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Manwon Lender

What's causing the mass shootings in the USA

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)

What has changed in America, that creates an environment where people conduct mass killings. I don't think it's the Guns, the country since it inception has always had armed civilians. There has always been mental illness, it gos back as far as the country itself. Could it be disparate, could people have come to a point where they can no longer live the American dream or have people lost faith in the tenons of our country. So what has been the major change that makes people want to harm others in such horrific ways. There has to be a way to stop all this violents, I personally do not think our Government is doing enough to solve this problem, truth be know I don't even know if they can. But something must be done our people should not be afraid to go out and live their lives, and that is what it is coming too.

I would appreciate any and all your thoughts on this subject

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Buzz_Light_Year
Posted (edited)

https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/prescription-for-violence-the-corresponding-rise-of-antidepressants-ssris-mass-shootings/
 

Quote

 

Here are just some examples:

1989: Joseph T. Wesbecker walked into his former employer Standard Gravure Corp and shot 20 workers, killing nine. He had been taking Prozac for a month. This shooting led to a landmark case, where the survivors sued the makers of Prozac, Eli Lilly. Wesbecker used a semiautomatic Chinese AK-47-style firearm, a 9mm pistol, and a .38 Special snubnose revolver – all of which he purchased legally, passing his background check.

1995: Jarred Viktor was 15 when he was prescribed Paxil. Ten days after starting it, Viktor stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

1996: At 18, Kurt Danysh murdered his father just 17 days after being prescribed Prozac by his family doctor, who failed to do even one psychological test. During his police confession, Danysh told police the medication made him feel odd, “I just act differently. I don’t have the energy or personality I used to. I spend half the time in a trance.”

1997: Luke Woodham stabbed his mother, then traveled to Pearl High School, where he was enrolled, using a .30-30 to shoot two students and wound six others; he was stopped by his assistant principal (aka a good guy with a gun) who used his own .45 ACP handgun to force Woodham’s surrender.

1998: 15-year-old Kip Kinkel shot both of his parents, then carried a 9mm handgun, .22 rifle, and a .22 pistol to his Thurston High School, where he murdered two classmates and injured 22 more, all while taking Prozac.

 

Edited by Saru
Trimmed for length - the rest can be viewed in the link.
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Sir Smoke aLot

There are many causes which all together make environment for such crimes to happen. There are junkies, mental patients, weapons and supermarkets or schools all around the world and jet there are no similar attacks.

I guessed it was because of large population in the nation but then why such things do not happen in India or China, nations which are believed to be behind USA in terms of life standard and happiness.

It's really tough situation. 

When did those shootings, mass shootings started to occur? Since 1980's? 1950's? 1970? That is good starting point in finding causes.

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Manwon Lender
10 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

There are many causes which all together make environment for such crimes to happen. There are junkies, mental patients, weapons and supermarkets or schools all around the world and jet there are no similar attacks.

I guessed it was because of large population in the nation but then why such things do not happen in India or China, nations which are believed to be behind USA in terms of life standard and happiness.

It's really tough situation. 

When did those shootings, mass shootings started to occur? Since 1980's? 1950's? 1970? That is good starting point in finding causes.

They started to occur in the late 1980s, before that there were only isolated incidents. I am starting to think that what's going on today may have something to do with hopelessness. It seems that many of the shooters are in their early 30s down into the teens only a few appear to be older. 

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Sir Smoke aLot
10 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

They started to occur in the late 1980s, before that there were only isolated incidents. I am starting to think that what's going on today may have something to do with hopelessness. It seems that many of the shooters are in their early 30s down into the teens only a few appear to be older. 

There must be something concrete to be found if we know it started in late 1980's. I do not believe that drugs can induce such brutal behavior. Regardless of that interesting example list from @Buzz_Light_Year post.

It's also hard to imagine that someone might be forcing this in order to gain something, that would be organized terrorism and number of victims over the years exclude that option for me. But what is left, mental disorders? Or not since there are mentally ill people everywhere and gun is not hard to find...

I do not know it's crazy problem to deal with :(

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RoofGardener

Well, mass shootings have been recorded as far back as 1920's, though it DOES seem to have accelerated steadily since then. 

Here's a suggestion: mass shootings are proportional to mass media. The more media, the more shootings. (I include the internet as being a "mass media"). 

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Habitat

The figures for private possession of military weapons, world wide, would put most in the USA, naturally that gives a head start for the occurrence of these shootings. But obviously not the whole story, there is a cultural dimension at work.

