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Pettytalk

Why is there existence, rather than nothing?

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Habitat
24 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Maybe you should switch teams. Might improve your batting average. Would give you a chance to hit a homerun instead of foul balls and poor sportsmanship.

Now, now, no hostility intended at this end. If as the sages say ( so do at least some physicists ), that the multiplicity is only apparent, then I'd be being nasty to myself !

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Habitat
27 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Interesting choice of words. You tend to default to religious views often don't you. Says more about where you're coming from than you realise I think. 

Great words for an enemy of reason. But I don't think anyone finds your tales of the great morse code office in the sky so compelling that superstitions become a viable option. 

I'm sure you've heard it said, many times, that some people worship the almighty dollar, it isn't a reference to religion, it is a reference to greed, an obsession with money. Obsessions of all kinds are fraught, including religious fanaticism./

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lightly

It's becoming obvious to me that Consiousness evolved so people could argue about how it happened.

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Coil
21 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I gave an example of how to think of eternity in another thread and if something else created god where did it come from. Nothing is eternal no-thing is not. All things have a finite lifespan, even a god would.

 
At the level of God there is no entropy, therefore death and exhaustion of creatures and objects do not occur. If there is no death, then there is no birth-creation but eternal existence.Therefore, when a person comprehends his spirit, he realizes that he is an eternally unborn and uncreated being.
 
 
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XenoFish
8 hours ago, Coil said:
 
At the level of God there is no entropy, therefore death and exhaustion of creatures and objects do not occur. If there is no death, then there is no birth-creation but eternal existence.Therefore, when a person comprehends his spirit, he realizes that he is an eternally unborn and uncreated being.
 
 

How can eternal existence exist without a cause. Also, how can a entity that is eternal (thus unchanging) create a universe (that changes and dies). Without a beginning there is no end, eternity would either be a blank slate or nothing is eternal, not even a god. In addition if god is unborn and uncreated, how can a being that doesn't exist create anything. 

Some olympic level mental gymnastic here folks.

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Coil
20 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

How can eternal existence exist without a cause. Also, how can a entity that is eternal (thus unchanging) create a universe (that changes and dies). Without a beginning there is no end, eternity would either be a blank slate or nothing is eternal, not even a god. In addition if god is unborn and uncreated, how can a being that doesn't exist create anything. 

Some olympic level mental gymnastic here folks.

This is the state of things. Even if you were looking for an earlier cause, you would still come to something original whom no one created and this is the Self-Existing Absolute. You cannot constantly run away into the distance delaying the Causeless Cause.

I don’t see any contradictions why the Unchangeable cannot give rise to the changeable. Here, we also realize that we are the same person as we were in childhood, even though we acquired knowledge and changed outwardly, that is, there is something unchanging in us (our Self) and a variable part (mind with information, body and feelings).

If a person were completely mortal, then he would not be able to live in the universe from the beginning of existence, because from the beginning of the universe we are already here which means that we reincarnate and the eternal spirit supports us from the beginning of the creation of the universe, therefore in time or outside the universe we are stably eternal inside as well as God.

In any case, you cannot apply the laws of our world, birth and death to God, you must consider it as it is described in the spiritual books. With such success, the ant can, from its point of view, think in the framework of the ant mind but the human mind knows and sees more than the ant.

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XenoFish

If something is unchanging, it can change nothing. It is basically frozen. Perpetually the same. 

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Coil
59 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If something is unchanging, it can change nothing. It is basically frozen. Perpetually the same. 


You think again within the framework of human knowledge.
God combines where man sees opposites. One must learn to contain opposites.
God is not this or that it is the Other that generates all kinds of life forms, therefore it must be higher than the Immutable and Movable, although it remains the same Absolute as it always is.

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psyche101
On 8/22/2019 at 9:46 PM, Habitat said:

They probably wouldn't  want me on their "team" either !

The only place you actually 'fit in' is with your imagination so that's no surprise really us it. 

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psyche101
On 8/22/2019 at 7:20 AM, Coil said:


Consciousness is being, it exists and does not come from anywhere, does not begin and does not leave. It simply always exists.
It’s hard for us to understand because we see the emergence of every thing and we know the beginning of the universe so that it’s just a Self-existing, Causeless Consciousness and do not try to squeeze it into the framework of science and physics here our narrow laws do not work. Therefore, you will either accept it as it is or your mind will again reject this state of affairs.
For understanding, you need a philosophical mind or faith, then understanding will come.


