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Pettytalk

Why is there existence, rather than nothing?

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Pettytalk

Forget science. Forget God. This is the ultimate question: What if Everything had Forever been Nothing? Not just emptiness, not just blankness, but not even the existence of emptiness, not even the meaning of blankness, and no Forever. If you don't get dizzy, you really don't get it.....  Imagine that not a single thing ever existed. If you can image that, now ask yourself: why is there anything at all?

The above is a synopsis for the PBS series, Closer To Truth, and the addressing of what the program terms as the "ultimate question." And for discussion purposes, I would have to agree that in sum it is the ultimate question, since the program includes God (a being that is assumed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent) as part of existence.

I'll link the main material from Closer To Truth, just so as to get an idea as what some of the better known academics think about this ultimate question. https://www.closertotruth.com/series/why-there-something-rather-nothing

The object here is to get a feel, through discussion, on how UM members personally feel on the ultimate question, and what their own opinions are on a possible reason for there being something, rather than nothing at all.  

My own opinion has been shaped by persons of the past whom I have come to admirer more and more as I get older, and therefore it's rather biased on this question. And this opinion of mine is that only God knows absolutes. And I suppose God to be this omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being. What I have to say on this ultimate question using a much less biased opinion, which is one that I arrived at more than 5 decades ago, at which stage I had not come to know these persons I admire now, nor knew of their work, is that if there is existence, there can never have been non-existence.

It is one of the rare things of physical nature that has no opposite. Existence cannot have an opposite, which would be termed as non-existence. Non-existence exists, not to contradict my own opinion, only in speech so as to contrast the term, existence, which is more than just a defining term, since it also has real existence, unlike non-existence which does not exist at all, apart as a definition term only.  I hesitate to repeat, but it's needed for me, as they say repetition can be a good thing, if it helps one understand better.

Well then, my dear UM regulars, and non-regulars, please do put forth your opinion on this ultimate question, if it tickles your curiosity, or if you want to tickle the others' curiosity with your own revelation on the question of existence. 

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RabidMongoose
6 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Forget science. Forget God. This is the ultimate question: What if Everything had Forever been Nothing? Not just emptiness, not just blankness, but not even the existence of emptiness, not even the meaning of blankness, and no Forever. If you don't get dizzy, you really don't get it.....  Imagine that not a single thing ever existed. If you can image that, now ask yourself: why is there anything at all?

The above is a synopsis for the PBS series, Closer To Truth, and the addressing of what the program terms as the "ultimate question." And for discussion purposes, I would have to agree that in sum it is the ultimate question, since the program includes God (a being that is assumed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent) as part of existence.

I'll link the main material from Closer To Truth, just so as to get an idea as what some of the better known academics think about this ultimate question. https://www.closertotruth.com/series/why-there-something-rather-nothing

The object here is to get a feel, through discussion, on how UM members personally feel on the ultimate question, and what their own opinions are on a possible reason for there being something, rather than nothing at all.  

My own opinion has been shaped by persons of the past whom I have come to admirer more and more as I get older, and therefore it's rather biased on this question. And this opinion of mine is that only God knows absolutes. And I suppose God to be this omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being. What I have to say on this ultimate question using a much less biased opinion, which is one that I arrived at more than 5 decades ago, at which stage I had not come to know these persons I admire now, nor knew of their work, is that if there is existence, there can never have been non-existence.

It is one of the rare things of physical nature that has no opposite. Existence cannot have an opposite, which would be termed as non-existence. Non-existence exists, not to contradict my own opinion, only in speech so as to contrast the term, existence, which is more than just a defining term, since it also has real existence, unlike non-existence which does not exist at all, apart as a definition term only.  I hesitate to repeat, but it's needed for me, as they say repetition can be a good thing, if it helps one understand better.

Well then, my dear UM regulars, and non-regulars, please do put forth your opinion on this ultimate question, if it tickles your curiosity, or if you want to tickle the others' curiosity with your own revelation on the question of existence. 

As nothingness must by its very definition be the lack of everything, it has never and can never exist.

At the minimum one thing must always of existed and that is the starting place of Monism. From one thing exist you can also figure out other things too. For example, its impossible for something to exist without having a location, a point in time, and being made out of something. So you can get space, time, and matter, too and from there can build up our reality.

I has all come from God (the one thing).

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spud the mackem

What a load of nonsensical rubbish .

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papageorge1
22 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

 

Well then, my dear UM regulars, and non-regulars, please do put forth your opinion on this ultimate question

This is the ultimate question that neither so-called Theists and Atheists can get behind.

My personal position is that this mysterious thing called Consciousness/God/Brahman comes first and the universe id a creative play of this fundamental Consciousness/God/Brahman. But as to how/why this Consciousness/God/Brahman exists, I can not get my mind behind.

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sci-nerd

There can't have been nothing before everything, because there was potential.
Without that potential, there would still be nothing.

So the simple answer is: There was never nothing.

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Liquid Gardens
5 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

So the simple answer is: There was never nothing.

But could we have nothing in 'the future' even though there is something now?

'Why' questions are a little fraught in my view especially with questions like this.  It can mean at least two different things: 'what was the cause' or 'what was the purpose/motivation'.  I don't know the cause of our 'something' or if it was even caused.  I don't think the 'what was the purpose' why-question is answerable either, to me it seems to make a mistaken assumption, namely that for some reason we should expect nothing to exist and thus the 'something' that does exist requires an explanation.

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Pettytalk
30 minutes ago, spud the mackem said:

What a load of nonsensical rubbish .

Why do you feel that the question is nonsensical rubbish?

Here is one person that thought it was not rubbish, and actually wrote a book based on that question.

