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Manwon Lender

What's causing the mass shootings in the USA

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and then

Our youth appear to be emotionally dead in many ways.  This plague stems from soul-sickness, not gun availability.  Taking guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens will cause even MORE of these mass casualty events.

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susieice

Both of my Senators said on the news this morning that they will support stronger background checks and assault weapon legislation but they both also said it not likely to stop mass shootings. They hope it will lessen them. One is Republican and one is Democrat. 

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ellapenella
1 hour ago, aztek said:

i can tell who commits such shootings, in vast majority of cases young kids in their 20s, or even younger, with antisocial behavior, and who have mental issues,  that are known before.  their SM pages are red flags times 10

The Ohio's  social media and past was/is a huge red flag and from  I've read &  heard;when he was 17 he was suspended from school for a list he had wrote in it revealed  evil things he wanted to do to certain students. 

I heard that the  Texas shooters' dad ran a Mental facility in Texas  I think it's called DAPA . 

It was crazy/ sick how he  was geared up as if he was at a  shooting range.

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ellapenella
8 minutes ago, and then said:

Our youth appear to be emotionally dead in many ways.  This plague stems from soul-sickness, not gun availability.  Taking guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens will cause even MORE of these mass casualty events.

I don't think it's just the youth that are emotionally dead after seeing grown adults  rejoicing /celebrating  infanticide. 

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ellapenella
9 minutes ago, susieice said:

Both of my Senators said on the news this morning that they will support stronger background checks and assault weapon legislation but they both also said it not likely to stop mass shootings. They hope it will lessen them. One is Republican and one is Democrat. 

I don't know where you're from but after the Texas incident ANTIFA is not allowed there. I sort of wondered if these were dry runs from them because they openly stated they were going to do acts that were violent.

Edited by Ellapennella

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susieice
8 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

I don't know where you're from but after the Texas incident ANTIFA is not allowed there. I sort of wondered if these were dry runs from them because they openly stated they were going to do acts that were violent.

Someone else mentioned that. This shooter was 8chan which has now been taken offline because it's supporters pulled out. Antifa said they were going there on September 1. I don't know if they will or not. They were going after ICE and border patrol.

I'm from Pennsylvania.

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Stubbly_Dooright
18 minutes ago, and then said:

Our youth appear to be emotionally dead in many ways.  This plague stems from soul-sickness, not gun availability.  Taking guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens will cause even MORE of these mass casualty events.

If you could for me, could you elaborate on this? Especially, on the ‘soul-sickness’ part. What do you mean exactly, by soul-sickness? 

Plus, is it all youth? And, how is that categorized and sourced to show that? (I also have the post from someone else posted about adults too, that I’m reflecting on) Working in retail, I see varying aspects of youth’s personalities, and I get different outlooks of how they seem to be. And, that is if, the term soul-sickness can be defined more. To me, it almost seems like it’s discussing apathy, (if I’m correct in assuming this.) 

 

To me, I am always wondering about this, and I can fully understand the OP’s reflections and questions on this. I think, it is hard to really pinpoint this, (though my thoughts on this could go in a certain direction) but, I think some of the posts that show links and thoughts, I think are good examples in my thoughts. 

Frankly, if there is also another thing that is probably an example, I would think pressure. With more access to social and media outlets, and to access one’s own thoughts and wishes, I think there is more pressure towards everyone to be something, that they are probably not. And with technology today, that makes situations and tasks quicker, there is no time to actually think and relax. It’s next, next, next, and getting behind seems to not be accepted. (This, of course, stemming from my own observations.) 

 

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Raptor Witness

Clearly a serious case for the FBI to investigate, using their lone wolf determination unit.  Oh wait, they don't have one.  There are simply too many to keep up with.  

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ellapenella
4 minutes ago, susieice said:

Someone else mentioned that. This shooter was 8chan which has now been taken offline because it's supporters pulled out. Antifa said they were going there on September 1. I don't know if they will or not. They were going after ICE and border patrol.

I'm from Pennsylvania.

The 1st till the 10th. They said something about border states. You know , those  such who would like to enforce the law .  I recall  watching them a while ago on a video in which they were stating that they had a plan to attack the country in such manner as what is happening.

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susieice
1 minute ago, Ellapennella said:

The 1st till the 10th. They said something about border states. You know , those  such who would like to enforce the law .  I recall  watching them a while ago on a video in which they were stating that they had a plan to attack the country in such manner as what is happening.

I wouldn't doubt if they do but this shooter was 8chan and talking supremist rhetoric.

