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Manwon Lender

What's causing the mass shootings in the USA

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aztek
3 minutes ago, Inversion5 said:

What is wrong with you? :rofl::rofl:

not a damn thing, 

so tell me why is it maga crowd that needs to change, not the other side?  cuz that is who you imply needs to change, so go ahead, the floor is yours.

oh and try to keep it 10 lines or less

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Inversion5
17 minutes ago, aztek said:

not a damn thing, 

so tell me why is it maga crowd that needs to change, not the other side?  cuz that is who you imply needs to change, so go ahead, the floor is yours

OH, OKAY, here we go! I get it now. Let me warm up. Give me a sec.

Erratic people, such as yourself, are overlooking the details, which tends to happen when people are emotionally charged. Your reptilian brain is overriding your cognitive process to some degree. Not your fault. I am stating that OTHERS are saying these ARE (I view it as COULD be) "maga crowd" related. I have no clue. BUT what I am also stating that IF it is maga crowd related, then it is simply the individual (the shooter) that is causing this. Not the maga crowd. BECAUSE we have to look at EVERYONE's individual life to determine what truly is the cause for their emotional instability. Are you with me yet? Let me know.

P.S. I like Trump. He is entertaining. I did not vote for him though. ^_^ And I think he does not know enough. But I still like him and I will defend our President (in my own fashion) if I do not see clarity within the attacks made towards him. And him being a liar... it's politics. It's the people that are at fault for following his lies. Again, it's all entertainment since there is really no control over it all, at the time being. I rather enjoy than be miserable, and do what I can to change the perspective. Just as a side note, I think ANY politician that does not directly address a question towards a policy question, should be removed from office and/or held criminally liable for any deaths or injuries resulting from such silence. Sorry, that last one was more for me than you.:D

Edited by Inversion5

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Gunn
36 minutes ago, Inversion5 said:

Well, I think we should first be weary on using the term "mental illness." Mental implies "thoughts" and "illness" implies that the thoughts are diseased; something like cancer. But thoughts and disease are two different things from each other. It's a contradiction, a fallacy. Now if the person had cancer or were doing meth or something along those lines, then they are simply drugged or biologically screwed where their self-control could become allusive. We should not sentence someone to death that is known to be drugged or actually sick if their original state of mind/intention was never to harm another person. So as difficult as it may seem, we have to exam the person's ENTIRE life to determine the origin of the problem AND listen to them without interruption (which could take some time depending on the complexity of the person's life). Not cherry pick and hang on an ideology. That is as dangerous as the person killing.

So I think we need to steer away from "mental illness" and see this as "emotionally unstable",

The thing is, people just don't go out and shoot that many people with out at least some kind of mental defect in their thought process. It's like their moral consciousnesses has been shut off, with no regard of the repercussions of their actions to human life. And it's like they turn into a predatory animal and all they want to do is kill, kill, kill. I have hard time believing there is not some kind of mental defect going on inside their brains.

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aztek
35 minutes ago, Inversion5 said:

OH, OKAY, here we go! I get it now. Let me warm up. Give me a sec.

Erratic people, such as yourself, are overlooking the details, which tends to happen when people are emotionally charged. Your reptilian brain is overriding your cognitive process to some degree. Not your fault. I am stating that OTHERS are saying these ARE (I view it as COULD be) "maga crowd" related. I have no clue. BUT what I am also stating that IF it is maga crowd related, then it is simply the individual (the shooter) that is causing this. Not the maga crowd. BECAUSE we have to look at EVERYONE's individual life to determine what truly is the cause for their emotional instability. Are you with me yet? Let me know.

P.S. I like Trump. He is entertaining. I did not vote for him though. ^_^ And I think he does not know enough. But I still like him and I will defend our President (in my own fashion) if I do not see clarity within the attacks made towards him. And him being a liar... it's politics. It's the people that are at fault for following his lies. Again, it's all entertainment since there is really no control over it all, at the time being. I rather enjoy than be miserable, and do what I can to change the perspective. Just as a side note, I think ANY politician that does not directly address a question towards a policy question, should be removed from office and/or held criminally liable for any deaths or injuries resulting from such silence. Sorry, that last one was more for me than you.:D

i stopped reading after "erratic people as yourself" , i have no desire to debate a psychotic person,  we have plenty of such here, it  really serves no purpose

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aztek
11 minutes ago, Gunn said:

The thing is, people just don't go out and shoot that many people with out at least some kind of mental defect in their thought process. It's like their moral consciousnesses has been shut off, with no regard of the repercussions of their actions to human life. And it's like they turn into a predatory animal and all they want to do is kill, kill, kill. I have hard time believing there is not some kind of mental defect going on inside their brains.

of course there is.  entire world calling it a mental health issue including doctors,  cuz it is.  just cuz someone on the internet says it is not, changes nothing

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Inversion5
19 minutes ago, aztek said:

...i have no desire to debate a psychotic person,  we have plenty of such here, it  really serves no purpose

Sorry, but you are obviously far from being a neurologist to be calling anyone such a technical term like that. Your ignorance just proves that 20,000+ posts mean nothing.

