Israel & Palestine - Two states?

[Sir Smoke aLot]

Article about most recent demolitions, arguably widest since 1967. LINK

Story is not a secret and is widely reported. Anyone can pick their own source article about the issue.

From the article : ''Israeli bulldozers joined by hundreds of soldiers and police demolished Palestinian homes on the outskirts of East Jerusalem on Monday, in the face of local protests and international criticism.

While there is increasing pressure on resistance in Palestine, constant accusations of new Holocaust waiting to happen and accusations about anti Semitism among people who condemn Zionism -  with all that no one seem to bother with real, actual events which truly undermine prospect for future peace and stability.

Two states solution is becoming harder to achieve with every new day. I would dare to say that it's almost impossible to happen because of changed demographic picture of the land, systematic attacks on civilian life and prosperity of occupied people and only reality i see right now is fascism from Israel, fascism disguised as national security and freedom.

If in the name of security one has to deny security for others - he just doesn't deserve security.

And this most recent attack on Palestinian homes and life was done in the name of ''protecting near border area'' where it is forbidden for Palestinians to build. This simply proves Israeli superiority in every aspect.

As things unfold in last years all i have seen so far, regarding possibility of two states is this :

Israeli part :

1. They got support to take over Jerusalem, minor support among world nations but major support where it matters the most, in the USA - i would dare say major support for breaking of international law from USA, who is the most vocal about necessity of respect towards international law. No, it's not a joke. It's this new reality.

2. They even try to get support for 1981 takeover of Golan Heights. So far it's the same situation as it is with Jerusalem. Even UK is strongly against such violations of international law and their position has not changed since 1980's. 

Based on this i believe that Israel has officially proven that they have expansion in their minds and it won't stop on occupied Palestinian lands. Right now they occupy lands of 3 nations.

Palestinian :

1. they are being accused to desire slaughter of Jews

2. they are anti Semites (the fact that Palestinians are Semites doesn't bother anyone when they promote such wild theories)

3. 'place accusation here'

4. 'another accusation here'

5. and so on...

All that said i am sure of one thing. Israel doesn't want two state solution and is, as ever, working hard to destroy every prospect of such agreement with Palestinians. Domination and exclusivity based on taking away most basic human rights from Palestinian people. It's systematic. Official.

What do we have in favor of argument that ''Palestinians do not want two states but they want only to destroy Israel and kill Jews''?

As i said above, we only have accusations to back that up. Accusation is just that, accusation. Not a fact. You can not put someone in jail and make sentence based on accusation.

Accordingly the largest obstacle for two state solution and for final achievement of peace in the region is government in Israel.

Statement by Malaysian prime minister :

''

“The main thing that we think we should always stress is the causes of terrorism. Today, there is already a consensus almost to blame terrorism on Muslims,” said the Malaysian premier who was in Turkey on an official visit.

“But the fact you said, after the seizure of Palestine, and the disregard of international law by Israel, this has led to so-called acts of terrorism. But in order to get rid of terrorism, we need to know the reason why they terrorize unless you treat the causes of terrorism, you are not going to be able to stop terrorism,” he said.''

Reported by Turkish Anadoly agency.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+and-then]

9 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

What do we have in favor of argument that ''Palestinians do not want two states

Can you point to any negotiation where they ACCEPTED any type of compromise that has been offered?  I'm not aware of one.  Oslo was as close as they came and that broke down.  Is there ANY level of violence by the Palestinians against the Jews of Israel that you would condemn or is it your view that until Israel vacates most of that land, there cannot be any peace and the Israelis deserve what happens due to resistance efforts?

[Sir Smoke aLot]

Just now, and then said:

Oslo was as close as they came and that broke down.

Oslo never gave them statehood and sovereignty. Such thing was only left for future, just like in Kushner's deal.

1 minute ago, and then said:

Can you point to any negotiation where they ACCEPTED any type of compromise that has been offered?

You've said it already, Oslo

Is one enough?

2 minutes ago, and then said:

Is there ANY level of violence by the Palestinians against the Jews of Israel that you would condemn

Please stop implying that i never felt for problems of civilians in Israel. Stop implying that i turn blind eye to attacks on Israelis. 

You have to understand that every action has reaction. Israel can not disrupt (i am being modest) civilian life and expect nothing to fire back. It's only because they have (and always had) military superiority that their victim numbers are low when compared to Palestinians.

