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Mass shooting at California Garlic Fest

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Gunn
1 hour ago, Setton said:

So that's 2 across the entire rest of the planet. 

You're on 253 this year alone. 253.

You'll need to explain to me what that has got to do with lunatics finding different ways to commit historical mass murder and can kill just as many without a gun? Looks like you're still playing the numbers game? Again, that wasn't my point.

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Setton
12 minutes ago, Gunn said:

You'll need to explain to me what that has got to do with lunatics finding different ways to commit historical mass murder and can kill just as many without a gun?

They can kill just as many if they use those methods. But those methods are harder to use. So fewer attacks, leading to fewer deaths. 

You used 9/11 as an example. After attackers used planes to kill people, did you just shrug and say 'ah, well if we stopped them using planes, they'd just use something else'? Or did you improve security so they couldn't use planes again?

So why do you let so many attacks with guns happen and do nothing about it? 

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Looks like you're still playing the numbers game?

Yes, it's a numbers game. Fewer dead people is good. Or do you disagree with that? 

Fewer guns leads to fewer attacks leads to fewer dead people (see virtually every other developed country). 

Therefore fewer guns is good. 

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Again, that wasn't my point.

What is your point then? 

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Gunn
1 hour ago, Setton said:

They can kill just as many if they use those methods. But those methods are harder to use. So fewer attacks, leading to fewer deaths.

No there not. We got all kinds of household chemicals over here to make bombs alone. Hell, we got ordinary pressure cookers they do that with, man. And what about using vehicles to plow people down? That's starting to gain traction over here. And don't bother mentioning bollards because we don't have that kind of money to plant those things along every square inch of rural highway in this big ass country.  And how about (*cringes* and this one makes me sick to even think about, far worse then getting shot IMO) being burned alive in a building doused by gasoline by some angry sicko? I never thought anybody could pull that one off, but apparently it's happened before.  They're won't be fewer, there will be more of the other kind of methods.

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You used 9/11 as an example. After attackers used planes to kill people, did you just shrug and say 'ah, well if we stopped them using planes, they'd just use something else'? Or did you improve security so they couldn't use planes again?

Naw the government improve overall national security because they didn't want jumbo jets flying into their military installations or military bases and government buildings like the White House. That was really the terrorists main targets. So don't let them fool you as to the main reason why they took care of that problem. The public just gained a side benefit of security from their action. Our government doesn't really care about the rest of us, because the government's security is more important than ours. Anyway, you are using an apple to orange comparison with this. It's very difficult to hide a jumbo jet compared to a gun.

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So why do you let so many attacks with guns happen and do nothing about it?

Well first of all - because it's not a inanimate gun problem, Setton. It's the person behind the trigger with a mental illness problem. Blaming guns is like blaming a vehicle for running over someone, instead of the driver behind wheel.  It doesn't make any logical sense. Why not take care of the person who is causing the problem in the first place? The root of the problem? So until we take care of the mental health crisis we have in this country, none of it's going to go away. But we rather work on that first, but unfortunately, it's going slowly. Because there is a division among us about the kind of health care system we actually need.

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Yes, it's a numbers game. Fewer dead people is good. Or do you disagree with that? 

As a matter of fact I do! Because it's like I told you before, it's a half-ass solution. And what about the next poor person who still gets shot dead? What if it still ends up being a kid? Then what? Oh too bad, so sad, at least it wasn't me this time? And I'll bet you or the other guys across the pond next piece of advice will then be to take all the guns away, when stricter gun control still only half-ass works. And don't think we don't know there are a lot of people in the world (including some, socialist/communist, in our own country) who would love to see the U.S. public completely disarmed for nefarious political agendas. Because it's really all about public control and not for public safety. That's the oldest excuse in the book.

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Fewer guns leads to fewer attacks leads to fewer dead people (see virtually every other developed country). 

Therefore fewer guns is good. 

 

Still gonna be a half-ass solution in our country, Setton. Not gonna stop the maniacs. Where there is a will, they'll find a way. Mark my words.

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What is your point then? 

But you already know what my point is. I already explain that to you in another post and again in this post.

Edited by Gunn

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Golden Duck
10 hours ago, Gunn said:

While it may work in inner cities of small island continents,  you'll have a hard time convincing our government to put bollards on millions of square miles in rural areas where people sometimes gather for events. The cost would be astronomical. And all these lunatics would have to do is rent a box truck and find soft targets like fairgrounds or festivals outside the main cities in rural areas where there is very little protection from vehicles. So just because it may work in the country where you live, it doesn't mean it could work everywhere in the U.S.

Bollards don't stop bombs, knives/swords, and fires either. They'll find other ways, Timothy McVeigh demonstrated proof of that.

