Hero or Villain: Assange

[Gwynbleidd]

This is Part One of a Two Part documentary on Wikileaks/Julian Assange by the Australian Broadcasting Commission (ABC) Four Corners [46mins].  Published on 22nd July 2019. Part Two will be available next week.   Finally, an up to date story retracing the history of Assange/Wikileaks and the people behind the scenes.  Assange is described in many ways, but one of the most common words used in this doco was narcissist.  Their description of him isn't hard to believe and definitely creates further insight into Assange by people who know him. 

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Julian Assange is one of the most influential figures to emerge this century. The Australian born founder of WikiLeaks has harnessed the technology of the digital age to unleash an information war against governments and corporations. WikiLeaks has collaborated with anonymous sources to release highly classified and often deeply embarrassing information to the world.

The organisation exploded onto the world stage in 2010 when it began publishing a series of spectacular leaks laying bare the conduct of the United States. At the centre of it all was Julian Assange. The leaks sparked ferocious debate over the right to know and the right to keep secrets. Now Julian Assange is in the fight of his life. In April this year he was dragged, protesting, from the Ecuadorian Embassy in London, nearly seven years after seeking diplomatic protection. He is facing extradition to the United States on espionage charges stemming from the spectacular 2010 leaks by Private Chelsea Manning. Everyone has an opinion about Julian Assange, but now you will hear from those who have been on the inside.

Four Corners investigates the prosecution of Julian Assange in key interviews with those at the heart of WikiLeaks and those who have sought to bring him to US justice. These insider accounts give powerful insights into how these momentous events have unfolded.

What is your opinion on Julian Assange?  Hero or Villain?

 

Mods: If I've managed to pop this in the wrong place as I wasn't quite sure where to put this as it is relative to current events but also a 2 part documentary, please move it thanks    

[Grim Reaper 6]

21 minutes ago, pixiii said:

This is Part One of a Two Part documentary on Wikileaks/Julian Assange by the Australian Broadcasting Commission (ABC) Four Corners [46mins].  Published on 22nd July 2019. Part Two will be available next week.   Finally, an up to date story retracing the history of Assange/Wikileaks and the people behind the scenes.  Assange is described in many ways, but one of the most common words used in this doco was narcissist.  Their description of him isn't hard to believe and definitely creates further insight into Assange by people who know him. 

What is your opinion on Julian Assange?  Hero or Villain?

 

Mods: If I've managed to pop this in the wrong place as I wasn't quite sure where to put this as it is relative to current events but also a 2 part documentary, please move it thanks    

That's a question that is based upon personal opinion, I am uncertain how history will portray him. I think he made a mistake, but I don't think he new what the out come of his actions would be. So in the end some are going to view him as a hero at great personal cost, and others will see him as a villain either could be correct.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Manwon Lender

[RAyMO]

42 minutes ago, pixiii said:

What is your opinion on Julian Assange?  Hero or Villain?

Neither - just an idiot.

[Farmer77]

2 hours ago, pixiii said:

What is your opinion on Julian Assange?  Hero or Villain?

Both and neither. I appreciate the advertised concept behind Wikileaks however his own personal bias' , and  his bank account, have made it so he himself has destroyed the concept by dragging it down into the same slimy depths as any other biased source of information.

The fact that that bias is at least in part financially motivated by hostile foreign actors moves him from political operative to national security threat.

 

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

The fact he ran from police investigating rape allegations will forever tarnish him in my eye. 

[Gwynbleidd]

I'll post the 2nd episode in this thread when it becomes available. 

IMO, he's both heroic in some areas and quite villainous in others.  I don't agree with the way he does things and I've often thought if something had've happened to him in that Ecuadorian Embassy (and even now that he's in prison) he's always given me the impression he would think of himself as a martyr.  I admire what he was initially trying to do by bringing to our attention issues that weren't being reported, although on the flipside, perhaps there are reasons we're not meant to know about these things?  He could've definitely gone about things differently in hindsight that's for sure.  He just has that arrogance about him where absolutely nothing would stop him from doing something if he got it into his head.  A wee bit reckless imo. 

[+Hammerclaw]

A trouble-maker and a coward, thoroughly contemptible, a glorified sneak-thief and nothing more.