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Sir Smoke aLot
10 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, mass shootings have been recorded as far back as 1920's, though it DOES seem to have accelerated steadily since then. 

Here's a suggestion: mass shootings are proportional to mass media. The more media, the more shootings. (I include the internet as being a "mass media"). 

If we have less independent and objective media - we get more disorder and violence. Harsher state control is not really a bad thing. 

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preacherman76

I have yet to see a mass shooter who wasn't on dangerous mind altering prescribed drugs. Made by the same companies that pay for MSM. Double whammy

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Habitat
21 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I have yet to see a mass shooter who wasn't on dangerous mind altering prescribed drugs. Made by the same companies that pay for MSM. Double whammy

What are you relying on for information about that ? It might well play a part, but who is keeping tally ?

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

If we have less independent and objective media - we get more disorder and violence. Harsher state control is not really a bad thing. 

Hmm.. interesting theory. I think there may be something in that. About the disorder and violence, that is, not about harsher state control. 

Edited by RoofGardener
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spartan max2

Population growth 

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Robotic Jew

Mass shooters are just the new serial killers. As police tactics and scientific advancements are made in investigative technology people will move towards crimes where they can get the highest kill count in the shortest amount of time. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)

i can tell who commits such shootings, in vast majority of cases young kids in their 20s, or even younger, with antisocial behavior, and who have mental issues,  that are known before.  their SM pages are red flags times 10

Edited by aztek
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spartan max2
1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

I have yet to see a mass shooter who wasn't on dangerous mind altering prescribed drugs. Made by the same companies that pay for MSM. Double whammy

That just shows that mass shooters have some kind of mental illness, hence why they are taking meds.

For example I'm sure most suicides took antidepressants. The antidepressants aren't causing the suicides, depressed and suicidal people are just more likely to be taking antidepressants as treatment. A happy person has no reason to take them.

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Susanc241
Posted (edited)

I started this before any replies had been posted but had to abandon it as had to go out.....

I don’t live in the USA, but we have some gun crime and a lot of knife crime here.  I don’t think it is one, or even two or three things that are causing this.  I think it is much more complicated.  There seems to be a huge sense of entitlement amongst people of today, especially the younger ones.  The world owes them a living and except in a minority of cases people really do not understand or experience true poverty and deprivation and hardship.  I am talking generalities here, but children grow up thinking that if they don’t have the right brand of trainers, the most up-to-date electronic gizmos etc that they are deprived and picked upon.  They become victims (in their eyes).

Mankind is inherently violent.  There is no structured outlet for adolescent aggression these days (a natural phase in most young males and some females) and their need to take risks and test their mortality.  There are very few truly physical jobs - most involve a desk, computer, car, shop floor, kitchen etc.  The aggression has nowhere to be physically and legitimately expressed, but only on a mental level via violent computer games, gangs and drugs.  National Service had its uses even in times of non hostilities.  

Too much choice all around be that food, drink, entertainment, what they do with their time etc.  And most forms of child chastisement is illegal in the West; knowing all their rights and none of their responsibilities.  Parents afraid to discipline their offspring and frightened of 'hurting the child’s feelings', wanting to be best friends with their children and not be parents.  Parents who don’t give time and attention to their children but buy 'stuff' to compensate.  I think it boils down to a lack of proper consistent structure in an individual child’s upbringing being the bedrock on which the atrocities that may go on to be committed are laid.

Then there are the societies/communities in the world today - where anything goes.  No true boundaries because the minorities must be evelvated up higher than the core members of society.  Too many people are seen, or see themselves as victims, often on the flimsiest of reasons.  It is everyone else's fault, never theirs.  The universe revolves around them - a stage in life one should grow out of around the ages of 2 to 3.  Those that should know better pander to them in ridiculous ways (IMO) rather than being told to stop focusing on themselves and to look outwards to see where they can help others.

It has recently been posited that the brain doesn’t mature until the age of at least 25 yet we treat teenagers and young 20s like adults, expecting them to have an adults way of processing the world.

Rambled on enough!  Just give me a few seconds warning before the ton of bricks fall! ;)

 

 

Edited by Susanc241
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preacherman76
50 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

That just shows that mass shooters have some kind of mental illness, hence why they are taking meds.