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ellapenella
7 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

If you could for me, could you elaborate on this? Especially, on the ‘soul-sickness’ part. What do you mean exactly, by soul-sickness? 

 

 

I realize you were asking and then but you can look it up on line and get all kinds are information  lots of links ... 

 

 

 adjective
 

Definition of soul-sick

 

: spiritually ill : very dejected or depressed

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soul-sick

 

 

 

 

Abstract

“Soul sickness,” or demoralization, is characterized by feelings of hopelessness and helplessness and a perceived sense of incompetence. This condition typically involves vague, unexplained physical symptoms. Soul sickness can be efficiently diagnosed by asking patients a series of questions about their personal lives. Patients with this condition require a restoration of their morale and hope. Physicians can assist patients in regaining hope by encouraging them to focus on new, adaptive behaviors. As osteopathic physicians, we can use our skills in osteopathic manipulative treatment to manage the demoralization-related physical symptoms of patients.

 

Soul sickness” is a diagnosis that one will not find described in medical textbooks. Nevertheless, I encounter this condition many times a day among patients in the family practice where I work. In my experience, patients with what I refer to as soul sickness typically have vague, unexplained symptoms, such as body pains, dizziness, fatigue, headaches, and insomnia (Figure). They may have been diagnosed as having such conditions as chronic fatigue syndrome, chronic Lyme disease, chronic pain syndrome, fibromyalgia, migraine headache, multiple chemical sensitivity syndrome, or any of a host of emerging new diagnoses.

https://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2094068

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RoofGardener
3 minutes ago, susieice said:

I wouldn't doubt if they do but this shooter was 8chan and talking supremist rhetoric.

Was he ? All the news websites are using language like "... believed to be linked with..." ? The article on 8chan was uploaded 20 minutes before the shooting, but I don't think it mentioned El Paso in particular ? 

The shooter lived in Allen, Texas. That is almost a 10-hour drive to El Paso. That would mean that if he posted that thread, then he did the entire thing from his mobile phone just as he entered El Paso. The "manifesto" was four pages long. That seems like an awful lot to input by a mobile phone ? 

In addition, the manifesto doesn't mention El Paso at all... merely "Texas". 

I dunno folks... is there ANY real evidence tying this 'manifesto' to the actual shooter ? 

 

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RoofGardener

Just a passing thought... a large amount of the "mainstream" media are trying to blame President Trump for the El Paso shooting. Notice, however, that they are VERY quiet about the Dayton, Ohio shooter ? 

Could that be anything to do with the fact that he was a left-wing Elizabeth Warren supporter ? :D 

Surely not ? :P 

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aztek

never let a crisis go to waste,  the digital footprint can be fabricated any time, gvmnt is good at it.  

Edited by aztek
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South Alabam
24 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Just a passing thought... a large amount of the "mainstream" media are trying to blame President Trump for the El Paso shooting. Notice, however, that they are VERY quiet about the Dayton, Ohio shooter ? 

Could that be anything to do with the fact that he was a left-wing Elizabeth Warren supporter ? :D 

Surely not ? :P 

Absolutely. They like making Trump look bad at every turn. For them to make one of their own look bad rarely happens.

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Stubbly_Dooright
7 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:
23 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

If you could for me, could you elaborate on this? Especially, on the ‘soul-sickness’ part. What do you mean exactly, by soul-sickness? 

 

 

I realize you were asking and then but you can look it up on line and get all kinds are information  lots of links ... 

 

 

 adjective
 

Definition of soul-sick

 

: spiritually ill : very dejected or depressed

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soul-sick

 

 

 

 

Abstract

“Soul sickness,” or demoralization, is characterized by feelings of hopelessness and helplessness and a perceived sense of incompetence. This condition typically involves vague, unexplained physical symptoms. Soul sickness can be efficiently diagnosed by asking patients a series of questions about their personal lives. Patients with this condition require a restoration of their morale and hope. Physicians can assist patients in regaining hope by encouraging them to focus on new, adaptive behaviors. As osteopathic physicians, we can use our skills in osteopathic manipulative treatment to manage the demoralization-related physical symptoms of patients.

 

Soul sickness” is a diagnosis that one will not find described in medical textbooks. Nevertheless, I encounter this condition many times a day among patients in the family practice where I work. In my experience, patients with what I refer to as soul sickness typically have vague, unexplained symptoms, such as body pains, dizziness, fatigue, headaches, and insomnia (Figure). They may have been diagnosed as having such conditions as chronic fatigue syndrome, chronic Lyme disease, chronic pain syndrome, fibromyalgia, migraine headache, multiple chemical sensitivity syndrome, or any of a host of emerging new diagnoses.

https://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2094068

Yes, I was asking @and then because I was wondering at his outlook to that. After that, I like to think where we can go from there. I consider that term to have multiple definitions. I feel, that the term of ‘the soul’ to have many definitions as well, and that there seems to me to have different outlooks as to how the ‘soul’ is perceived as existing or not. 

