What's causing the mass shootings in the USA

[+and-then]

On 8/19/2019 at 12:34 AM, Manwon Lender said:

If a person is falsely accused it will come to light very quickly.

Will it?  Look at the past 3 years and the media circus around Russian conspiracy.  I don't mean to derail and I'll leave it at that but this is another manifestation of the corrosive nature of our politics.  We are losing our respect, nationally and culturally, for abiding voluntarily with the law.

That said, I would have no problem with a legal mechanism for family members or friends to use to report someone who is behaving erratically and who has access to firearms.  It raises an interesting issue though.  If citizen A is reported to be a danger and law enforcement take him/her in for questioning, does that mean the government seize every weapon in the home they reside in?  What if, as in the case of the evil piece of work in Newtown, CT, none of the guns were his?  Can the government seize the property of someone who has not shown themselves to be behaving as a danger to the public?

If the answer to that is yes then our 4th Amendment freedoms go away like thistle down on a breeze.  Rights that are voluntarily surrendered don't ever get returned. 

We are going to have political pressure to "do SOMETHING" because people use scary looking long semi-auto guns to express their rage in a public spectacle.  The truth is that rifles are used to murder fewer people than hammers or knives.  This is fact, not hyperbole.  I would much rather live in a nation where people are held accountable for their own actions than one where a faceless government functionary tells me how to live "for my own good" and for the "safety of the children".  

This is about RIGHTS.  We are fast approaching a time when Americans are going to have to decide where they stand on freedom and what price it is worth to them.

[+Desertrat56]

7 minutes ago, and then said:

Will it?  Look at the past 3 years and the media circus around Russian conspiracy.  I don't mean to derail and I'll leave it at that but this is another manifestation of the corrosive nature of our politics.  We are losing our respect, nationally and culturally, for abiding voluntarily with the law.

That said, I would have no problem with a legal mechanism for family members or friends to use to report someone who is behaving erratically and who has access to firearms.  It raises an interesting issue though.  If citizen A is reported to be a danger and law enforcement take him/her in for questioning, does that mean the government seize every weapon in the home they reside in?  What if, as in the case of the evil piece of work in Newtown, CT, none of the guns were his?  Can the government seize the property of someone who has not shown themselves to be behaving as a danger to the public?

If the answer to that is yes then our 4th Amendment freedoms go away like thistle down on a breeze.  Rights that are voluntarily surrendered don't ever get returned. 

We are going to have political pressure to "do SOMETHING" because people use scary looking long semi-auto guns to express their rage in a public spectacle.  The truth is that rifles are used to murder fewer people than hammers or knives.  This is fact, not hyperbole.  I would much rather live in a nation where people are held accountable for their own actions than one where a faceless government functionary tells me how to live "for my own good" and for the "safety of the children".  

This is about RIGHTS.  We are fast approaching a time when Americans are going to have to decide where they stand on freedom and what price it is worth to them.

Just as an example of how this can go horribly wrong, a unit I was in in the army had a sergeant who did not want women in the army and took upon himself to get as many of them out as possible.  He also took it upon himself to identify gay men and get them out, even it in involved lying.  And once a man who was not gay, stupid drunk, though he was, got in a bar fight with a german in a german bar and the guy who he fought with went to the C.O. two days later and told a story that he was worried about this guy as they had been lovers for months and now the guy would have nothing to do with him.  It was a lie and it worked.  The sergeant zealously did an "investigation" and discounted the fact that the soldier had not met the guy he fought with before the night of the fight and got him kicked out of the army.   This kind of thing happens in civilian life as well and if authorities become overzealous in their "protection" of the public, many people will be thrown under the bus with no recourse.

[+and-then]

On 8/14/2019 at 8:47 AM, aztek said:

A Florida mom allegedly threatened to shoot up an elementary school because she was upset over her kids' move to a different building -- and made reference to Parkland shooter Nikolas Cruz in a conversation about the threat, according to documents.

Miranda Perez, 28, of Lake Worth, Florida, has been charged with sending a written threat to conduct a mass shooting, according to the probable cause affidavit.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/mom-upset-over-kids-move-allegedly-threatens-shoot-170108563--abc-news-topstories.html

so another possible MS stopped, and it was not that hard, juts pay attention to what people say. 