Look at the article list of other effective methods mass killers used that I posted for @Setton That is a lot of lives lost in each horrific event. I'd say those methods those lunatics used were quite effective or equivalent to mass shootings. Those historical examples are not a lie unless you want believe they are a lie.

City streets are converted into racing circuits fairly regularly here; and, we also have outdoor music festivals.  Protecting punters doesn't require permanent installations.  The cost is is covered by the event organiser.

https://www.amlrisk.com.au/hostile-vehicle-mitigation-barriers.html

The chemical precursors for an IED are highly regulated. 

Edited by Golden Duck

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Gunn
6 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

City streets are converted into racing circuits fairly regularly here; and, we also have outdoor music festivals.  Protecting punters doesn't require permanent installations.  The cost is is covered by the event organiser.

https://www.amlrisk.com.au/hostile-vehicle-mitigation-barriers.html

Nice. I like those. Mobile too! But I don't think you understand. Politics is not exactly the same here as it probably is in your country. First we'd have to get congress to pass a law to make event organizers to put up those barriers in rural areas through lobbying, then the president has to approve/sign it into law. Because not all event organizers are going to want to do it just out of the graciousness of their good hearts, especially if it costs money, remember, we're a capitalist society. Some might, but not all. And If it cost organizers too much money, some will probably fight it in congress through lobbying as well.  And all that would probably take forever or never, depending on how many times those type of incidents occur. Yet you see how often gun laws get passed here on the federal level. S-L-O-W as molasses. But then, somebody in office could come along and abolish that law for political reasons.

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The chemical precursors for an IED are highly regulated. 

Yeah, but not for ammonium nitrate, other ordinary household chemicals and store bought pressure cookers. Man there all kinds of things we have here that somebody could learn off the net to make bombs with, fire bombs, Molotov cocktails, you name it. Other then the highly regulated stuff.

 

Edited by Gunn

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Golden Duck
22 minutes ago, Gunn said:

Nice. I like those. Mobile too! But I don't think you understand. Politics is not exactly the same here as it probably is in your country. First we'd have to get congress to pass a law to make event organizers to put up those barriers in rural areas through lobbying, then the president has to approve/sign it into law. Because not all event organizers are going to want to do it just out of the graciousness of their good hearts, especially if it costs money, remember, we're a capitalist society. Some might, but not all. And If it cost organizers too much money, some will probably fight it in congress through lobbying as well.  And all that would probably take forever or never, depending on how many times those type of incidents occur. Yet you see how often gun laws get passed here on the federal level. S-L-O-W as molasses. But then, somebody in office could come along and abolish that law for political reasons.

Yeah, but not for ammonium nitrate, other ordinary household chemicals and store bought pressure cookers. Man there all kinds of things we have here that somebody could learn off the net to make bombs with, fire bombs, Molotov cocktails, you name it. Other then the highly regulated stuff.

 

We have economics here too. Event organizers want to reduce their public liability risk and so do their insurers.

I hear a lot more reports of police finding homemade bombs than I hear of them killing people.  That's just my perception. I could be suffering some bias.

Edited by Golden Duck
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Setton
7 hours ago, Gunn said:

And don't think we don't know there are a lot of people in the world (including some, socialist/communist, in our own country) who would love to see the U.S. public completely disarmed for nefarious political agendas. Because it's really all about public control and not for public safety. That's the oldest excuse in the book

And there it is. What it always comes back to: your paranoia justifies the death of someone else's child. 

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Gunn
8 minutes ago, Setton said:

And there it is. What it always comes back to: your paranoia justifies the death of someone else's child. 

Don't worry, well eventually change all that. But not by taking guns away from law abiding citizens.

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Setton
5 hours ago, Gunn said:

Don't worry, well eventually change all that. But not by taking guns away from law abiding citizens.

How then? Go on, what's your plan? We're all ears. 

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skliss

Saw an update:

Records: Festival gunman had passport, survival guide in car

LOS ANGELES (AP) The gunman in the deadly California food festival shooting had a passport, clown mask, wilderness survival guide and bottle rockets in his car at the time of the attack, court documents released Thursday show.

...

The search warrant records also show Legan had a pamphlet from the garlic festival in his car.

Gilroy police referred questions to the FBI, which declined to comment.

Authorities say his motive isn't known but he had been interested in conflicting violent ideologies.

The FBI says it's treating the shooting as an act of domestic terrorism because Legan had compiled a "target list" that included religious groups, federal buildings and both major political parties.

Among the other items found in his car were digital devices, California and Nevada license plates, a shotgun, ammunition, a first aid kit and a camouflage pack with a fire shelter tent.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/records-festival-gunman-had-passport-205740028.html

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