Why is there existence, rather than nothing?

[Coil]

50 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Who or what's consciousness and where did it come from? 

Consciousness is being, it exists and does not come from anywhere, does not begin and does not leave. It simply always exists.
It’s hard for us to understand because we see the emergence of every thing and we know the beginning of the universe so that it’s just a Self-existing, Causeless Consciousness and do not try to squeeze it into the framework of science and physics here our narrow laws do not work. Therefore, you will either accept it as it is or your mind will again reject this state of affairs.
For understanding, you need a philosophical mind or faith, then understanding will come.

45 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Yup. Deaf, dumb, blind and stupid. Totally random.

Your words are already a contradiction. If initially nature is blind and deaf, then where does the mind on the planet come from after?
And I’ll tell you, in order to take something from somewhere, you must first have it earlier, therefore our mind and consciousness were taken from the mind of God and adapted to our needs. Cause and effect.And according to your logic, magic turns out - absolutely unconscious Nature creates a conscious life. So your logic is limping on both legs. My logic is consistent: Consciousness (of God) manifests the consciousness of a plant, animal, human, and so on.

 

[zep73]

10 minutes ago, Coil said:

Consciousness is being, it exists and does not come from anywhere, does not begin and does not leave. It simply always exists.
It’s hard for us to understand because we see the emergence of every thing and we know the beginning of the universe so that it’s just a Self-existing, Causeless Consciousness and do not try to squeeze it into the framework of science and physics here our narrow laws do not work. Therefore, you will either accept it as it is or your mind will again reject this state of affairs.
For understanding, you need a philosophical mind or faith, then understanding will come.

Your words are already a contradiction. If initially nature is blind and deaf, then where does the mind on the planet come from after?
And I’ll tell you, in order to take something from somewhere, you must first have it earlier, therefore our mind and consciousness were taken from the mind of God and adapted to our needs. Cause and effect.And according to your logic, magic turns out - absolutely unconscious Nature creates a conscious life. So your logic is limping on both legs. My logic is consistent: Consciousness (of God) manifests the consciousness of a plant, animal, human, and so on.

 

I wish you a happy life. I do not share your views, but if they make you happy, then it's good.

[XenoFish]

In order for consciousness to exist something has to create it. What is it and where did it come from? 

If it created itself, something had to exist before hand.

[Habitat]

29 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

In order for consciousness to exist something has to create it. What is it and where did it come from? 

If it created itself, something had to exist before hand.

Wise people quickly realize there is no rational solution to such problems, but those that persist in thinking otherwise...…..

[psyche101]

7 hours ago, Habitat said:

Wise people quickly realize there is no rational solution to such problems, but those that persist in thinking otherwise...…..

Well I don't think anyone considers you wise despite that as you suggest above, you advocate ignorance as opposed to exploration. So sitting on your hands playing dumb doesn't get anyone anywhere nor does it make one wise. There's no good reason at all to dismiss rationality. That's utterly pointless. 

It is just an easier way for you to promote your irrational imagination. 

[Habitat]

19 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

There's no good reason at all to dismiss rationality.

For most practical prposes, rationality is indispensable, for the purposes of the problem mentioned, self-evidently not going to produce an answer.

[psyche101]

6 minutes ago, Habitat said:

For most practical prposes, rationality is indispensable, for the purposes of the problem mentioned, self-evidently not going to produce an answer.

It depends if one is after a specific predetermined answer or if one is open to what comes. If you have decided an event is supernatural and beyond understanding, then you haven't a hope in ever understanding anything. You have already decided an answer is impossible. 

Which makes things easier if promoting superstition doesn't it. 

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

one is open to what comes.

Nothing that makes rational sense, can come, simple as that/

[psyche101]

3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Nothing that makes rational sense, can come, simple as that/

Well thats hardly obeying your ignorance mantra is it. You claim to know people cannot know. 

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Well thats hardly obeying your ignorance mantra is it. You claim to know people cannot know. 

Give me a theory, any theory, of "existence" that can't be queried as to unexplained antecedent causes.

[psyche101]

47 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Give me a theory, any theory, of "existence" that can't be queried as to unexplained antecedent causes.

I already have. A difference of potential doesn't require anything more than an imbalance in any system to change state. Its common in many aspects of nature. Catalysts, electricity they exist because of the process you insist doesn't exist or cannot have any effect on, yet we see such every day. You either don't understand that or dismiss it out of ignorance. Bring virtual particles into that picture, and you have a transient state of space. 