[Gwynbleidd]

Part 2 came out and I'll just post it here in case anyone else is interested.  It's not pro-Assange in any way, just part 2 of this series the Australian Broadcasting Commissions Four Corners tv show here in Oz is currently doing [42mins].  

After watching this episode, it's got me rethinking the rape accusations against him in Sweden.  What a strange story behind the scenes from their witnesses.  

Quote

"He was arrested in his absence" the Duty Prosecutor said. 

But apparently, that's quite normal in Sweden. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by pixiii

[Alchopwn]

I don't see Julian Assange as either a hero or a villain.  I actually met him in a Goth nightclub in Melbourne Australia when I was in country during the early 90s when he was in the middle of his hacker phase.  He has had an interesting life.

Most people are unaware that Julian was raised within a cult   The Family- (not a new age group... it's a frikkin' cult).  Thankfully his mom had the wherewithall to **** eventually.  Julian is more than a little on the aspbergers spectrum, but high functioning, and he became involved in the Melbourne hacker scene in his teens and was released on a good behavior bond in 1996 after an infamous trial.  I think he had always been a bit political, and I think that his experience with the law made him moreso, and he became very involved in campaigning for cyber freedom, which led him on the path to wikileaks.

I think Julian's attitude towards authority is a bit Quixotic, with him being the Don, and authority being the windmill.  Then again he grew up in an oppressive authoritarian cult, so I can see where it comes from.

As far as the Swedish rape charges go, frankly I would never willingly allow anyone to be subjected to the Swedish legal system, as it is extremely perverse, and a true outlier in terms of how national judiciaries operate.  For example, if you are involved in a solo car accident while in your car on your own, and you die in Sweden, it is ruled a suicide and your family cannot receive insurance.  Its rape laws have been vilified by Amnesty as providing too many loopholes, but also for having some very odd rules relating to what does or doesn't constitute consent.  Personally, I would NEVER have sex with anyone in Sweden without first seeking legal advice, and even then cross your fingers for good luck (and so you can then say in court "I know I said I gave consent but I had my fingers crossed at the time, so I didn't... Given that it's a Swedish court, it would probably hold up; no take backs!).

I think the Ecuadorean claims that Assange smeared **** on the walls in the Embassy is untrue.  I also think they should have done more to extract him.  I also think the Australian Government bears a heavy responsibility for being so compliant in throwing him to the wolves.

Is what Assange did so very wrong?  I don't think so.  I don't think that anyone lost their lives as a result of what was published in Wikileaks, except as an indirect result of the role Wikileaks played in triggering the Arab Spring.  I think that uncovering war crimes and bringing them to public attention is important, and I think that what we are really seeing is the media corporations conspiring with the media to remove a competitor who was engaged in real journalism, something we don't see enough of these days, with our largely homogenous news coverage. 

 

[Sir Smoke aLot]

With so much politics involved... Whole story is fiction to me. Politics profited around his case. I can't remember any advance in freedom and liberty which is result of his work. Or that of Snowden. Or any media child.

Freedom fighters tend to die young.

[-Homer-]

He's definitely no villain in my opinion. While he does seem like a self-centered narcissistic, his work in exposing information--regardless how it's obtained--is commendable in my opinion. To me, 'national security' is simply defending and maintaining the status quo, and I'm all for exposing this information. The U.S. government--and the Central Bank which owns it--are the biggest terrorist organization on earth. There are no U.S. troops fighting for freedom and democracy. There is no country attacking us. We create 'bad guys' and give the propaganda machines(media) the scripts to paint the picture to manipulate the sheeple into supporting military or economic actions against sovereign nations. 

 

They give us sports and movies and recreational parks and fashion and music so we can spend money and be entertained and distracted... while manufacturing divisions among us in the form of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation to keep us fighting each other instead of uniting against the system that oppresses us. 

 

We need more people like him, regardless of his emotional whims. And those sexual allegations? Only a fool would believe what the government says. The government is so sophisticated it can create a video of me at a location I've never been, having audio of words I've never spoken, having witnesses against me that have never seen me...the sexual allegations should have no part in this conversation.