Yet this woman almost certainly was venting her anger in an immature way and once her situation was investigated, it would become obvious that she was just an angry, frustrated person that needed to calm down.  I'll be interested to see what enforcement looks like with these Red Flag statutes that are coming.  The tendency will be for law enforcement to err ALWAYS on the side of maximum constraint against a suspect so that they cannot be vilified later should they release someone who turned out to be a real threat.  What about their property?  Do their legally purchased weapons get returned to them in a timely way?  Ever?

If they live with someone else does that person also lose their weapons?  This has the potential for some serious government overreach and dilution of our rights, all in the quest to keep us safe.  I'd rather live in a nation where there was less hysteria over being protected from risk and more demands that our liberty be protected.  

We are where we are because of moral degradation and lawlessness.  Taking scary looking semi-auto rifles will change that not at all.  If saving lives is the real goal, they need to confiscate all the hammers and kitchen knives:

https://checkyourfact.com/2018/03/29/fact-check-hammers-fists-rifles/

[aztek]

12 minutes ago, and then said:

Yet this woman almost certainly was venting her anger in an immature way and once her situation was investigated, it would become obvious that she was just an angry, frustrated person that needed to calm down.  I'll be interested to see what enforcement looks like with these Red Flag statutes that are coming.  The tendency will be for law enforcement to err ALWAYS on the side of maximum constraint against a suspect so that they cannot be vilified later should they release someone who turned out to be a real threat.  What about their property?  Do their legally purchased weapons get returned to them in a timely way?  Ever?

If they live with someone else does that person also lose their weapons?  This has the potential for some serious government overreach and dilution of our rights, all in the quest to keep us safe.  I'd rather live in a nation where there was less hysteria over being protected from risk and more demands that our liberty be protected.  

We are where we are because of moral degradation and lawlessness.  Taking scary looking semi-auto rifles will change that not at all.  If saving lives is the real goal, they need to confiscate all the hammers and kitchen knives:

https://checkyourfact.com/2018/03/29/fact-check-hammers-fists-rifles/

yes i expect this law be abused,  i do not think they will return your weapons,  especially in timely way,  i know for a fact if nypd takes yoru gun, you will spend more money for a lawyer to get them back than they worth, and even if you do get them back nypd makes sure they will never fire again, 

my fathers friend was moving and was dumb enough to let nypd keep his guns for safekeeping, it took him over a year to get them back, and when he did, they were basically destroyed

Edited August 23, 2019 by aztek

[+OverSword]

What causes mass shootings in the USA?  I have an idea.

Rat Park.

In the early 70's there was an experiment in which they put rats in cages with two water sources, one tap water the other water infused with morphine.  The rats invariably drank the drugged water until they died from overdose.  One researcher didn't agree with the methodology so he set up a variation of the experiment called Rat Park.  In rat park the rats were not locked in a cage by themselves with nothing to do but get high or not get high.  The environment was set up to be a good environment for them.  They had other rats to hang out with, including rats of the opposite sex, toys to play with, good food etc.  In a rich, positive, happy environment the rats tended to drink the tap water, just occasionally getting high compared to their lonely bored caged counterparts.  Even when they took the heavily addicted caged rats and moved them into Rat Park they shied away from the drugged water.

The conclusion is that drugs are not the root cause of addiction, environment is.  A negative/unhappy environment causes the negative behavior.

Now it's been pointed out that in the past there were plenty of guns in the USA  but we didn't have this epidemic of senseless mass shootings and the question is asked what's changed?  I believe what's changed is that we are not as happy and it is this pervasive unhappiness that is the root cause of our societal ills including drug addiction, mass shootings, homelessness and whatever other messed up thing you want to add which is currently worse than it has been in the past.

Edited August 23, 2019 by OverSword

[aztek]

17 minutes ago, OverSword said:

What causes mass shootings in the USA?  I have an idea.

Rat Park.

In the early 70's there was an experiment in which they put rats in cages with two water sources, one tap water the other water infused with morphine.  The rats invariably drank the drugged water until they died from overdose.  One researcher didn't agree with the methodology so he set up a variation of the experiment called Rat Park.  In rat park the rats were not locked in a cage by themselves with nothing to do but get high or not get high.  The environment was set up to be a good environment for them.  They had other rats to hang out with, including rats of the opposite sex, toys to play with, good food etc.  In a rich, positive, happy environment the rats tended to drink the tap water, just occasionally getting high compared to their lonely bored caged counterparts.  Even when they took the heavily addicted caged rats and moved them into Rat Park they shied away from the drugged water.

