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and then

Mass shooting at California Garlic Fest

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and then
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

On the one hand it does sound like something she would say in a hyperbolic moment....on the other theres an entire propaganda machine working against her, care to provide a link?

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/07/02/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-illegal-aliens-deserve-right-of-passage-to-freely-enter-u-s/

Ocasio said:

I think that immigration should be safe. I think that we should grant people a safe and documented right of passage. 

We can quibble over wording but she is saying the same thing here.  Giving them a "right of passage" is the same as making the borders completely without effect.

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RavenHawk
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

On the one hand it does sound like something she would say in a hyperbolic moment....on the other theres an entire propaganda machine working against her, care to provide a link?

If you spent any time listening to the candidates, you wouldn't need links.  If you watched the last debates, most if not all want to do away with detaining them.  They want to do away with ICE.  This is open borders.  They want to tear down existing walls.  This is definitely open borders.  They all want to give illegals free medical care.  That is open borders.  The Progressive platform is nothing but open borders.

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Imaginarynumber1
2 hours ago, and then said:

Cortez has said it isn't illegal for anyone to come in who wants to.  How is that not the same as open borders?

It's not illegal. There is a process and she full well knows that. Also, she is not "the democrats". She is one Democrat and hardly the policy maker for the party.

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RavenHawk
3 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I actually thought about my comment while walking my dog and realised - gun control or not - that these events happen at all signify something deeply wrong with a society.

Yes, something is deeply wrong with society.  Do you think taking guns away is going to change that?  What DeBlasio has done in NYC, making it open season to disrespect the police will create wide-spread anarchy.  He will be able to achieve what Obama could only dream of.

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RoofGardener

What's with all this talk about open borders ? Are the shooters supposed to be illegal immigrants or something ? 

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ExpandMyMind
32 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Do you think taking guns away is going to change that?

It would change how many people are killed by changing how easily people can do so, yes.

It wouldn't solve the underlying problem though.

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Farmer77
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

They want to do away with ICE.  This is open borders.  

So um , do you think its ICE protecting the borders? Thats CBP's job, its actually right in the title.

If you spent any time examining ideas from a neutral perspective you would understand that the idea of getting rid of ICE goes way beyond just the immigration issue , its a bureaucratic issue and its a large government issue.

19 top ICE investigators ask DHS officials to split up the agency

 

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Farmer77
50 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

What's with all this talk about open borders ? Are the shooters supposed to be illegal immigrants or something ? 

No the shooter is a white guy, hence all the quick attempts to deflet the conversation to Chicago early in the thread

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RavenHawk
59 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

What's with all this talk about open borders ? Are the shooters supposed to be illegal immigrants or something ? 

The point is that if you confiscated all the guns in this country, an open border would be the conduit to bring in more.

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and then
1 hour ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

It's not illegal. There is a process and she full well knows that. Also, she is not "the democrats". She is one Democrat and hardly the policy maker for the party.

When non-citizens cross our border without paperwork, when thousands just walk in as they are now, yeah, that's ILLEGAL and she wants to change that to a system where we literally welcome all comers.  Are you actually saying she represents a minority view within the party?  The Democrats are fighting Trump at every step to stop him from slowing this flow.  The Dems OWN this issue.

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Imaginarynumber1
3 minutes ago, and then said:

When non-citizens cross our border without paperwork, when thousands just walk in as they are now, yeah, that's ILLEGAL and she wants to change that to a system where we literally welcome all comers.  Are you actually saying she represents a minority view within the party?  The Democrats are fighting Trump at every step to stop him from slowing this flow.  The Dems OWN this issue.

Find a quote or get it any democrat saying they are for open borders. All I'm saying 

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RoofGardener

What has all this talk of borders got to do with the shooting at the Garlic Festival ? :( 

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Doc Socks Junior

6 years old.  Keep squabbling about open borders, guys.  Keep saying the cure is worse than the disease.  Keep blaming the object.  Keep blaming the person.

Kids just keep dying.

b3a44fcb-6cf0-4f0d-abec-43f3bb9c2887.jpg

Edited by Doc Socks Junior
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Imaginarynumber1
20 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

6 years old.  Keep squabbling about open borders, guys.  Keep saying the cure is worse than the disease.  Keep blaming the object.  Keep blaming the person.

Kids just keep dying.

b3a44fcb-6cf0-4f0d-abec-43f3bb9c2887.jpg

Sandy Hook already showed that we, as a nation, don't care if kids die as long as we can still have our guns. 

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Desertrat56
5 hours ago, susieice said:

The small towns around it are reporting they have more hotel reservations than they can handle and they are really concerned about all these people showing up. Literally thousands. Local law enforcement is expressing concern too. They are very small desert communities of ranchers and miners where it's 100 miles to the next gas station. You can't tell a bunch of crazies that it's just a joke. After September, I don't think I'd want to be the guy who went on Facebook and posted that joke.

Maybe what needs to happen is for the FBI to arrest the guy who started the joke for inciting a potential riot, then knock on everyone's door who posted that they will be there and tell them if they show up they will be arrested.  It seems reasonable to me, even though it was an obvious joke, read the original post, it is obvious to any rational person, that the people who are stupid enough to join in should be punished or at least threatened with punishment if they show up.  Maybe the punishment should be banning from Facebook and Instagram.