For example I'm sure most suicides took antidepressants. The antidepressants aren't causing the suicides, depressed and suicidal people are just more likely to be taking antidepressants as treatment. A happy person has no reason to take them.

Ya gotta read the fine print on these drugs. They straight say they can make you violent and suicidal.

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Habitat

Probably a mix of prescription and illegal drugs too.

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susieice
13 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Probably a mix of prescription and illegal drugs too.

Biggest drug market in the world.

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and then
2 hours ago, Habitat said:

The figures for private possession of military weapons

This does NOT HAPPEN... how many times must this fact be pointed out?  Military weapons are extremely well regulated and only a tiny fraction of a % of the weapons in private hands are fully automatic.  I've yet to hear of a single mass killing where one was used.  

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Habitat
1 minute ago, and then said:

This does NOT HAPPEN... how many times must this fact be pointed out?  Military weapons are extremely well regulated and only a tiny fraction of a % of the weapons in private hands are fully automatic.  I've yet to hear of a single mass killing where one was used.  

Alright, perhaps a technical point, but the Vegas shooter had adapted his semi-automatics in a way that made them only marginally less lethal.

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susieice
33 minutes ago, Susanc241 said:

I started this before any replies had been posted but had to abandon it as had to go out.....

I don’t live in the USA, but we have some gun crime and a lot of knife crime here.  I don’t think it is one, or even two or three things that are causing this.  I think it is much more complicated.  There seems to be a huge sense of entitlement amongst people of today, especially the younger ones.  The world owes them a living and except in a minority of cases people really do not understand or experience true poverty and deprivation and hardship.  I am talking generalities here, but children grow up thinking that if they don’t have the right brand of trainers, the most up-to-date electronic gizmos etc that they are deprived and picked upon.  They become victims (in their eyes).

Mankind is inherently violent.  There is no structured outlet for adolescent aggression these days (a natural phase in most young males and some females) and their need to take risks and test their mortality.  There are very few truly physical jobs - most involve a desk, computer, car, shop floor, kitchen etc.  The aggression has nowhere to be physically and legitimately expressed, but only on a mental level via violent computer games, gangs and drugs.  National Service had its uses even in times of non hostilities.  

Too much choice all around be that food, drink, entertainment, what they do with their time etc.  And most forms of child chastisement is illegal in the West; knowing all their rights and none of their responsibilities.  Parents afraid to discipline their offspring and frightened of 'hurting the child’s feelings', wanting to be best friends with their children and not be parents.  Parents who don’t give time and attention to their children but buy 'stuff' to compensate.  I think it boils down to a lack of proper consistent structure in an individual child’s upbringing being the bedrock on which the atrocities that may go on to be committed are laid.

Then there are the societies/communities in the world today - where anything goes.  No true boundaries because the minorities must be evelvated up higher than the core members of society.  Too many people are seen, or see themselves as victims, often on the flimsiest of reasons.  It is everyone else's fault, never theirs.  The universe revolves around them - a stage in life one should grow out of around the ages of 2 to 3.  Those that should know better pander to them in ridiculous ways (IMO) rather than being told to stop focusing on themselves and to look outwards to see where they can help others.

It has recently been posited that the brain doesn’t mature until the age of at least 25 yet we treat teenagers and young 20s like adults, expecting them to have an adults way of processing the world.

Rambled on enough!  Just give me a few seconds warning before the ton of bricks fall! ;)

 

 

I'm not going to jump on you. See a lot of that in here. Take a generation of kids. Teach them to disrespect law because it's only there to be broken and they are too entitled to have to live under it. Instead of trying to find solutions to the problem call everyone and everything racist. Throw in all the drugs. Nobody should be surprised.

Have you seen the parents of that kid being held in Italy? Talk about entitlement. The kid is facing life in prison. Yes, that usually happens when you do what they did. You can't say the Italians have no right to prosecute. Why did the kid take the knife over there with him in the first place? 

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susieice
3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Alright, perhaps a technical point, but the Vegas shooter had adapted his semi-automatics in a way that made them only marginally less lethal.

It's illegal to alter a weapon to make it fully automatic too but people who know how to can do it.

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and then

Those were "Bump Stocks" and to my knowledge, that was the first and only time they've been used in such a killing.  Most gun owners had no problem with them being outlawed because they had only a single purpose.  They did not add to accuracy, they were just about spraying bullets.  In the discussion of this very emotional topic, it does all of us a disservice not to be accurate with our language.  The problem is fear-inducing enough as it is.

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