 

Edited by Inversion5
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'Walt' E. Kurtz

I dont know much about the mental health care in the US the way i get it is that you dont have a health care system that is open for everyone and that you need insurance. Could be one explination .

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aztek
1 minute ago, Inversion5 said:

Sorry, but you are obviously far from being a neurologist to be calling anyone such a technical term like that. Your ignorance just proves that 20,000+ posts mean nothing.

 

thank you for proving my point,

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Inversion5
5 minutes ago, aztek said:

thank you for proving my point,

Dude, you are strange. Do I know you or something? :rofl: Or do you know me? :unsure: Cause you sure do have a lot of emotion and not enough comprehension skills. Maybe cause you don't like to read my stuff, yet you comment on it. Which is strange on it's own.:blink:

You know what! I think your a bot. Maybe a Russian bot. So no need to continue. Silly bots. :su

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aztek
Just now, Impedancer said:

I dont know much about the mental health care in the US the way i get it is that you dont have a health care system that is open for everyone and that you need insurance. Could be one explination .

more likely than not it has nothing to do with it, if anything we have problems of over treating with ssri meds, so lack of insurance in some cases is not relevant here,  not to mention poor get medicaid, old have medicare,  if someone with no insurance gets into a hospital ,they are never denied treatment. and if you pretend you are illegal,  no  one will even send you a bill,  you can make up a name and get treated.  

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aztek
3 minutes ago, Inversion5 said:

Dude, you are strange. Do I know you or something? :rofl: Or do you know me? :unsure: Cause you sure do have a lot of emotion and not enough comprehension skills. Maybe cause you don't like to read my stuff, yet you comment on it. Which is strange on it's own.:blink:

i have no clue who you are, nor i care to find out more than i got from your posts,, thus on ignore you go,

Edited by aztek

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Tatetopa
15 minutes ago, Gunn said:

The thing is, people just don't go out and shoot that many people with out at least some kind of mental defect in their thought process. It's like their moral consciousnesses has been shut off, with no regard of the repercussions of their actions to human life. And it's like they turn into a predatory animal and all they want to do is kill, kill, kill. I have hard time believing there is not some kind of mental defect going on inside their brains.

What do you consider a mental  defect?  Is it a chemical or physical abnormality in the brain?  Some people do have that.

There is another cause just as prevalent though, it is fervent internal belief and surety that you are absolutely right in that belief.  You see examples of that all the time in the world. 

Do groups look for individuals with mental defects or  do they groom and train and constantly bombard with a single belief system to produce suicide bombers?

Hate and Heaven and doing God's will can be enormous forces for causing violence especially when they become an obsession. 

The trigger can be race or religion or political belief.  Even outrage at the injustice one thinks he suffers due to the existence of another group.  Incels come to mind who decide to take out the "Barbies" and the "Kens" because they feel left out.

The idea is not new.  Eric Hoffer wrote a book about it in 1951. The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements   partially about the nature of fanaticism.   Still applies today, even though he never heard of ISIS or Incels.

 

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Inversion5
3 minutes ago, aztek said:

i have no clue who you are, nor i care to find out more than i got from your posts,, thus on ignore you go,

:su

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aztek
7 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

What do you consider a mental  defect?  Is it a chemical or physical abnormality in the brain? 

my guess would be thinking of killing people you do not know for no apparent reason,   just for starters,

mental health is nothing but a consequence or physical health,  either chemical imbalance, or in some cases physical damage to the brain. could be something a person was born with, or messed up with medications\drugs, or physical damage.  there are myriads of ,mental disorders, not all of them make a person dangerous to that point.

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Tatetopa
Just now, aztek said:

my guess would be thinking of killing people you do not know for no apparent reason,   just for starters,

There is a reason whether it is apparent to outsiders or not for killing people you do not know.

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aztek
4 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

There is a reason whether it is apparent to outsiders or not for killing people you do not know.

yes, there is abviously a reason, for every shooter a different one,

obviously a walmart shooter who did not like immigrants had very different reason than a guy in ohio who was a democrat and a warren supporter, or a muslim guy who shot up gay club, all had their own reasons,

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Inversion5
54 minutes ago, aztek said:

my guess would be thinking of killing people you do not know for no apparent reason,   just for starters,

mental health is nothing but a consequence or physical health,  either chemical imbalance, or in some cases physical damage to the brain. could be something a person was born with, or messed up with medications\drugs, or physical damage.  

But the only way to really understand what is going on is to see neurological activity. The mental health system is infested with nothing but people that stare at you and THINK they understand things by peoples short lived body language and facial expressions and subjective perceptions of prior "evaluations." Anyone other than a neurologist are fooling themselves. Most doctors are ego driven all because they accomplished memorizing long words. A self deluding construct based on their own invention. Chemical imbalance does not outweigh strict thoughts. Even if the person is experience bipolar behavior for example, does not mean they are not thinking to themselves "geez, what the hell is wrong with me." This give rise to choice. Your perception is as good as a bot "dude." At least IF you are not a bot, you can relearn.