[skookum]

I couldn't give a monkey's what Assange is. All that is annoying me is he chose the UK as a place to fight his corner. Before all of this we had zero interest in him or his Wikileaks. But it has cost the UK millions of pounds and yet again we have been left carrying a very large bag of poo for orher countries. Wish he could have his stand in Australia as it is his country if origin rather than us get get caught up in this weirdos affairs 

[aztek]

out of these 2 choices, hero

[Gwynbleidd]

On 7/29/2019 at 10:35 PM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

With so much politics involved... Whole story is fiction to me. Politics profited around his case. I can't remember any advance in freedom and liberty which is result of his work. Or that of Snowden. Or any media child.

Freedom fighters tend to die young.

Why do you think the US doesn't chase Snowden like they do Assange?

The US threatens and screams TREASON at Assange but he's not a US citizen - but Snowden is.  I've never understood what must be a massive difference in what either of these guys did.  Perhaps the US just finds Assange more problematic than Snowden long term as Snowden's safe and sound in Russia.

Edited August 23, 2019 by pixiii

[Gwynbleidd]

On 8/14/2019 at 12:27 AM, skookum said:

I couldn't give a monkey's what Assange is. All that is annoying me is he chose the UK as a place to fight his corner. Before all of this we had zero interest in him or his Wikileaks. But it has cost the UK millions of pounds and yet again we have been left carrying a very large bag of poo for orher countries. Wish he could have his stand in Australia as it is his country if origin rather than us get get caught up in this weirdos affairs 

We wish the Australian govt would've moved him back here too.  They ignored the pleas.  

[Gwynbleidd]

On 7/29/2019 at 9:55 PM, Alchopwn said:

As far as the Swedish rape charges go, frankly I would never willingly allow anyone to be subjected to the Swedish legal system, as it is extremely perverse, and a true outlier in terms of how national judiciaries operate.  For example, if you are involved in a solo car accident while in your car on your own, and you die in Sweden, it is ruled a suicide and your family cannot receive insurance.  Its rape laws have been vilified by Amnesty as providing too many loopholes, but also for having some very odd rules relating to what does or doesn't constitute consent.  Personally, I would NEVER have sex with anyone in Sweden without first seeking legal advice, and even then cross your fingers for good luck (and so you can then say in court "I know I said I gave consent but I had my fingers crossed at the time, so I didn't... Given that it's a Swedish court, it would probably hold up; no take backs!).

I don't believe he raped anyone now after watching those interviews of the witnesses and seeing the tweets that woman sent out. 

1. Yeeeeeeea....woman meets Assange
2. sleeps with Assange consensually
3. hangs out Assange all day long
4. goes to a social gathering for dinner that night with Assange
5. woman tweets from the party saying she's having the most wonderful night with the smartest and most intellectual people on the planet!
6. woman tells others at the party that Assange is staying at her house when someone else offers him a bed for the night
7. woman goes home sleeps with Assange yet again consensually
8. Both go their separate ways in the morning

Assange hooks up with another woman consensually the next night (that the first woman also knew of)..........

Woman from previous night finds out and immediately says RAPE.

Hmm.  A case of jealousy perhaps.  But I definitely do not see this as rape.

[Golden Duck]

1 hour ago, pixiii said:

I don't believe he raped anyone now after watching those interviews of the witnesses and seeing the tweets that woman sent out. 

1. Yeeeeeeea....woman meets Assange
2. sleeps with Assange consensually
3. hangs out Assange all day long
4. goes to a social gathering for dinner that night with Assange
5. woman tweets from the party saying she's having the most wonderful night with the smartest and most intellectual people on the planet!
6. woman tells others at the party that Assange is staying at her house when someone else offers him a bed for the night
7. woman goes home sleeps with Assange yet again consensually
8. Both go their separate ways in the morning

Assange hooks up with another woman consensually the next night (that the first woman also knew of)..........

Woman from previous night finds out and immediately says RAPE.

Hmm.  A case of jealousy perhaps.  But I definitely do not see this as rape.

Her feelings were hurt because of a sexual act she didn't want to happen.

[Unusual Tournament]

32 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Her feelings were hurt because of a sexual act she didn't want to happen.