And also, if there was a religious definition attached to it or not. 

But alas, there is a thankfulness to your posting of links and definition to it. And it’s outlook of the physical thought of depression and so forth. If there is depression and such, can that just be mentioned? Your link itself: 

Quote

Definition of soul-sick

spiritually ill very dejected or depressed   

That’s it? Can we define ‘spiritually’ as a physical aspect? Even the page your link has, doesn’t show much more. I even went to dictionary.com and got This.

Doesn’t even show a direct definition. 

Here is how or why I’m :huh: on this. What exactly is being described as ‘soul-sickness’ and is this a particular actual defining thing, and is this something that we do see and can do something about? 

Is labeling physical systems as also ‘soul-sickness’ correct? 

I look at this Site  for some definition and understanding of it. 

Quote
Soul sickness” is a diagnosis that one will not find described in medical textbooks. Nevertheless, I encounter this condition many times a day among patients in the family practice where I work. In my experience, patients with what I refer to as soul sickness typically have vague, unexplained symptoms, such as body pains, dizziness, fatigue, headaches, and insomnia (Figure). They may have been diagnosed as having such conditions as chronic fatigue syndrome, chronic Lyme disease, chronic pain syndrome, fibromyalgia, migraine headache, multiple chemical sensitivity syndrome, or any of a host of emerging new diagnoses. 

I have found that the origin of soul sickness is a patient's inability to deal with internal or external stress. The internal stress may be borne of emotional, physical, or sexual abuse. The external stress may arise from insufficient coping skills for dealing with the problems and suffering that life brings almost everyone. Rather than transcending the suffering, patients with soul sickness have “checked out” of life. They no longer feel that they are competent to live productive lives and to meet the expectations of people close to them.

I think, in my feeling, there shouldn’t be a jumping to conclusion of religion in this and whether the need for it or not, being discussed. Now, if I’m assuming this, (based on what you’re saying, and what I think @and then is probably saying ((if that is what I assume) and what I have found) this is about morale. (Not morals.) 

And, this goes back to what I said in reply to his posts, I don’t think all of the youth have morale problems. (And that depends on how they are raised, which in this country is as different and vast and I think, cannot be pin pointed correctly as having one main difference to it or not.)

I also wonder at the sources this information is coming from. Or at the least, I’m wondering where @and then is getting this outlook. Something I can trust with, as much I trust with my outlook on it. 

 

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Stubbly_Dooright

Whether there is a morale 'situation' or other things listed. I think, there are many, (like what some posted) and I really think we're going to have a big problem narrowing it down. One thing I see, is still a reluctance to really, and I mean, really do something to deal with it. As well as, to look at it honestly and objectively. 

I work in retail, and even though it's a thought that it can happen anytime at my place of employment, (or where I am on my days off) I don't give it as much thought as to really happening as it did in other places. And of course, naturally, those in those areas affected by it, more than likely didn't have much thought to it as well. In the various jobs I have had in the last decade, there are the things that I view that talks about how to respond during shootings and such. One thought I tend to have when viewing them, will I actually have the emotional state to do them, or end up doing the opposite. I think, it's hard to really fathom. But yet, I see it happening, and I wonder how and what the people there are fathoming this? It's hard to imagine. 

Another thought I have, is how we have to have things to view about shootings, and how frequent we have them to come to this. And then, I will have the one thought, 'how do we stop them'? And, I don't have the answer. I think, (at least) we need to work on trying to get an answer. 

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susieice
4 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

That's the Ohio shooter. I posted a link like that in the thread about Ohio. 

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

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susieice
4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Was he ? All the news websites are using language like "... believed to be linked with..." ? The article on 8chan was uploaded 20 minutes before the shooting, but I don't think it mentioned El Paso in particular ? 

The shooter lived in Allen, Texas. That is almost a 10-hour drive to El Paso. That would mean that if he posted that thread, then he did the entire thing from his mobile phone just as he entered El Paso. The "manifesto" was four pages long. That seems like an awful lot to input by a mobile phone ? 

In addition, the manifesto doesn't mention El Paso at all... merely "Texas". 

I dunno folks... is there ANY real evidence tying this 'manifesto' to the actual shooter ? 