13 minutes ago, and then said:

or is it your view that until Israel vacates most of that land, there cannot be any peace and the Israelis deserve what happens due to resistance efforts?

I applaud the resistance! Any man who fights for his house and hard earned possessions is freedom fighter for me. The one who wants to send him away is fascist. 

Regarding situation in occupied lands my view is that Israel has to leave that land! Occupied Palestine, now whole of Israel. Leave West Bank, lift the siege from Gaza and let the whole world enjoy Jerusalem which should always be place of worship for every Abramic religion. I oppose Judaization of Jerusalem. When Israel does that i will say i love you Israel, you finally have started to be what you pretended to be, God's people.

If Israel can not be satisfied with what they got so far then i have no respect for them. Not even slightest! Nor should you.

[RoofGardener]

28 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Oslo never gave them statehood and sovereignty. Such thing was only left for future, just like in Kushner's deal.

You've said it already, Oslo

Is one enough?

Please stop implying that i never felt for problems of civilians in Israel. Stop implying that i turn blind eye to attacks on Israelis. 

You have to understand that every action has reaction. Israel can not disrupt (i am being modest) civilian life and expect nothing to fire back. It's only because they have (and always had) military superiority that their victim numbers are low when compared to Palestinians.

I applaud the resistance! Any man who fights for his house and hard earned possessions is freedom fighter for me. The one who wants to send him away is fascist. 

Regarding situation in occupied lands my view is that Israel has to leave that land! Occupied Palestine, now whole of Israel. Leave West Bank, lift the siege from Gaza and let the whole world enjoy Jerusalem which should always be place of worship for every Abramic religion. I oppose Judaization of Jerusalem. When Israel does that i will say i love you Israel, you finally have started to be what you pretended to be, God's people.

If Israel can not be satisfied with what they got so far then i have no respect for them. Not even slightest! Nor should you.

Yeah.. except that the PLO broke Oslo before Oslo even really started. 

You raise an interesting point about "every action has a reaction", and that we should - for want of a better term - tackle the causes of terrorism, rather than terrorism itself. 

In light of this, tell me SSaL; what - in your opinion - are the causes of 

1. Al Quada terrorism, and
2. ISIS terrorism ? 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

1 hour ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Oslo never gave them statehood and sovereignty. Such thing was only left for future, just like in Kushner's deal.

You've said it already, Oslo

Is one enough?

Please stop implying that i never felt for problems of civilians in Israel. Stop implying that i turn blind eye to attacks on Israelis. 

You have to understand that every action has reaction. Israel can not disrupt (i am being modest) civilian life and expect nothing to fire back. It's only because they have (and always had) military superiority that their victim numbers are low when compared to Palestinians.

I applaud the resistance! Any man who fights for his house and hard earned possessions is freedom fighter for me. The one who wants to send him away is fascist. 

Regarding situation in occupied lands my view is that Israel has to leave that land! Occupied Palestine, now whole of Israel. Leave West Bank, lift the siege from Gaza and let the whole world enjoy Jerusalem which should always be place of worship for every Abramic religion. I oppose Judaization of Jerusalem. When Israel does that i will say i love you Israel, you finally have started to be what you pretended to be, God's people.

If Israel can not be satisfied with what they got so far then i have no respect for them. Not even slightest! Nor should you.

UN Resolution 181 was the plan to create a Jewish and Palestinian state. One accepted and the other rejected. So if the Palestinians don't have a country who's to blame?

Let me answer that for you. The Jews of course.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

50 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Yeah.. except that the PLO broke Oslo before Oslo even really started. 

You raise an interesting point about "every action has a reaction", and that we should - for want of a better term - tackle the causes of terrorism, rather than terrorism itself. 

Oslo was broken before it started. With ''Camp David''.

51 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

In light of this, tell me SSaL; what - in your opinion - are the causes of 

1. Al Quada terrorism, and
2. ISIS terrorism ? 

We might be getting somewhere.

1. This might be deep subject, deeper than what we can know. Bin Laden is central figure. Soviet invasion of Afghanistan is central event. Break up of Soviet union, possibly tied to changes in oil market and demands of military machinery in Afghanistan. So it's by my opinion very broad subject with many causes, even tho we can say that Soviet aggression made a way for it, it made a way for Saudi ideas to flourish and resonate among suffering people far beyond money&power devoted officials in SA and it's allies.

I've gotta mention Rambo 3 here too. Fun note, US officials are singing about how Taliban is great asset in current fight against terrorism. Things change based on what's necessary for politics.