Probably something you shouldn’t speculate about out loud. Just sayin

[Gwynbleidd]

I must be missing something major because I cannot figure out why the US isn't chasing down Snowden like they do Assange.  Snowden's one of their own.  Or are they scared of rocking the boat because Snowden's hanging out with Putin? It's so strange. 

Oh I've got to admit something publicly - We actually voted for Assange (The Wikileaks Party) the other year when it came up in the election.  Shows how bad our other politicians are here huh  

Edited August 23, 2019 by pixiii

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, pixiii said:

I must be missing something major because I cannot figure out why the US isn't chasing down Snowden like they do Assange.  Snowden's one of their own.  Or are they scared of rocking the boat because Snowden's hanging out with Putin? It's so strange.  

Its Russia. The US chased Snowden down quite intensely but he was able to reach Russia before they could get their hands on him. Once there there isnt much the US can do.

 

[Gwynbleidd]

10 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Its Russia. The US chased Snowden down quite intensely but he was able to reach Russia before they could get their hands on him. Once there there isnt much the US can do.

 

That's what I thought but I really didn't think it'd be THAT simple tbh Farmer.  I've often wondered why on earth Assange didn't flee to Russia, I'm sure Putin would have taken any people in and greeted them with open arms if it means it'll ping the US off.  But no, I think Assange enjoys playing the victim to a certain extent and likes to remain in the public eye with some sort of drama, so remained in the UK.  

Edited August 23, 2019 by pixiii

[Gwynbleidd]

Plus the other thing that always bothered me about the Australian Govt to do with Assange is they never supported him whatsoever.  They didn't want to have anything to do with Assange.  They acted as if they were scared to do anything because it would ultimately affect Australia's international relationships with both the UK and the USA. 

And you know, these weak Aussie politicians can't have that.  I used to think how awful it would've been to be an Australian citizen overseas and you get into trouble and your own country doesn't even help you.  I realise there's a lot more to it than that, but he was a young guy with these huge aspirations to change the world's media into a somewhat more transparent place for the public but it all went down the drain.  If only he had've thought things through initially and carried it out a little differently.  Sigh. Hindsight again.

[Phaeton80]

Given all variables, Id have to conclude controlled opposition.

[Farmer77]

5 minutes ago, pixiii said:

That's what I thought but I really didn't think it'd be THAT simple tbh Farmer. 

Its a pretty cool story. Snowden hid out in a ghetto in Hong Kong (IIRC, mighta been taiwan ) while his people negotiated with a couple of non extradition treaty countries. I still havent seen the movie but will someday. 

14 minutes ago, pixiii said:

I've often wondered why on earth Assange didn't flee to Russia, I'm sure Putin would have taken any people in and greeted them with open arms if it means it'll ping the US off.  But no, I think Assange enjoys playing the victim to a certain extent and likes to remain in the public eye with some sort of drama, so remained in the UK.  

Part of me says thats just pure ego ,Assange didnt think he would lose the rape case in sweden so he didnt have a plan, and part of me thinks that's just the difference between a trained intelligence asset with resources and a hacker/pop culture personality.

[Gwynbleidd]

8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Its a pretty cool story. Snowden hid out in a ghetto in Hong Kong (IIRC, mighta been taiwan ) while his people negotiated with a couple of non extradition treaty countries. I still havent seen the movie but will someday. 

Oh I've seen the movie, and if truth be told, I've never really looked into Snowden news-wise.  I was brainwashed by the movie shall we say!   

I know I was chatting to a friend in Hawaii about it and he's in the US Navy and said don't dare talk to me about that b****** he's such a ******* traitor!  

So, I just put that little reaction down to him having some over-the-top-US-patriotism.   But it was a good movie!    

12 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Part of me says thats just pure ego ,Assange didnt think he would lose the rape case in sweden so he didnt have a plan, and part of me thinks that's just the difference between a trained intelligence asset with resources and a hacker/pop culture personality.

Oh yeah, for sure. I completely agree.  I think his ego is massive and he's that free-spirited hacker type (I think we were all like that once upon a time in our lives...when we're young of course  ) that got himself into something that he didn't expect was going to be so big.