 

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South Alabam
Posted (edited)

Nothing from one dimension might be matter in another dimension and vice versa. Sort of like the way Dark matter is thought to exist. Maybe our matter came from elsewhere.

Edited by South Alabam
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sci-nerd
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

But could we have nothing in 'the future' even though there is something now?

Yes. The universe is mathematical, and particles behave like they were sent from a GPU.
If there is such a GPU, shutting it down would make everything vanish (except potential).

40 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Nothing from one dimension might be matter in another dimension and vice versa. Sort of like the way Dark matter is thought to exist. Maybe our matter came from elsewhere.

That other dimension could be another universe, where our universe is just one object. A computer.

Edited by sci-nerd

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South Alabam
1 hour ago, sci-nerd said:

Yes. The universe is mathematical, and particles behave like they were sent from a GPU.
If there is such a GPU, shutting it down would make everything vanish (except potential).

That other dimension could be another universe, where our universe is just one object. A computer.

It still doesn't explain where that computer came from :D

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lightly

There never was nothing...and there still isn't..   .  .?     Seriously.

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sci-nerd
53 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

It still doesn't explain where that computer came from :D

We are limited to understanding our own universe. Even if that means it is a tiny part of another. We can't investigate what we can't measure.

But we can make qualified guesses. Our computers were initially invented by a mathematician who wanted to break a code. Alan Turing.
A computer is nothing more than an advanced calculator. So it is very likely, that their computers was made by mathematicians who needed to solve a problem.

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L.A.T.1961

Why is nothing an option ? It is thought the initial starting point is nothing and existence has to start from that state but what if this is wrong. Perhaps the default state is existence.

If this is the case there would be no need to create something from nothing, to reach the position seen today. There never was a nothing that could then have persisted indefinitely. 

"nature abhors a vacuum" 

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XenoFish

No-thing became some-thing. The question of our existence is trivial. We exist. There doesn't have to be a reason, purpose or point to it at all. It just is.

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sci-nerd
10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

No-thing became some-thing. The question of our existence is trivial. We exist. There doesn't have to be a reason, purpose or point to it at all. It just is.

I would agree with that, if it wasn't for quantum mechanics. QM takes "matter matters" and turns it into "you matter"!

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XenoFish
24 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

I would agree with that, if it wasn't for quantum mechanics. QM takes "matter matters" and turns it into "you matter"!

So what exactly don't you agree. Is it because I didn't use $10.00 words? To be honest these discussion are pointless on an epic scale.

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spartan max2

It one of the great mind boggling questions.

Just like is the universe endless or does it end? Both are impossible to imagine. Is there an endless amount of nonethingness that an object could float in? Lol

I doubt it's a concept humans can really comprehend 

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spartan max2
1 hour ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Why is nothing an option ? It is thought the initial starting point is nothing and existence has to start from that state but what if this is wrong. Perhaps the default state is existence.

If this is the case there would be no need to create something from nothing, to reach the position seen today. There never was a nothing that could then have persisted indefinitely. 

"nature abhors a vacuum" 

I think the idea of something eternally existing and never having a starting point is equally as mind boggling lol

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sci-nerd
10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

So what exactly don't you agree. Is it because I didn't use $10.00 words? To be honest these discussion are pointless on an epic scale.

I disagree with the trivial pointless part, because evidence shows that nature adapts to us. We matter. We just don't know why. Yet.

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spartan max2
Just now, sci-nerd said:

I disagree with the trivial pointless part, because evidence shows that nature adapts to us. We matter. We just don't know why. Yet.

Can you elaborate on that? You lost me. 

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XenoFish
Just now, sci-nerd said:

I disagree with the trivial pointless part, because evidence shows that nature adapts to us. We matter. We just don't know why. Yet.

We are just one species that will eventually go extinct. So no, we do not matter. And no nature doesn't adapt to us, we adapt nature to our needs. We are parasitic and invasive species on this blue marble. 

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spartan max2
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

We are just one species that will eventually go extinct. So no, we do not matter. And no nature doesn't adapt to us, we adapt nature to our needs. We are parasitic and invasive species on this blue marble. 

By your definition, what decides if "something matters" what is your criteria.

In what theorectical ways would the universe have to be different for humans "to matter"?

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sci-nerd
Just now, spartan max2 said:

Can you elaborate on that? You lost me. 

Quantum experiments show - without a doubt - that the observer - not the equipment - makes - not only the wave collapse into a particle - but also turns a particles superposition into a spin.
This was first confirmed with the delayed choice experiment. Then re-confirmed with the delayed choice eraser experiment, and finally the Wigner's Friend experiment confirmed the superposition vs spin.

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

By your definition, what decides if "something matters" what is your criteria.

In what theorectical ways would the universe have to be different for humans "to matter"?

One day we will go extinct and the earth will be swallowed by our sun. Every single thing that humanity had ever done will be gone. So nothing we will do shall matter. With are without us the universe goes on and on till it eventually burns out. From no-thing to no-thing once again. Nothing matters.

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XenoFish
4 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Quantum experiments show - without a doubt - that the observer - not the equipment - makes - not only the wave collapse into a particle - but also turns a particles superposition into a spin.
This was first confirmed with the delayed choice experiment. Then re-confirmed with the delayed choice eraser experiment, and finally the Wigner's Friend experiment confirmed the superposition vs spin.

That's cute and all but tell me this. How does the observer exist? If you have to observe something to for it to exist. Then what in the hell is self-awareness. Because without something objective to observe things, nothing would exist. Yet meteors and asteroids that near miss our planet obvious exist without us observing them till it's a close call or too late. Quantum woo. 

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