That said, i would avoid talking about al kaida here (small letters intentional when i write names which should not be respected). It's best to discuss in separate topic.

2. Direct result of invasion of Iraq and measures which were imposed by military rule. It was further spread in order to Balkanize the region and it's truly funny how situation, especially with Qurds in Iraq was similar to some of the state adopted strategies in Israel. It's not a secret that Iraq was no.1 adversary of Israel and the strongest one after deal with Egypt was made.

One thing is connecting both al kaida and isis. War destroyed nations and populations. Situation like that and fertile ground for terrorism is made. I do not speak only about Iraqi people here. Situation there after 2003 was similar to that in Syria now, in many aspects. Most important - foreign mercenaries, funding in operatives who induced fear and even started arms struggle between different groups.

Root cause is meddling into other nation affairs. Libya has slave trade now. It's failed nation now. Failed as it was before Gaddafi. 60 years and they are back to where they started without strong figure which could unite the country. This might happen all across the region if political stunts are not prevented.

Thing is, there is one more similarity between the two. It flourished in nations with Muslim majority. What do you think if, God forbid, something like that hit elsewhere in the world? Would struggling Brit resort to more radical ways in his fight for freedom? I believe that he would, especially British people who kept their heads high up in time of air raids in WW2. Somehow i find it similar to Sarajevo which had film festival and election for miss lady when it was under siege. You can kill us, hit us but you can not break our spirits. What if Hitler managed to gain foothold at British coast? Think about that. 

I've tried to make it short.

 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

2 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

2. they are anti Semites (the fact that Palestinians are Semites doesn't bother anyone when they promote such wild theories)

Nor does anyone care the fact that the white skinned Zionists are NOT Semites.

anti-Semite is just the johnny joingoism Israel uses to propagandize gullible Westerners into thinking that these are the jews of ancient Israel. Sorry, the Semite Jews are the black Sephardi Jews of the Levant. Those white skinned jokers are European.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

3 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

UN Resolution 181 was the plan to create a Jewish and Palestinian state. One accepted and the other rejected. So if the Palestinians don't have a country who's to blame?

Let me answer that for you. The Jews of course.

Thanks for the answer. Let me answer to that :

March 5th : Rabbi Silver to UNSC 

''We feel under the obligation to make our position unmistakably clear. As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they have accepted the decision of the United Nations. We regard it as binding, and we are resolved to move forward in the spirit of that decision.''

Further, it was made clear as we can see within : https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/UNISPAL.NSF/0/5072DB486ADF13D0802564AD00394160

Where it's also mentioned by the same representative of Jewish agency, weeks after that statement from above : 

''The statement that the plan proposed by the General Assembly is an integral plan which cannot succeed unless each of its parts can be carried out, is incorrect. This conception was never part of the plan. Indeed, it is contrary to the statement made by the representative of the United States during the second session of the General Assembly.

The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State. Mr. Herschel Johnson, representing the United States delegation, speaking in a sub-committee of the Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question on 28 October 1947, stated, in discussing this very matter in connexion with economic union: “The element of mutuality would not necessarily be a factor, as the document might be signed by one party only.”

Point is that UNGA 181 was kinda central to Declaration to Establishment of the State of Israel. It took almost half year for any Jewish representative to come out, from accepting it as binding, to the position of rejecting it because Arabs rejected it.

So, why it wasn't the problem when it happened? How come such hard shift in political opinion? Do not answer me. Answer to yourself.

Arabs were still striving for promised self determination and democratic elections around which negotiations were held up until mid 1930's. Since Arabs were not backing up from their demands Britain removed from table with Arab representative, move which made way for Zionist political dance to begin.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

You've said it already, Oslo

Did they actually accept it?  They made no changes as far as I can remember.  

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

1 hour ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

You have to understand that every action has reaction.

Exactly, Sir. And now perhaps and then can ponder that the very peaceful Palestinians never resorted to terrorism until their land was stolen and their people driven out of the land of their birth. It's called "reaction".

If that ever happened to Americans, like ourselves, we'd be the first to carry a musket and don a three cornered hat

Edited July 28, 2019 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[Phaeton80]

15 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Nor does anyone care the fact that the white skinned Zionists are NOT Semites.

anti-Semite is just the johnny joingoism Israel uses to propagandize gullible Westerners into thinking that these are the jews of ancient Israel. Sorry, the Semite Jews are the black Sephardi Jews of the Levant. Those white skinned jokers are European.