 

As far as I know, no. The last I heard the FBI was investigating to see if this manifesto is a hoax or not. 

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Inversion5
10 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

What has changed in America, that creates an environment where people conduct mass killings. I don't think it's the Guns, the country since it inception has always had armed civilians. There has always been mental illness, it gos back as far as the country itself. Could it be disparate, could people have come to a point where they can no longer live the American dream or have people lost faith in the tenons of our country. So what has been the major change that makes people want to harm others in such horrific ways. There has to be a way to stop all this violents, I personally do not think our Government is doing enough to solve this problem, truth be know I don't even know if they can. But something must be done our people should not be afraid to go out and live their lives, and that is what it is coming too.

I would appreciate any and all your thoughts on this subject

Well, I think we should first be weary on using the term "mental illness." Mental implies "thoughts" and "illness" implies that the thoughts are diseased; something like cancer. But thoughts and disease are two different things from each other. It's a contradiction, a fallacy. Now if the person had cancer or were doing meth or something along those lines, then they are simply drugged or biologically screwed where their self-control could become allusive. We should not sentence someone to death that is known to be drugged or actually sick if their original state of mind/intention was never to harm another person. So as difficult as it may seem, we have to exam the person's ENTIRE life to determine the origin of the problem AND listen to them without interruption (which could take some time depending on the complexity of the person's life). Not cherry pick and hang on an ideology. That is as dangerous as the person killing.

So I think we need to steer away from "mental illness" and see this as "emotionally unstable", at first, especially if the person is not on drugs or having a biological issue. Second, indoctrination needs to be consider, as people are now saying these shootings are "MAGA"/Trump related, but even then, you can pluck that person out of their "indoctrination" and put them in another healthy promoting environment and their mood will most likely change. But again, we have to see when the indoctrination started. If it started super young, then we need to consider locking them up indefinitely (time frame should pend on the outlook of rehabilitation). If the indoctrination started later, it is more emotional than neurologically hardwired. Mass shootings are "general population killings", from what I see. They do not have a specific hatred towards an individual, irregardless of hating a specific group. They are still generalizing individuals (a black person may believe they are white - saw that on Jerry Springer once). These shooters most likely are in a "wavy state of mind." Something must of triggered it, and perhaps someone, intentionally.

Looking on how the brain is structured, we have the "reptilian brain" that overcomes (in almost all cases) the cognitive (more newly developed) part of the human brain. Other animals (we still are/originate from the animal kingdom) have no problem just shredding another creature to pieces in a split second over the simplest things, like food. Humans take a bit more time. They go through a lot of thoughts to determine the best avenue to take. Some think fast, others slow, and so either they die or live based on such thought processes. Not well cognitive functioning people (majority uneducated - implying they still can learn) that mass shoot seem to have their reptilian brain tap into their cognitive function and steer them towards threats with seemingly no control. They are dangerous. But it does not mean they can not change before they pull the trigger and after, once the threat(s) are neutralized through thoughts, or bullets:unsure2:, apparently. They are making sure they or their loved ones (or perhaps future loved ones) survive in their environment, seemingly through misguided principles.  

So, it is really how we treat each other, individually. These people's issues could be at first unrelated to their indoctrination or it could be what temporary trauma they experienced before their indoctrination, and we just need better educated people in the government to implement policies that are steered towards more emotionally stable acts, not one for corporate profit. Most of these US senators and represenatives are old and uneducated, as far as modern standards (2010 - 2020) and need to be replaced quickly; unless they are willing to go back to school or register into a severe continuous education program to at least upgrade their cognitive abilities. I mean, these old people are still arguing about climate change :rofl:. The opponents to climate change are not even providing a substantive scientific data bearing alternative, and some people still think such a talking point is a well-informed approach :blink:.

We are failing each other.

Edited by Inversion5

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aztek
9 minutes ago, Inversion5 said:

Well, I think we should first be weary on using the term "mental illness." Mental implies "thoughts" and "illness" implies that the thoughts are diseased; something like cancer. But thoughts and disease are two different things from each other. It's a contradiction, a fallacy. Now if the person had cancer or were doing meth or something along those lines, then they are simply drugged or biologically screwed where their self-control could become allusive. We should not sentence someone to death that is known to be drugged or actually sick if their original state of mind/intention was never to harm another person. So as difficult as it may seem, we have to exam the person's ENTIRE life to determine the origin of the problem AND listen to them without interruption (which could take some time depending on the complexity of the person's life). Not cherry pick and hang on an ideology. That is as dangerous as the person killing.