The conclusion is that drugs are not the root cause of addiction, environment is.  A negative/unhappy environment causes the negative behavior.

Now it's been pointed out that in the past there were plenty of guns in the USA  but we didn't have this epidemic of senseless mass shootings and the question is asked what's changed?  I believe what's changed is that we are not as happy and it is this pervasive unhappiness that is the root cause of our societal ills including drug addiction, mass shootings, homelessness and whatever other messed up thing you want to add which is currently worse than it has been in the past.

that is exactly what liberals do, make people angry hateful, unhappy, scared.... etc  so liberalism is the cause, timeline before liberalism and after shows it pretty clear.

Edited August 23, 2019 by aztek

[Gunn]

16 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats just pure virtue signaling. Thats cool and scores points with the gun crowd and all that jazz, it's also just absurdly unhelpful to anyones goals, including your own. 

Naw, no score required, just calm rational common sense. And only unhelpful to those who rather not deal with a reflected truth because of their emotional state of mind and rather scapegoat. Goals? I don't ever recall telling you what my goals were.

Quote

 

Oh come on man if you want to go that route carry the thought process out just a little further.

Action causes reaction huh? So action like making high capacity weapons easily available? And reaction like human getting his hands on that weapon and murdering alot of innocent people?

 

Still need the human element with a functional brain to operate a inanimate object. But hey, you know what? When guns develop their own functional brain/AI and shoot innocent people on their own, then your argument becomes logical and makes sense. But right now, the inanimate object blame game is inane, its just like some people blaming video games for mass shootings.

Quote

 

See that argument doesnt work with me because its individuals killing themselves. Hell im for legalizing all drugs for that very reason.

No stop trying to muddy the waters with distractions. We're talking about murder and terrorism being abetted in part by the ease of access to high capacity weapons.

 

And? So? Lol. Dude, we had an assault weapons ban for 10 years, 1994 to 2004, and there were still mass shootings during that time, right? And that law was definitely passed to prevent the ease of access to high capacity weapons, right? We've already been down that road with that old totalitarian BS argument. It doesn't/didn't work, if that's where you are eventually going with your point.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Gunn

[+and-then]

9 minutes ago, Gunn said:

if that's where you are eventually going with your point.

His problem is that people simply don't believe this step will be the last.  If THIS doesn't work, well, maybe we'll try THAT and THEN this OTHER until the guns are mostly gone and with them the ability to resist effectively.  Ain't gonna happen before the Millennials are old.

[+Desertrat56]

There is a good example of letting the law be run by people turning each other in and because we have social media it could be run completely by clicks on like or dislike.  Seth McFarland's show explores a lot of the issues we face like the original Star Trek show did.  I don't remember episode names but several of his come to mind when I read the posts in this thread.  It is the sign of a good writer to take what is going on currently and extrapolate how that can play out.  The Handmaids Tale was like that too.  Margaret Atwood saw something that might go off the rails and wrote a what if.. story about it.  We need these examples to keep ourselves in check.

[aztek]

not sure how it works in other states but in ny

Quote

 

This bill was dubbed as the ‘red flag’ legislation, and it allows law enforcement officers, family members, district attorneys, and school officials request confiscation of firearms if they feel a person is a threat to themselves and others. 

ERPO will prohibit high-risk people who might hurt themselves or others to own firearms, to purchase weapons and to give up their procession of weapons.  

A petitioner will need to file a petition to start a case in Supreme Court, and a judge will determine whether or not to grant a temporary ERPO on the same day, according to NBC. 

From there, an individual will receive a hearing date from a judge to determine if a final ERPO will be filed. 

 

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

5 hours ago, and then said:

Will it?  Look at the past 3 years and the media circus around Russian conspiracy.  I don't mean to derail and I'll leave it at that but this is another manifestation of the corrosive nature of our politics.  We are losing our respect, nationally and culturally, for abiding voluntarily with the law.

That said, I would have no problem with a legal mechanism for family members or friends to use to report someone who is behaving erratically and who has access to firearms.  It raises an interesting issue though.  If citizen A is reported to be a danger and law enforcement take him/her in for questioning, does that mean the government seize every weapon in the home they reside in?  What if, as in the case of the evil piece of work in Newtown, CT, none of the guns were his?  Can the government seize the property of someone who has not shown themselves to be behaving as a danger to the public?