Your words are already a contradiction. If initially nature is blind and deaf, then where does the mind on the planet come from after?
And I’ll tell you, in order to take something from somewhere, you must first have it earlier, therefore our mind and consciousness were taken from the mind of God and adapted to our needs. Cause and effect.
And according to your logic, magic turns out - absolutely unconscious Nature creates a conscious life. So your logic is limping on both legs. My logic is consistent: Consciousness (of God) manifests the consciousness of a plant, animal, human, and so on.

 

Gosh you make some nonsense up. 

Consciousness is a set of evolved responses. Not imaginary claptrap made up to support a cultural ideology. 

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psyche101
On 8/22/2019 at 10:06 PM, Habitat said:

I'm sure you've heard it said, many times, that some people worship the almighty dollar, it isn't a reference to religion, it is a reference to greed, an obsession with money. Obsessions of all kinds are fraught, including religious fanaticism./

I've heard it said that the love of money is actually the real problem. Your wording indicates how religion has jailed your mind. 

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Habitat
2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I've heard it said that the love of money is actually the real problem. Your wording indicates how religion has jailed your mind. 

On the contrary, manifestations of religion I have found about the least intrusive or confining  thing in my life. 

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Habitat
2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

The only place you actually 'fit in' is with your imagination so that's no surprise really us it. 

So many of your posts betray a thoroughly ungenerous spirit, but your disdain, stemming as it does from ignorance, is of no concern to me.

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psyche101
4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

On the contrary, manifestations of religion I have found about the least intrusive or confining  thing in my life. 

With predetermined conclusions and constant religious references? I think the only person you are kidding is yourself. 

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psyche101
45 minutes ago, Habitat said:

So many of your posts betray a thoroughly ungenerous spirit, but your disdain, stemming as it does from ignorance, is of no concern to me.

Spirit as in character or some spiritual mumbo jumbo? 

You're not the only poster who has stated others as being ignorant of a spiritual outlook, placing yourself above others and as one with esoteric knowledge. Like you think of yourself as a high priest or something. Thing is, it's pretty useless. Many would argue over your ideas forcing their own 'corrections' on place. Just like you do when defeated in debates. Yet the science you call so limiting has permeated and assisted the species time and again. Removal of dangerous diseases, artificial limbs, the very device you use to deliberately disparage knowledge and rant about your inane and boring regurgitations rebranded as your own belief system. What's spiritual enlightenment bring? Discord, argument, undermining real knowledge. There are no medical or technological advances from sprituity, it seperates people (why you are so disliked by so many) and as in your case, gives people a false sense of superiority. 

As i've said many times, the only person you are fooling is yourself. You don't look like some great sage, you lookike a kook who has lost his grasp on reality. 

And of course you care. You follow skeptics around like a dog sniffing butt's at a dog park. Always a snide remark, never short of an insult. If spirituality was a genuine pursuit, your example would drive most away from it. 

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Habitat
35 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Spirit as in character or some spiritual mumbo jumbo? 

You're not the only poster who has stated others as being ignorant of a spiritual outlook, placing yourself above others and as one with esoteric knowledge. Like you think of yourself as a high priest or something. Thing is, it's pretty useless. Many would argue over your ideas forcing their own 'corrections' on place. Just like you do when defeated in debates. Yet the science you call so limiting has permeated and assisted the species time and again. Removal of dangerous diseases, artificial limbs, the very device you use to deliberately disparage knowledge and rant about your inane and boring regurgitations rebranded as your own belief system. What's spiritual enlightenment bring? Discord, argument, undermining real knowledge. There are no medical or technological advances from sprituity, it seperates people (why you are so disliked by so many) and as in your case, gives people a false sense of superiority. 

As i've said many times, the only person you are fooling is yourself. You don't look like some great sage, you lookike a kook who has lost his grasp on reality. 

And of course you care. You follow skeptics around like a dog sniffing butt's at a dog park. Always a snide remark, never short of an insult. If spirituality was a genuine pursuit, your example would drive most away from it. 

You appear to have the attributes of a dictator, wanting to shut down all opposition to your viewpoint. Driving people away, that is you, not me, and I would reckon a great many would have left these boards, unwilling to accept the free rein that your hectoring antics are seemingly given. I, though, am not that "offended".