So I think we need to steer away from "mental illness" and see this as "emotionally unstable", at first, especially if the person is not on drugs or having a biological issue. Second, indoctrination needs to be consider, as people are now saying these shootings are "MAGA"/Trump related, but even then, you can pluck that person out of their "indoctrination" and put them in another healthy promoting environment and their mood will most likely change. But again, we have to see when the indoctrination started. If it started super young, then we need to consider locking them up indefinitely (time frame should pend on the outlook of rehabilitation). If the indoctrination started later, it is more emotional than neurologically hardwired. Mass shootings are "general population killings", from what I see. They do not have a specific hatred towards an individual, irregardless of hating a specific group. They are still generalizing individuals (a black person may believe they are white - saw thought on Jerry Springer once). These shooters most likely are in a "wavy state of mind." Something must of triggered it, and perhaps someone, intentionally.

Looking on how the brain is structured, we have the "reptilian brain" that overcomes (in almost all cases) the cognitive (more newly developed) part of the human brain. Other animals (we still are/originate from the animal kingdom) have no problem just shredding another creature to pieces in a split second over the simplest things, like food. Humans take a bit more time. They go through a lot of thoughts to determine the best avenue to take. Some think fast, others slow, and so either they die or live based on such thought processes. Not well cognitive functioning people (majority uneducated - implying they still can learn) that mass shoot seem to have their reptilian brain tap into their cognitive function and steer them towards threats with seemingly no control. They are dangerous. But it does not mean they can not change before they pull the trigger and after, once the threat(s) are neutralized through thoughts, or bullets:unsure2:, apparently. They are making sure they or their loved ones (or perhaps future loved ones) survive in their environment, seemingly through misguided principles.  

So, it is really how we treat each other, individually. These people's issues could be at first unrelated to their indoctrination or it could be what temporary trauma they experienced before their indoctrination, and we just need better educated people in the government to implement policies that are steered towards more emotionally stable acts, not one for corporate profit. Most of these US senators and represenatives are old and uneducated, as far as modern standards (2010 - 2020) and need to be replaced quickly; unless they are willing to go back to school or register into a severe continuous education program to at least upgrade their cognitive abilities. I mean, these old people are still arguing about climate change :rofl:. The opponents to climate change are not even providing a substantive scientific data bearing alternative, and people think such talking points are a well-informed approach :blink:.

We are failing each other.

so if you do not agree with their opinion you want to pluck that person and treat him until you install opinion you agree with? ?   what about tolerating other opinions, what make you think it is those that wear red hats need to be put in different environment and change them? 

i see what you trying to do here, you criminalize, turn to illness other opinion, not gonna work buddy,  how about we do the same to lgbt, or liberal trump haters  lets pluck them into a new environment and change their opinion, cuz they are the ones screaming hate and doing hating

Edited by aztek
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Inversion5
10 minutes ago, aztek said:

so if you do not agree with their opinion you want to pluck that person and treat him until you install opinion you agree with? ?   what about tolerating other opinions, what make you think it is those that wear red hats need to be put in different environment and change them? 

i see what you trying to do here, you criminalize, turn to illness other opinion, not gonna work buddy,  how about we do the same to lgbt, or liberal trump haters  lets pluck them into a new environment and change their opinion

For 20,000+ posts, you suck at debating. You are erratic. So let me try to get this straight. So, "if I do not agree with their opinion"....

Okay, I am not opposing anyone's opinion, first of all. I was illustrating the human capacity to change. Hope that straightens it out for you. If not, come at me again, and we'll "dance."

Alright, so when I'm stating "indoctrination", I am viewing it in the terms of international policy. Like terrorism. So it implies that someone "indoctrinated" is taught to harm others, a specific group. If these shooters had a simple "opinion", then I can not imagine them gunning down people. Opinion can lead to indoctrination, but that is not what I'm talking about.

Edited by Inversion5
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aztek
3 minutes ago, Inversion5 said:

For 20,000+ posts, you suck at debating. You are erratic. So let me try to get this straight. So, "if I do not agree with their opinion"....

Okay, I am not opposing anyone's opinion, first of all. I was illustrating the human capacity to change. Hope that straightens it out for you. If not, come at me again, and we'll "dance."

nope, not at all.  lets dance then, show us how good of a debator you are, so far you seem on psychotic side, but lets see

Edited by aztek

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Inversion5
3 minutes ago, aztek said:

nope, not at all.  lets dance then, show us how good of a debator you are, so far you seem on psychotic side, but lets see

What is wrong with you? :rofl::rofl: That's right, I determined you are being erratic. And your response did not even highlight any of my talking points. So...

Edited by Inversion5
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