If the answer to that is yes then our 4th Amendment freedoms go away like thistle down on a breeze.  Rights that are voluntarily surrendered don't ever get returned. 

We are going to have political pressure to "do SOMETHING" because people use scary looking long semi-auto guns to express their rage in a public spectacle.  The truth is that rifles are used to murder fewer people than hammers or knives.  This is fact, not hyperbole.  I would much rather live in a nation where people are held accountable for their own actions than one where a faceless government functionary tells me how to live "for my own good" and for the "safety of the children".  

This is about RIGHTS.  We are fast approaching a time when Americans are going to have to decide where they stand on freedom and what price it is worth to them.

The most important thing right now is how to stop the mass shootings. How do you suggest to do that?

[Grim Reaper 6]

5 hours ago, and then said:

Will it?  Look at the past 3 years and the media circus around Russian conspiracy.  I don't mean to derail and I'll leave it at that but this is another manifestation of the corrosive nature of our politics.  We are losing our respect, nationally and culturally, for abiding voluntarily with the law.

That said, I would have no problem with a legal mechanism for family members or friends to use to report someone who is behaving erratically and who has access to firearms.  It raises an interesting issue though.  If citizen A is reported to be a danger and law enforcement take him/her in for questioning, does that mean the government seize every weapon in the home they reside in?  What if, as in the case of the evil piece of work in Newtown, CT, none of the guns were his?  Can the government seize the property of someone who has not shown themselves to be behaving as a danger to the public?

If the answer to that is yes then our 4th Amendment freedoms go away like thistle down on a breeze.  Rights that are voluntarily surrendered don't ever get returned. 

We are going to have political pressure to "do SOMETHING" because people use scary looking long semi-auto guns to express their rage in a public spectacle.  The truth is that rifles are used to murder fewer people than hammers or knives.  This is fact, not hyperbole.  I would much rather live in a nation where people are held accountable for their own actions than one where a faceless government functionary tells me how to live "for my own good" and for the "safety of the children".  

This is about RIGHTS.  We are fast approaching a time when Americans are going to have to decide where they stand on freedom and what price it is worth to them.

The political pressure to do something is because so many people are being killed in senseless mass shootings. Guns are not the problem it's people who have serious mental issues. While you say that rifles kill less people than hammers or knives, I won't argue with that. However, hammers and knives are not used in mass killings correct me if I am wrong?  Americans are becoming afraid to go to crowded public places, kids are afraid to go to school because no one knows where a mass shooting will occur next.

What do you suggest we do to identify the crazies before they act.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Manwon Lender

[Gunn]

1 hour ago, and then said:

His problem is that people simply don't believe this step will be the last.  If THIS doesn't work, well, maybe we'll try THAT and THEN this OTHER until the guns are mostly gone and with them the ability to resist effectively.  Ain't gonna happen before the Millennials are old.

I don't think it's gonna happen even when they reach their senior years, because of the current advancements in gun technology now and future advancements. I'm not saying there will be laser/phaser handguns or rifles, but we all know how somebody at some point eventually develops something similar to what has been read in books or seen in the movies. So semi-autos will probably be old tech in the future and will be less threatening and worrisome like muskets are now. Just look at these advance guns they developed now;

Army might have found its new rifle in Colorado Springs garage

The 16 most high-tech guns in the world

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

There is a good example of letting the law be run by people turning each other in and because we have social media it could be run completely by clicks on like or dislike.  Seth McFarland's show explores a lot of the issues we face like the original Star Trek show did.  I don't remember episode names but several of his come to mind when I read the posts in this thread.  It is the sign of a good writer to take what is going on currently and extrapolate how that can play out.  The Handmaids Tale was like that too.  Margaret Atwood saw something that might go off the rails and wrote a what if.. story about it.  We need these examples to keep ourselves in check.

Yeah I think I know the episode you are talking about -  The Orville; S1 E7 Majority Rule.

Saw it on HULU about a month ago. That was interesting, but crazy scary at the same time.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

The most important thing right now is how to stop the mass shootings. How do you suggest to do that?

I challenge the emotional response to these criminal acts.  The numbers of dead and maimed are terrible and we should all be trying to come up with community-based solutions where individuals from both sides of the spectrum can come to some kind of a agreement but the numbers of dead are statistically small and are not something that should drive the government to take away the rights of law-abiding citizens.

If, God forbid, a family member of mine was killed senselessly by some maniac or evil SOB, my rage would be against that person first, then against anyone that actively helped them murder.  I would not demand that my neighbors give up THEIR rights due to HIS actions.  