So we have a non Semite, white Zionist government mass killing colored Palestinian Semites while screaming 'anti Semite' when anyone laments these criminal policies.

In ver sion.

The whole situation - and all crimes / inhumane acts comitted - is centred around this Zionist Apartheid state, run by the white Zionist Israeli, being the true Semites tracing back to the Israelites and Judeans, ancient Israel and Judah.

Isnt that wunderbar.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Phaeton80

[Sir Smoke aLot]

6 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Nor does anyone care the fact that the white skinned Zionists are NOT Semites.

Calm voice of reason can hardly be heard in world filled with lunatics who are jelling their sick songs. Such reality brings many paradoxes and absurdities. This thing about Semites is absurd.

1 minute ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

If that ever happened to Americans, like ourselves, we'd be the first to carry a musket and don a three cornered hat

Every people who has self respect will not do much differently than Palestinians. I hope that no one else will have to do such 'test'. Who knows what would happen, Palestinians might be pacifist when compared to some other in some hypothetical confrontation.

No one likes injustice on their own skin.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

5 minutes ago, and then said:

Did they actually accept it?  They made no changes as far as I can remember.  

PLO was almost done with after invasion of Lebanon. A lot has happened since. When Palestinian intifada began there was no political leadership at all behind those people. It was will of the people. They, by themselves, got out to streets. Protested. Got murdered. Beaten up.

So regardless of them distancing from PLO, it did not in any way improve their position under military rule of Israel.

And PLO was cited by Israel as only stepping stone towards peace and stability. 

So that is lunacy! People, civilians, unarmed, alone... Left by officials. Alone to be confronted with life under military... Even then Israel did not give them any rights. Thousands are in Israeli jails since then. Never seen light of the sun since 1980's.

Now there is no Arafat. Now Israel cites Hamas as only obstacle. Regardless of people starting to protest by themselves. 

Sorry but i would not trust Israeli government even if they come and beg Palestinians to sign good deal which will respect both sides. Knesset only makes excuses, never deals with improving life of nation they occupy. I live for the day when they will be 'sentenced' by world community to be satisfied with what they have.

You can not deny this fact. Even without leadership, with open civil ruled society - Israel will never accept Palestinians. Only if world community forces them to.

[RoofGardener]

32 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Oslo was broken before it started. With ''Camp David''.

We might be getting somewhere.

1. This might be deep subject, deeper than what we can know. Bin Laden is central figure. Soviet invasion of Afghanistan is central event. Break up of Soviet union, possibly tied to changes in oil market and demands of military machinery in Afghanistan. So it's by my opinion very broad subject with many causes, even tho we can say that Soviet aggression made a way for it, it made a way for Saudi ideas to flourish and resonate among suffering people far beyond money&power devoted officials in SA and it's allies.

I've gotta mention Rambo 3 here too. Fun note, US officials are singing about how Taliban is great asset in current fight against terrorism. Things change based on what's necessary for politics.

That said, i would avoid talking about al kaida here (small letters intentional when i write names which should not be respected). It's best to discuss in separate topic.

2. Direct result of invasion of Iraq and measures which were imposed by military rule. It was further spread in order to Balkanize the region and it's truly funny how situation, especially with Qurds in Iraq was similar to some of the state adopted strategies in Israel. It's not a secret that Iraq was no.1 adversary of Israel and the strongest one after deal with Egypt was made.

One thing is connecting both al kaida and isis. War destroyed nations and populations. Situation like that and fertile ground for terrorism is made. I do not speak only about Iraqi people here. Situation there after 2003 was similar to that in Syria now, in many aspects. Most important - foreign mercenaries, funding in operatives who induced fear and even started arms struggle between different groups.

Root cause is meddling into other nation affairs. Libya has slave trade now. It's failed nation now. Failed as it was before Gaddafi. 60 years and they are back to where they started without strong figure which could unite the country. This might happen all across the region if political stunts are not prevented.

Thing is, there is one more similarity between the two. It flourished in nations with Muslim majority. What do you think if, God forbid, something like that hit elsewhere in the world? Would struggling Brit resort to more radical ways in his fight for freedom? I believe that he would, especially British people who kept their heads high up in time of air raids in WW2. Somehow i find it similar to Sarajevo which had film festival and election for miss lady when it was under siege. You can kill us, hit us but you can not break our spirits. What if Hitler managed to gain foothold at British coast? Think about that. 

I've tried to make it short.

