuamusing did, that is still astoundingly close by astronomical standards. It may be an unlikely threat, but still something worth mulling over.

If the worst happens, either we will deal with it, or we will die. Worrying will do no good,

 

[Skulduggery]

Pretty much.

[Skulduggery]

@sci-nerd I correct a phone-related autocorrect typo and then you go and quote me with the original typo intact. SMDH. For the record, I don’t know what an ‘Oumuamusing is but my phone seemed to have that stored somehow. It sounds like a bad strain of marijuana.

[qxcontinuum]

You're up to something with the exception that a major cataclysm has already happened, one which wiped out Mars atmosphere creating the asteroid belt and Saturn's rings who consequently had wiped out dinosaurs on earth. There is an alternative theory speculating that between Mars and jupiter there was another planet or a satellite. 

Oumuama was not 100% a natural object,  the astronomical world is divided, it accelerated in a way no other celestial bodies will do came out of nowhere, had a shape and luminous metallic index. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by qxcontinuum

[Skulduggery]

1 hour ago, qxcontinuum said:

Oumuamua was not 100% a natural object,  the astronomical world is divided, it accelerated in a way no other celestial bodies will do came out of nowhere, had a shape and luminous metallic index. 

I don’t want to comment on this, but let’s just peacefully disagree. Quite sure it is natural.

Also, this topic isn’t asking how likely something like this scenario could be (it isn’t likely), but rather are there any faults in the logistics of large debris fields potentially slamming into a galaxy from interstellar space, even if the odds of a strike to a planet or any galactic body is infinitesimally small, and is there any real research out there on the suspected amount of mass a supernova will throw into space? Likewise, what type of speeds would ejected mass have? Looking for real research on this subject.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Skulduggery

[Waspie_Dwarf]

On 7/28/2019 at 5:46 AM, qxcontinuum said:

You're up to something with the exception that a major cataclysm has already happened, one which wiped out Mars atmosphere creating the asteroid belt and Saturn's rings who consequently had wiped out dinosaurs on earth. There is an alternative theory speculating that between Mars and jupiter there was another planet or a satellite. 

Oumuama was not 100% a natural object,  the astronomical world is divided, it accelerated in a way no other celestial bodies will do came out of nowhere, had a shape and luminous metallic index. 

This is the science section qx, your nonsense has no scientific value at all. It is not supported by observation or basis any any know scientific laws. No matter how many times you try to hijack thread with your drivel it will not suddenly turn into fact, it will always remain drivel.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

On 7/27/2019 at 11:51 PM, Skulduggery said:

Am aware of that. The comment I just left illustrates that. If one single interstellar object flies through as close as ’Oumuamua did, that is still astoundingly close by astronomical standards. It may be an unlikely threat, but still something worth mulling over.

One single object posses little threat at all. It is believed that thousands of interstellar objects are passing through the solar system at any given time, and despite that we have only definitively identified one. It is, pf course possible that an interstellar object could collide with the Earth, just as it is possible that an Oort cloud comet on it's first pass through the solar system could hit the Earth, but for each individual object the chances are vanishingly small.

Even though there may be thousands of interstellar objects passing through, the vast majority will be too few to cause damage. Now compare that to the millions of comet like objects that orbit the sun and you will see that interstellar objects are of negligible threat compared to objects from within our own solar system.

In your original post you said this:

On 7/27/2019 at 11:11 PM, Skulduggery said:

One thing I have often wondered about over the years is the existence of potentially catastrophic fields of debris coming into contact with our solar system.

Well such debris clouds are extremely unlikely, and you gave the reason for this yourself:

 

On 7/27/2019 at 11:11 PM, Skulduggery said:

far, far away, expelling a rather giant amount of rocky debris in several directions

As sci-nerd pointed out space is really big. It's way bigger than you seem to have implied in your original post.

Ignoring the fact that a cataclysmic explosion capable of launching debris over interstellar distances is likely to obliterate most of the material in the first place, then it is likely to spread debris in many/all directions. If individual debris components had differences in trajectories of even tiniest fraction of a degree, or tiny differences in initial velocities, over the vast distance between stars they will spread out.further and further. By the time that the reached our solar system they would be so spread out that most would miss completely with only a few passing through.

The only reason that you get debris fields in space, like the asteroid belt, or planetary rings, is because they are held together by the gravitational field of the sun/planet they are orbiting. There are no such objects in interstellar space.

There is a realistic threat to the solar system from interstellar objects (but not in the next few thousand years)... and that is from passing stars. If a star passes close enough it can disturb the objects in the Oort cloud. Many Oort cloud objects are expelled from the solar system to become interstellar wanderers (maybe to become an ‘Oumuamua like object to an alien race one day). Others are sent inwards to the inner solar system, This influx of comets can dramatically increase the chances of an impact.