As to stopping the mass shootings, nothing is going to do that except creating a police state with the military in control.  The ironic aspect of all this madness is that most of these manifestations of lawless rage against strangers can be traced to laws on the books not being enforced.  Lawlessness is  growing because we do not want to be told what to do by ANYONE.  The sad irony will be obvious when a government finally gains the power to use crushing penalties against people for crimes far less serious than these are today.

If someone takes a life, no matter how they do it, if they are witnessed in the act by 2 or more people then they should be executed publicly and swiftly.  If that sounds brutal and heartless, stop a moment and think how it compares to that gunman spraying death at a crowd of helpless strangers. 

[+and-then]

On 8/15/2019 at 10:39 PM, Manwon Lender said:

part of the problem is no one appears to be doing anything to comfort the American people, it's just more politics

Do you believe it is the government's role to "comfort" citizens?  Since when did adult human beings need to be coddled like children?  What about the choices we make corporately, as U.S. citizens, that have led us all to this place of madness?  Are we completely absolved of all guilt because we didn't pull the trigger?  My point is that America has made the bed we are in now and pointing the finger of blame at one group above all others is unjust.  These repeated slaughter rituals are just a reflection of where the national soul is today.  People in my part of the country aren't cowering in fear of going about our daily lives.  Most of us are beginning to reconnect with the strangers in our midst.  150 years ago down here there was a culture that demanded honor be defended.  People didn't go around running their mouths and impugning the character of strangers or neighbors because they knew that if they got called out publicly they might well die for the offense.  Again, before you state that such actions are barbaric or overly brutal, think about where our "civilized" treatment of everyone, regardless of how destructive to society their views might be, has taken us.  There will ALWAYS be an accounting.  The longer it is delayed the worse it tends to be.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

What do you suggest we do to identify the crazies before they act.

First, I think you are mistaken about the intensity of fear over this issue around the country.  Some people may obsess over it but most people here are either casual or fatalistic about the odds.  The numbers, no matter how emotionally charged the events may be, are still negligible in comparison to car crashes, medical mistakes and so on.  

Second, I think we are in a better position to identify unbalanced people today they we ever were in the past.  That type of personality often likes to telegraph their intentions publicly in an "anonymous" (yeah, right) environment.  I believe the social media platform geeks could create apolitical algorithms to screen for many of those who are so far into their disease that they have become less careful with their plans and ideas.

The main issue is that we aren't having a lot of reasons to trust the guys who make those algorithms to be apolitical.  Red Flag laws WILL be abused and if the government, local or federal go too far and use it against "undesirables"  then it will cause far worse problems than the mass shootings today.  But, some measure (s) should be sought that we can mostly agree on.  I've often heard death penalty opponents say - "is it worth the life of a single innocent man" to remove the killers from our midst?  I say the same about government crushing the rights of people who have not committed a crime and who have not shown true probable cause to be detained and have their property seized.  

[Grim Reaper 6]

5 minutes ago, and then said:

First, I think you are mistaken about the intensity of fear over this issue around the country.  Some people may obsess over it but most people here are either casual or fatalistic about the odds.  The numbers, no matter how emotionally charged the events may be, are still negligible in comparison to car crashes, medical mistakes and so on.  

Second, I think we are in a better position to identify unbalanced people today they we ever were in the past.  That type of personality often likes to telegraph their intentions publicly in an "anonymous" (yeah, right) environment.  I believe the social media platform geeks could create apolitical algorithms to screen for many of those who are so far into their disease that they have become less careful with their plans and ideas.

The main issue is that we aren't having a lot of reasons to trust the guys who make those algorithms to be apolitical.  Red Flag laws WILL be abused and if the government, local or federal go too far and use it against "undesirables"  then it will cause far worse problems than the mass shootings today.  But, some measure (s) should be sought that we can mostly agree on.  I've often heard death penalty opponents say - "is it worth the life of a single innocent man" to remove the killers from our midst?  I say the same about government crushing the rights of people who have not committed a crime and who have not shown true probable cause to be detained and have their property seized.  

You are comparing Accident statistics with mass murder these do not compare in any way. The CIA / FBI has algorithms to search by entering key words, That is why their have been so many arrests lately of people who are jokingly or seriously making threats. I agree Red Flag laws can be abused, but that doesn't mean they will be or to what extent. what other way can we stop mass killers before they act?