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Free99

Forget science. Forget God. This is the ultimate question: What if Everything had Forever been Nothing? Not just emptiness, not just blankness, but not even the existence of emptiness, not even the meaning of blankness, and no Forever. If you don't get dizzy, you really don't get it.....  Imagine that not a single thing ever existed. If you can image that, now ask yourself: why is there anything at all?

It's hard to forget science because it can twist this into a thousand different directions and can sum it all up with one equation or another based on what we have science can prove. I don't buy into the living inside a computer simulation idea. At least not in the sense of the technology we have and use. I do believe in God  so for me it's hard to forget this idea. My belief is we are aware of our own existence enough to wonder and question it. We like to think we fully understand it and go about our life based on that belief alone. And this is what we are designed to do without this ability we would be screwed. Like it says above Why is there anything at all? If the rest of that what if stuff mentioned held any truth you wouldn't be here, you wouldn't have read a single word of it. Why is there anything at all? Two reasons I can think of #1 God put us here or #2 Evolution we evolved from something. But then you also got #3 Aliens and #4 Computer Simulation. I'm sticking with #1

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psyche101
2 hours ago, Habitat said:

You appear to have the attributes of a dictator, wanting to shut down all opposition to your viewpoint.

Why do you lie? 

Its really not all that hard to use the search function. It can show that I have asked you many times to show flaws misrepresentations or fabrication as you have claimed. I have even bullet pointed the argument to make it easy for you to refute. 

All you did was hurl insults. 

I can only figure you have had to lie as you have no argument at all, as shown by those very examples. You're just a belligerent ass. 

Quote

Driving people away, that is you, not me,

Nope, most simply leave when they have no argument left. You have decided the option of lying suits you better. 

Quote

and I would reckon a great many would have left these boards, unwilling to accept the free rein that your hectoring antics are seemingly given.

There's the belief section that's pretty much free of my presence. They can leave to that section of the boards and babble nonsense unhindered by logic reason or facts. So that's BS too. 

Quote

I, though, am not that "offended".

No. You're thoroughly offensive. 

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psyche101
1 hour ago, Free99 said:

Forget science. Forget God. This is the ultimate question: What if Everything had Forever been Nothing? Not just emptiness, not just blankness, but not even the existence of emptiness, not even the meaning of blankness, and no Forever. If you don't get dizzy, you really don't get it.....  Imagine that not a single thing ever existed. If you can image that, now ask yourself: why is there anything at all?

It's hard to forget science because it can twist this into a thousand different directions and can sum it all up with one equation or another based on what we have science can prove. I don't buy into the living inside a computer simulation idea. At least not in the sense of the technology we have and use. I do believe in God  so for me it's hard to forget this idea. My belief is we are aware of our own existence enough to wonder and question it. We like to think we fully understand it and go about our life based on that belief alone. And this is what we are designed to do without this ability we would be screwed. Like it says above Why is there anything at all? If the rest of that what if stuff mentioned held any truth you wouldn't be here, you wouldn't have read a single word of it. Why is there anything at all? Two reasons I can think of #1 God put us here or #2 Evolution we evolved from something. But then you also got #3 Aliens and #4 Computer Simulation. I'm sticking with #1

1,3 & 4 are not supported by evidence. #2 is. 

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Habitat
1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Why do you lie? 

Its really not all that hard to use the search function. It can show that I have asked you many times to show flaws misrepresentations or fabrication as you have claimed. I have even bullet pointed the argument to make it easy for you to refute. 

All you did was hurl insults. 

I can only figure you have had to lie as you have no argument at all, as shown by those very examples. You're just a belligerent ass. 

Nope, most simply leave when they have no argument left. You have decided the option of lying suits you better. 

There's the belief section that's pretty much free of my presence. They can leave to that section of the boards and babble nonsense unhindered by logic reason or facts. So that's BS too. 

No. You're thoroughly offensive. 

I'm flattered you see me as such a threat.

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psyche101
Just now, Habitat said:

I'm flattered you see me as such a threat.

Do you think a liar is a threat? 

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Do you think a liar is a threat? 

Displaying your penchant for handling the truth carelessly, yet again. You are a poor advertisement for the team.

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psyche101
25 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Displaying your penchant for handling the truth carelessly, yet again. You are a poor advertisement for the team.

What was not true? Are you deny that I have asked you many times to show where the argument is at fault and bullet pointed it for your ease of reply?

Do you keep childishly prattling on about teams because nobody likes you? 

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