[+Desertrat56]

On 7/27/2019 at 4:11 PM, Skulduggery said:

Buckle up! One thing I have often wondered about over the years is the existence of potentially catastrophic fields of debris coming into contact with our solar system. The types of things we can’t readily observe through either the ISM or the darkness of interstellar space itself.

Let’s say (hypothetically) an ancient star went bang in a big way long before this planet existed or even this solar system existed—far, far away, expelling a rather giant amount of rocky debris in several directions—well, it would be moving at a very high rate of speed in relation to us. As this galaxy spins, everything we know of in our region of space is moving in relation to whatever may be “dark” to us hurtling through interstellar space.

‘Oumuamua is an example of this phenomenon, though its origins remain unknown. Has there yet been any major scientific study of the possibility of the solar system and even much of the Orion arm being assailed by a very large and hitherto unknown field of large, speeding debri? The timing would have to be dreadfully precise, yet I don’t see this being a total impossibility.

It doesn’t seem to get talked about much, at least as far as the internet goes, but would not that be a real possibility? It may have been from another galaxy. With the universe estimated to be over thirteen billion years old, that would mean it definitely could be possible I would imagine, even if this type of event was a rarity. Nothing much could slow that kind of thing down as large fields of errant debris just hurtles through the cosmos.

I would like to know specifically what are some thoughts on this type of hypothetical cataclysm and also how much rocky debris is estimated to get flung into space by supernovae. I have never seen research papers on this type of thing. Just some thoughts and musings.

Check out this link.  This array spans most of the U.S, with a large array system in Chile and elsewhere, if anything is moving towards our solar system these will be the people who see it first.  They are studying the universe at many different light frequencies to get as a complete a picture as possible and they move the arrays every 4 months year round.

http://www.vla.nrao.edu/

 

[+Desertrat56]

On 7/27/2019 at 4:47 PM, Skulduggery said:

I am not implying this type of thing is likely. It is not, but I am wondering how possible it could be. The space between objects in space is vast, and even if this was to occur, most things would pass right through without impact. One does have to look at ‘Oumuamua, though, and realize how close that came to this planet on an astronomical scale.

I don’t know about any of this, but it is something I’ve wondered about. There would be countless variables. It is something I don’t normally see talked about and thought it would be fun to throw it up on here and see what some others with more knowledge of the universe may think. 

I would be more concerned about all the junk left in orbit by all the space stations, satelites, rocket launches etc.

[Skulduggery]

Before I start quoting people/responding/doing the usual things, let me clarify something. I said something along the lines of potentially catastrophic but never said anything about an impact to this planet. If an object the size of Neptune or Uranus, going extremely fast, passes through the solar system and slams into Jupiter, that would still be catastrophic, yet still would be unlikely to ever occur. I am not concerned with the odds because it wouldn’t be likely to ever occur. Also not concerned with what we would do about it. I am not thinking like a lame Hollywood blockbuster disaster movie here. I just wanted to discuss whether or not if large debris fields in interstellar space exist and looking for research on mass and speeds of mass ejected by supernovae.Stuff like that.

 

[EDIT: by saying an object colliding with Jupiter, I am vehemently NOT saying that is even likely, but using this to illustrate I mean elsewhere in the solar system or galaxy.]

Edited July 29, 2019 by Skulduggery

[Skulduggery]

6 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I would be more concerned about all the junk left in orbit by all the space stations, satelites, rocket launches etc.

This isn’t about the threat level or how much to be concerned. It is about any scientific research on the existence of large-scale objects, debris from supernovae darting through interstellar space. This is not about Earth or whether or not anyone should be concerned. I think when I use words like “catastrophic”, people assume I am writing a post asking whether or not this is a threat to Earth. This is a fallacious idea of what I am talking about. I am not concerned with odds (they are slim) and I am not talking about this planet. I am not asking a what-if. This is not a what-if. It is a query into any scientific research into the existence (or possible speeds) of debris fields in interstellar space. Nothing like that would likely ever come very close to Earth, let alone the solar system. I just would like to mull over any old scientific research on the subject of any exists.

[Skulduggery]

7 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

One single object posses little threat at all. It is believed that thousands of interstellar objects are passing through the solar system at any given time, and despite that we have only definitively identified one. It is, pf course possible that an interstellar object could collide with the Earth, just as it is possible that an Oort cloud comet on it's first pass through the solar system could hit the Earth, but for each individual object the chances are vanishingly small.