[Habitat]

7 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I already have. A difference of potential doesn't require anything more than an imbalance in any system to change state. Its common in many aspects of nature. Catalysts, electricity they exist because of the process you insist doesn't exist or cannot have any effect on, yet we see such every day. You either don't understand that or dismiss it out of ignorance. Bring virtual particles into that picture, and you have a transient state of space. 

"Bullship Baffles Brains " ?

[Coil]

10 hours ago, XenoFish said:

In order for consciousness to exist something has to create it. What is it and where did it come from? 

If it created itself, something had to exist before hand.

You can’t understand in any way that God was not created by anyone, he is the Self-existing Absolute and is not a derivative thing that was created by someone earlier.It’s difficult for a person to understand what Eternal and Infinite Existence is because the human mind can only operate with visible and finite things.Just don’t need to conclude that if you can’t understand what the Eternal and the Unborn is, then that means God does not exist because the mind cannot realize and embrace the Eternal. Since there are many things that exist but a person cannot understand them. So, to understand God need a divine mind.

 

 

[XenoFish]

I gave an example of how to think of eternity in another thread and if something else created god where did it come from. Nothing is eternal no-thing is not. All things have a finite lifespan, even a god would. Something eternal is frozen, no changes, no movement, nothing happen at all. The problem is if something or someone is eternal, having no beginning or end, then they are finite. Having to first exist in order to be eternal, which already invalidates their eternal existence. Even an eternal space contradicts itself, due to having to be created. 

Too many flaws writhing divine concepts. 

[Habitat]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I gave an example of how to think of eternity in another thread and if something else created god where did it come from. Nothing is eternal no-thing is not. All things have a finite lifespan, even a god would. Something eternal is frozen, no changes, no movement, nothing happen at all. The problem is if something or someone is eternal, having no beginning or end, then they are finite. Having to first exist in order to be eternal, which already invalidates their eternal existence. Even an eternal space contradicts itself, due to having to be created. 

Too many flaws writhing divine concepts. 

The flaw is in thinking rational thinking can apprehend this matter, it cannot.

[XenoFish]

4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

The flaw is in thinking rational thinking can apprehend this matter, it cannot.

Yeah, thinking is apparently not a strong point for some people. And forget rational thinking, I mean who would dare to every challenge their own thoughts and beliefs. It's better to just move the goal post when the other team has covered more ground. 

[Habitat]

5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Yeah, thinking is apparently not a strong point for some people. And forget rational thinking, I mean who would dare to every challenge their own thoughts and beliefs. It's better to just move the goal post when the other team has covered more ground. 

Think about what rational thought involves, it deals in the relationships between elements within a system, and is ultimately mute regarding the existence of the overall system. The etymology of the word is clear, but somewhere a long the line, people have come to imagine that rational thinking, is right thinking, and universally so. Not so, not for this question,

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

Think about what rational thought involves, it deals in the relationships between elements within a system, and is ultimately mute regarding the existence of the overall system. The etymology of the word is clear, but somewhere a long the line, people have come to imagine that rational thinking, is right thinking, and universally so. Not so, not for this question,

We're talking about eternity. If you can conceptualize it, you can reason it. If you can't think about questions from a reasonable, rational, and logical perspective then you might as well not think or question anything. The only thing left for those who can't/won't question is a fantasy world. 

[Habitat]

Not the question of how there is a "system"  within which rational processes can be applied. They are subsidiary.

[psyche101]

3 hours ago, Habitat said:

"Bullship Baffles Brains " ?

Nope, I believe the technical description would be 

'You're thick' 

[psyche101]

2 hours ago, Habitat said:

The flaw is in thinking rational thinking can apprehend this matter, it cannot.

Bullship doesn't baffle in your case does it! Its just bullship! 

Just another example of 11th century thinking from our resident Napoleon impersonator. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by psyche101

[Habitat]

Just now, psyche101 said:

Bullship doesn't baffle in this case does it! Its just bullship! 

Just another example of 11th century thinking from our resident Napoleon impersonator. 

it is clear that the "team" worship the God of rationalism. Which is good so far as it works. But no further,

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

it is clear that the "team" worship the God of rationalism. Which is good so far as it works. But no further,

Maybe you should switch teams. Might improve your batting average. Would give you a chance to hit a homerun instead of foul balls and poor sportsmanship.

[psyche101]

4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

it is clear that the "team" worship the God of rationalism.

Interesting choice of words. You tend to default to religious views often don't you. Says more about where you're coming from than you realise I think. 

4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Which is good so far as it works. But no further,

Great words for an enemy of reason. But I don't think anyone finds your tales of the great morse code office in the sky so compelling that superstitions become a viable option. 

[Habitat]

11 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

the great morse code office in the sky

They probably wouldn't  want me on their "team" either !