Back on topic, like @and then said it is impossible to completely ban guns, as you all in the UK & Australia know, and doing that is worse as a cure than the actual "disease".  No matter what the laws actually are there will be people who break them, and if the laws are not enforced it is a waste to make them stricter.

Edited by Desertrat56
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spartan max2
4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

On the one hand it does sound like something she would say in a hyperbolic moment....on the other theres an entire propaganda machine working against her, care to provide a link?

By making "sanctuary" cities where people can not be deported how is that not the same as open borders.

AOC wants to abolish ICE. If you can't deport and you can't secure your border then that's sounds like an open border to me lol.

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, and then said:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/07/02/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-illegal-aliens-deserve-right-of-passage-to-freely-enter-u-s/

Ocasio said:

I think that immigration should be safe. I think that we should grant people a safe and documented right of passage. 

We can quibble over wording but she is saying the same thing here.  Giving them a "right of passage" is the same as making the borders completely without effect.

Thank you for the citation.

Based on the article provided however I didnt interpret it asking for  open borders at all.

Quote

think that immigration should be safe. I think that we should grant people a safe and documented right of passage. Republicans try all these scare tactics. And they go ‘Oh, open borders.’ Because they’re trying to incite fear. But what we really need to do is demilitarize a lot of what’s going on in terms of the detention of people, which has been happening for a very long time by the way. [Emphasis added]

So I think that when we talk about replacing it with a system, we talk about having a system that is safe, that documents people effectively, that is also not rooted in the discrimination that our immigration system was initially built on. [Emphasis added]

The first immigration law in the United States was the Chinese Exclusion Act. The first law about immigration in the United States was about how do we exclude a specific type of people. And our immigration system has really kind of evolved from that initial root and I don’t think it necessarily has to be that way. [Emphasis added]

 

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

By making "sanctuary" cities where people can not be deported how is that not the same as open borders.

AOC wants to abolish ICE. If you can't deport and you can't secure your border then that's sounds like an open border to me lol.

CBP protects the borders and CBP also can deport and did so without ICE until 2003

ICE is an extra layer of bureaucracy created in the aftermath of 9/11.

 

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Farmer77
20 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

By making "sanctuary" cities where people can not be deported how is that not the same as open borders.

Thats a major misconception. People absolutely can be deported in sanctuary cities. Local governments just wont do the work, or absorb the cost, for the federal government in those cities.

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RavenHawk
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

So um , do you think its ICE protecting the borders? Thats CBP's job, its actually right in the title.

They work together to defend this nation.  As you pointed out, CBP protects the borders.  But once illegals have penetrated the border, it is up to ICE to corral and collect them for deportation.

 

If you spent any time examining ideas from a neutral perspective

Oh, just like you?

 

you would understand that the idea of getting rid of ICE goes way beyond just the immigration issue , its a bureaucratic issue and its a large government issue.

Yes, it is a bureaucratic issue in that if ICE is gone, then the Prog agenda is one step closer to realization.

 

HSI wants to be separated from ICE, not abolish it.  Very dishonest in the way this is being reported.  I can’t say I completely disagree with the separation, but this would mean that HSI would be competing with ICE for funding and ICE will probably still get the lion’s share.  If not, then what’s the point of HSI?  If there is no ICE, then HSI can be performed by local authorities, especially in sanctuary cities.    Once ICE goes, how long do you think it'll be before Progs find a way to get rid of HSI?

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susieice

ABC News is reporting the shooter was a 19 yr old male named Santino Legan. It doesn't sound like the manhunt produced a second suspect.

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/garlic-festival-mass-shooting-gilroy-california-victims-suspect-santino-william-legan-live-updates/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/active-shooter-incident-garlic-festival-california/story?id=64624542

Edited by susieice
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Farmer77
1 minute ago, RavenHawk said:

Once ICE goes, how long do you think it'll be before Progs find a way to get rid of HSI?

LOL I love the 21st century. Here the "liberal" is arguing with the "conservative" in favor of smaller, less reaching government :lol:

I would not only be OK with getting rid of HSI Id be OK with doing away with DHS altogether and It has nothing to do with "progs" or immigration

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Dark_Grey
2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

No the shooter is a white guy, hence all the quick attempts to deflet the conversation to Chicago early in the thread

Bringing up Chicago is always relevant as no Democrat seems to want to tackle the problem. It's continually swept under the rug (see above,) while the murder rate continues to climb. To address Chicago's gun and gang violence is to put failed Democrat policies and rhetoric in the spotlight so it's better to just skirt around that clustf----. Nobody mentioned anything about race 

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Dark_Grey

Why are we talking about immigration on page 2? Was this a false flag or not? Are we going to find out in 6 months this guy had an uncle in the CIA or something? What else do we know about him?

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, Dark_Grey said:

To address Chicago's gun and gang violence is to put failed Democrat policies and rhetoric in the spotlight so it's better to just skirt around that clustf----

Well to simply end that looping cluster**** thought process the argument is that its all the right wing policies stacking the states around Ill with guns that is causing guns to flow into the city.

Basically youre p***ing up a rope with that rhetoric. No matter how logical you think it is the other side sees it completely opposite.

3 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Nobody mentioned anything about race 

Rarely do they. Of course people with above room temp IQ's can recognize whats actually happening, particularly in todays environment.

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