But this is only a temporary way to catch some of these people, it will not stop them completely. Some will stop openly using social media to vent their anger.  In situations like this some people will be caught that are not guilty. But in a larger scope the needs of the many out weight the needs of the few or the one. 

I clearly understand you are more concerned about civil rights than the killings themselves. You are not alone their are many here and throughout the country who would agree with you. I also don't want our civil rights taken away, but I think there must be some give and take here.

I also understand that people in your neck of woods are not effected by any fear caused by these Shootings. Well that's wonderful, but many people nation wide are affected. Now I am not one of them, I just pay more attention to my surroundings. But the politicians are now afraid of losing votes, and all the recent arrests prove that. I don't know where it will lead only time will tell. But one thing that's a fact when votes are threatened the Government will act, the laws are coming it best to face that fact.

[Grim Reaper 6]

58 minutes ago, and then said:

Do you believe it is the government's role to "comfort" citizens?  Since when did adult human beings need to be coddled like children?  What about the choices we make corporately, as U.S. citizens, that have led us all to this place of madness?  Are we completely absolved of all guilt because we didn't pull the trigger?  My point is that America has made the bed we are in now and pointing the finger of blame at one group above all others is unjust.  These repeated slaughter rituals are just a reflection of where the national soul is today.  People in my part of the country aren't cowering in fear of going about our daily lives.  Most of us are beginning to reconnect with the strangers in our midst.  150 years ago down here there was a culture that demanded honor be defended.  People didn't go around running their mouths and impugning the character of strangers or neighbors because they knew that if they got called out publicly they might well die for the offense.  Again, before you state that such actions are barbaric or overly brutal, think about where our "civilized" treatment of everyone, regardless of how destructive to society their views might be, has taken us.  There will ALWAYS be an accounting.  The longer it is delayed the worse it tends to be.

No I beleive it's the Governments number one job to protect it's people. Now your equating Corporate choices made by Americans that caused this problem? What are those choices?

How has America made its bed?

What happened where you live 150 years ago has nothing to do with today.  

You can sugar coat this issue anyway you chose too, but like you said there will always be an accounting. With this situation it's long over due.

[aztek]

On 8/23/2019 at 9:58 PM, Manwon Lender said:

No I beleive it's the Governments number one job to protect it's people. Now your equating Corporate choices made by Americans that caused this problem? What are those choices?

How has America made its bed?

What happened where you live 150 years ago has nothing to do with today.  

You can sugar coat this issue anyway you chose too, but like you said there will always be an accounting. With this situation it's long over due.

from almost every post of yours it is clear that you believe gvmnt no 1 job is not to protect people but protect peoples feelings at the cost of other people's feelings. as well as freedom, and livelihood, 

Edited August 26, 2019 by aztek

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 hours ago, aztek said:

from almost every post of yours it is clear that you believe gvmnt no 1 job is not to protect people but protect peoples feelings at the cost of other people's feelings. as well as freedom, and livelihood, 

Thanks for your enlightening take on things, if you go back and read my posts it clear. It is Governments  #1 responsibility to protects its people. Please don't take things out of context, by injecting your political views into everything.

[MissJatti]

American civilians acting god. 

[aztek]

15 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Thanks for your enlightening take on things, if you go back and read my posts it clear. It is Governments  #1 responsibility to protects its people. Please don't take things out of context, by injecting your political views into everything.

lmao, of course i will inject politics since it is a political section, and i have read your posts, and i stand by my opinion.

[Grim Reaper 6]

7 hours ago, aztek said:

lmao, of course i will inject politics since it is a political section, and i have read your posts, and i stand by my opinion.

Your welcome to it.

[acidhead]

911 imo

It changed everything

Kids today have no idea.

They were born into it

[Tatetopa]

On 8/23/2019 at 5:48 PM, and then said:

Do you believe it is the government's role to "comfort" citizens?  Since when did adult human beings need to be coddled like children? 

Since the time when people became obsessively terrified that their government was plotting to take their guns, and since the time these folks came to believe freedom and resistance was dependent on a military style weapon.

One can barricade himself in his house with a half dozen weapons and the SWAT team will withdraw and send in the armored bomb disposal robot  with a taser and tear gas in one arm and a Gatling gun in the other.  In another 10 years, you won't even see whats coming at you.

The way to be free and stay free is to control the government.  Guns don't resist, humans resist.