Even though there may be thousands of interstellar objects passing through, the vast majority will be too few to cause damage. Now compare that to the millions of comet like objects that orbit the sun and you will see that interstellar objects are of negligible threat compared to objects from within our own solar system.

In your original post you said this:

Well such debris clouds are extremely unlikely, and you gave the reason for this yourself:

 

As sci-nerd pointed out space is really big. It's way bigger than you seem to have implied in your original post.

Ignoring the fact that a cataclysmic explosion capable of launching debris over interstellar distances is likely to obliterate most of the material in the first place, then it is likely to spread debris in many/all directions. If individual debris components had differences in trajectories of even tiniest fraction of a degree, or tiny differences in initial velocities, over the vast distance between stars they will spread out.further and further. By the time that the reached our solar system they would be so spread out that most would miss completely with only a few passing through.

The only reason that you get debris fields in space, like the asteroid belt, or planetary rings, is because they are held together by the gravitational field of the sun/planet they are orbiting. There are no such objects in interstellar space.

There is a realistic threat to the solar system from interstellar objects (but not in the next few thousand years)... and that is from passing stars. If a star passes close enough it can disturb the objects in the Oort cloud. Many Oort cloud objects are expelled from the solar system to become interstellar wanderers (maybe to become an ‘Oumuamua like object to an alien race one day). Others are sent inwards to the inner solar system, This influx of comets can dramatically increase the chances of an impact.

Again, this isn’t about threat level, particularly not to this planet. This is not a what-if. 

I never mentioned Earth. So, the rest of your post misses the point. This is whether or not any scientific research has gone into debris fields in interstellar space. Sci-nerd was unaware I wasn’t asking about the likelihood. I am already aware the amount of space between objects in space and the likelihood of anything in a debris field passing through this solar system is unbelievably small. That was already inherent in my first two posts. This isn’t about that.

This is about whether or not there has been scientific research into mass expelled by supernovae and how much/speed and whether there could exist fast-moving debris fields in space. Just because I say slam into our area of the galaxy, I am not talking about threat. I am using the word “catastrophic” no to mean catastrophic to life or this planet, or any planets. I consider threats as being terribly unlikely.

This isn’t about this being something dangerous to this planet. But, I am wondering if there are any old research papers on the existence of interstellar debris fields.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Skulduggery

[Skulduggery]

6 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Check out this link.  This array spans most of the U.S, with a large array system in Chile and elsewhere, if anything is moving towards our solar system these will be the people who see it first.  They are studying the universe at many different light frequencies to get as a complete a picture as possible and they move the arrays every 4 months year round.

http://www.vla.nrao.edu/

 

Am aware of this. But again, this thread was never about threats to Earth. Nor is it concerned with the odds or potentiality. I was asking about whether there could be flaws in the logic that debris fields in interstellar space exist. Not about this being a threat to this planet. As @Waspie_Dwarf pointed out, a lot of it would be obliterated by the supernova blast anyway. That was a good thing to mention. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Skulduggery

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, Skulduggery said:

This isn’t about the threat level or how much to be concerned. It is about any scientific research on the existence of large-scale objects, debris from supernovae darting through interstellar space. This is not about Earth or whether or not anyone should be concerned. I think when I use words like “catastrophic”, people assume I am writing a post asking whether or not this is a threat to Earth. This is a fallacious idea of what I am talking about. I am not concerned with odds (they are slim) and I am not talking about this planet. I am not asking a what-if. This is not a what-if. It is a query into any scientific research into the existence (or possible speeds) of debris fields in interstellar space. Nothing like that would likely ever come very close to Earth, let alone the solar system. I just would like to mull over any old scientific research on the subject of any exists.

OK.  So a previous post I made in this thread gave you a link to a scientific organization that is doing that research, or as close to what you are describing can be done.  There is not a lot of "old" research as we only are now in the last 50 or so years developed equipment that can do the research.  So, go to that website and it will lead you to others that you might be interested in.

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, Skulduggery said:

Am aware of this. But again, this thread was never about threats to Earth. Nor is it concerned with the odds or potentiality. I was asking about whether there could be flaws in the logic that debris fields in interstellar space exist. Not about this being a threat to this planet. As @Waspie_Dwarf pointed out, a lot of it would be obliterated by the supernova blast anyway. That was a good thing to mention. 

Right, so, go to the link, they are the ones doing the research.  You mentioned catastrophic so I (along with others) thought you were worrying about something. 

[Skulduggery]

28 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Right, so, go to the link, they are the ones doing the research.  You mentioned catastrophic so I (along with others) thought you were worrying about something. 

NAAAAAHHH I don’t go to links. I want scans of thousands of research papers going back to the ‘50s (even the unpublished ones) posted here.

JK. The link is all good.