 

Thank you for that @Sir Smoke aLot. 

It is my understanding - though I'd struggle to find the citations for this.. it's just something I picked up.. that Obama attacked America because he was angry that the House of Saud had relied on the USA to liberate Kuwait, instead of using Al Quada's mujahadeen to do the job. Furthermore, he was angry at the presence of Kufir (the allied armies) in Saudi Arabia, the Holy Land. 

Now, going back to terrorism, and the roots of terrorism, the USA has pretty much pulled out of Iraq. Is it your contention that all it would take to stop Al Quada terrorist attacks around the world, is for the USA to leave the Middle East ? 

As for ISIS.. I suggest it is even simpler. In order to prevent them from attacking us, all we need to do is convert to become Muslims ? They have already stated that they do not hate us because of the presence of the Kufir military forces, but simply because we ARE kufir. 

[Sir Smoke aLot]

10 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Judeans

I love words. Especially roots of the words. Here, someone messed in translation, big time. Jesus, king of the Jews? 

 

[RoofGardener]

13 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

PLO was almost done with after invasion of Lebanon. A lot has happened since. When Palestinian intifada began there was no political leadership at all behind those people. It was will of the people. They, by themselves, got out to streets. Protested. Got murdered. Beaten up.

So regardless of them distancing from PLO, it did not in any way improve their position under military rule of Israel.

And PLO was cited by Israel as only stepping stone towards peace and stability. 

So that is lunacy! People, civilians, unarmed, alone... Left by officials. Alone to be confronted with life under military... Even then Israel did not give them any rights. Thousands are in Israeli jails since then. Never seen light of the sun since 1980's.

Now there is no Arafat. Now Israel cites Hamas as only obstacle. Regardless of people starting to protest by themselves. 

Sorry but i would not trust Israeli government even if they come and beg Palestinians to sign good deal which will respect both sides. Knesset only makes excuses, never deals with improving life of nation they occupy. I live for the day when they will be 'sentenced' by world community to be satisfied with what they have.

You can not deny this fact. Even without leadership, with open civil ruled society - Israel will never accept Palestinians. Only if world community forces them to.

That's simply not true. The PLO leadership - under the specific instructions of Yasser Arrafat - organised and co-ordinated the Intifada as a distraction from Camp David 2000. 

The Knesset ratified Oslo. The PLO junta never did. They negotiated in bad faith throughout. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by RoofGardener

[Sir Smoke aLot]

2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Now, going back to terrorism, and the roots of terrorism, the USA has pretty much pulled out of Iraq. Is it your contention that all it would take to stop Al Quada terrorist attacks around the world, is for the USA to leave the Middle East ? 

It would make more problems. USA should change it's approach and be content with independent Syria and other countries who are not on Israel or Saudi side. Now it's too late to simply say ''we are done here''. It would be immoral but also it is immoral to continue in the same manner.

Remember Saigon and what happened to many people who could not evacuate? Something along those lines is my highest concern.

4 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

As for ISIS.. I suggest it is even simpler. In order to prevent them from attacking us, all we need to do is convert to become Muslims ? They have already stated that they do not hate us because of the presence of the Kufir military forces, but simply because we ARE kufir. 

isis is sort of Hollywood construct just like white helmets are. al kaida might be labeled as totally clean from non believers (oh how i hate the term) and as such a lot can be said about them. 

isis was mostly formed by foreign fighters. That's fact. Equipped by US arms, uniforms, Israeli arms, European arms. And flooded with all sorts of operatives.

Imagine someone coming in your city block with 100 man with guns. No government and police to protect you. They say take guns and come with us or die.

Gun gives the power. Again, i have to mention media favorite, Jihadi John (man so funny like old movies stereotype).

[Sir Smoke aLot]

8 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

That's simply not true. The PLO leadership - under the specific instructions of Yasser Arrafat - organised and co-ordinated the Intifada as a distraction from Camp David 2000. 

That's 2nd intifada.

[Phaeton80]

7 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Thank you for that @Sir Smoke aLot. 

It is my understanding - though I'd struggle to find the citations for this.. it's just something I picked up.. that Obama attacked America because he was angry that the House of Saud had relied on the USA to liberate Kuwait, instead of using Al Quada's mujahadeen to do the job. Furthermore, he was angry at the presence of Kufir (the allied armies) in Saudi Arabia, the Holy Land. 

Now, going back to terrorism, and the roots of terrorism, the USA has pretty much pulled out of Iraq. Is it your contention that all it would take to stop Al Quada terrorist attacks around the world, is for the USA to leave the Middle East ? 

As for ISIS.. I suggest it is even simpler. In order to prevent them from attacking us, all we need to do is convert to become Muslims ? They have already stated that they do not hate us because of the presence of the Kufir military forces, but simply because we ARE kufir. 

I know dumb questions dont exist, but this is right up there.

You are being extremely disingenuous, in both instances, and you know it. See thats what I passionately dislike about you, you are not here to have an honest debate. You are here ONLY to defend your position, by any means possible. Removing a cause does not equate removing the problem. Its like supposing you can cure a rabid lungcancer by simply quitting smoking.

[RoofGardener]

6 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

That's 2nd intifada.

Ah... umm... yes, sorry, you are correct. 

[RoofGardener]

4 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

I know dumb questions dont exist, but this is right up there.

You are being extremely disingenuous, in both instances, and you know it. See thats what I passionately dislike about you, you are not here to have an honest debate. You are here ONLY to defend your position, by any means possible. Removing a cause does not equate removing the problem. Its like supposing you can cure a rabid lungcancer by simply quitting smoking.

No Phaeton80.. what I do is challenge assumptions. And if you took the time to read back to the beginning of this phase of this discussion, you will note that it was proposed that eliminating the CAUSE of terrorism would eliminate terrorism. Please try and keep up  

My point is that this is not true, or rather.. the causes of SOME terrorist groups cannot be eliminated without destroying our society, and surrendering the the UMMA. 

[Sir Smoke aLot]

3 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Its like supposing you can cure a rabid lungcancer by simply quitting smoking.

So true. Fight against terror can be described as such.

Causes have to be sorted out and fought accordingly. Not end product which is in most cases :

1. indoctrinated young man with ego larger than Earth. Usually those under 25 years old.

2. man who lost his family and wants revenge - most desirable group of people to be abused and used in achieving terrorist goals.

3. actors, affiliated governments and NGO's etc

Those are not causes of terrorism. 

By most simple definition terror is : the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

If the world is not fit to start from there then nothing will be achieved. Like that old saying, ''follow the money''. Follow who profits and how. Then terror will stop. Actually Syrian president has built great amnesty program in order to fight terrorism. Based on situation in Syria, who survived against all odds (well Russia did help in 2015 and it also was turning point).

5 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Ah... umm... yes, sorry, you are correct. 

It's fine. It's easy to make a mistake in subjects as broad as this one is.

[+and-then]

On 7/28/2019 at 8:23 AM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

he just doesn't deserve security.

Then he will MAKE his own security.  

[RoofGardener]

On 7/28/2019 at 1:23 PM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Article about most recent demolitions, arguably widest since 1967. LINK

Story is not a secret and is widely reported. Anyone can pick their own source article about the issue.

From the article : ''Israeli bulldozers joined by hundreds of soldiers and police demolished Palestinian homes on the outskirts of East Jerusalem on Monday, in the face of local protests and international criticism.

While there is increasing pressure on resistance in Palestine, constant accusations of new Holocaust waiting to happen and accusations about anti Semitism among people who condemn Zionism -  with all that no one seem to bother with real, actual events which truly undermine prospect for future peace and stability.

Two states solution is becoming harder to achieve with every new day. I would dare to say that it's almost impossible to happen because of changed demographic picture of the land, systematic attacks on civilian life and prosperity of occupied people and only reality i see right now is fascism from Israel, fascism disguised as national security and freedom.

If in the name of security one has to deny security for others - he just doesn't deserve security.

And this most recent attack on Palestinian homes and life was done in the name of ''protecting near border area'' where it is forbidden for Palestinians to build. This simply proves Israeli superiority in every aspect.

......

The houses in question where - according to Israel - recently built without permissions and in the face of a construction ban. The residents had been advised of this, and the issue had gone before the courts, prior to moving to the demolition stage. 

The Palestinian Authority had sold these people "building permission", knowing that Israel had already refused such permission, and that the buildings would likely be demolished. So who is challenging the PA ? The international media seems curiously quiet about that aspect. If one was cynical, one might almost imagine that the PA deliberately encouraged people to build these structures, in the full knowledge that Israel might demolish them, so that they could get some good media coverage of the "evil Israelis demolishing our houses". 

It is also worth noting that whilst SOME of the buildings where occupied, many more where half-constructed, and unoccupied. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by RoofGardener