Oh, and the only way to know if someone has brain damage from birth or not is by a brain scan. If you have no brain scan, you can not definitely say something truly damaged because of one thing or another. And what is more funny if someone claims there is brain damage based on all subjective observations, but if it turns out a brain scan was done without them knowing, after the supposed cause, and it turned out nothing was damaged when they say it was, then these "doctors" can come off their high horse and concede to neurology as the true determining factor; in the sense of what the current person's true neurological activity is (i.e. healthy or not). What would be more fascination if we find someone that has half a brain of no neurological activity but the other half shows all the same activity as the nonactive side of the brain (from when it was once active), including its own type of brain activity (e.g. the half of brain acts like the entire brain under certain circumstances). You can't get that by staring at a person or taking their blood. What the future will hold....

Azteck, how can you laugh when you don't even comprehend the simplest of things I've stated and lash out without "properly aiming". Again, you are a strange one. We need to pass some true "for the people" legislation quickly. :lol:

Edited by Inversion5
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aztek

lamo, only licensed experienced auto mechanic can say you have a flat tire,  the rest are fooling themselves. lol

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Inversion5
Just now, aztek said:

lamo, only licensed experienced auto mechanic can say you have a flat tire,  the rest are fooling themselves. lol

*facepalm*

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Gunn
35 minutes ago, Impedancer said:

I dont know much about the mental health care in the US the way i get it is that you dont have a health care system that is open for everyone and that you need insurance. Could be one explination .

Yeah in some states today some low income families can't get medicaid from the government depending on their income level, but at the same time they can barely or really can't afford private insurance. And even a halfway decent mental health clinic with only therapists, will charge you for each out of pocket cash expense per visit and it's not always cheap. So you can imagine somebody with low income and mental health issues is not going spend money every week on a visit to the therapist, which defeats the purpose, when they have to put food on the table and pay bills. And they'd probably would rather spend what other little money, if they had any left, on themselves or their family.  It's all messed up, man, also there is a lot of hurdles and red tape you got to through to qualify for medicaid these days and that sometimes puts a lot people off and they just say - "F" it!.

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aztek

^^^ that is true as far as private clinics, practices go,  hospitals can not reject patients . but they are not as good in quality of care. thou not all private clinics offer better care some are complete sht.

i also see doctors treating kids with pills, when they have too much energy,  my neighbor has such kid, he would be just fine if they made him play sports,  yet they take him to psychiatrists, and he takes meds,  i told them that once, i offered to take their kid with my kids to a martial art school. to spend his energy, but they looked at me like i'm crazy,  sad to see a healthy kid be labeled sick and treated till he really gets sick.  my guess he has a very good insurance

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Robotic Jew
22 minutes ago, Gunn said:

Yeah in some states today some low income families can't get medicaid from the government depending on their income level, but at the same time they can barely or really can't afford private insurance. And even a halfway decent mental health clinic with only therapists, will charge you for each out of pocket cash expense per visit and it's not always cheap. So you can imagine somebody with low income and mental health issues is not going spend money every week on a visit to the therapist, which defeats the purpose, when they have to put food on the table and pay bills. And they'd probably would rather spend what other little money, if they had any left, on themselves or their family.  It's all messed up, man, also there is a lot of hurdles and red tape you got to through to qualify for medicaid these days and that sometimes puts a lot people off and they just say - "F" it!.

Add this to the social stigmas attached to seeking mental health treatment and it's even more of a disaster.

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Gunn
14 minutes ago, aztek said:

^^^ that is true as far as private clinics, practices go,  hospitals can not reject patients . but they are not as good in quality of care. thou not all private clinics offer better care some are complete sht

True, and you know thing about hospitals and what they do with people with mental health problems is, they just give people pills and send them on their doped up way, if there is nothing physically wrong with them and they're not a threat to anybody. Or if the individual is really out of his/her mind, throwing fits, violent attacks, a threat, they strap them down to the hospital bed, inject drugs and keep them there until the patient calms down. After that, they may send the patient to a mental facility or just them pills and send them on their way too. So they're not much help with getting the patient better through psychology or therapy.

@Tatetopa I haven't forgotten your post and I'll reply ASAP. It's just taking me a while to convey my thoughts on wordpad. :D

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aztek
3 minutes ago, Gunn said:

True, and you know thing about hospitals and what they do with people with mental health problems is, they just give people pills and send them on their doped up way, if there is nothing physically wrong with them and they're not a threat to anybody. Or if the individual is really out of his/her mind, throwing fits, violent attacks, a threat, they strap them down to the hospital bed, inject drugs and keep them there until the patient calms down. After that, they may send the patient to a mental facility or just them pills and send them on their way too. So they're not much help with getting the patient better through psychology or therapy.

 

true, but that is no different than any private office would do, they also prescribe pills, try different ones.  but they wont deal with anyone violent, if someone becomes that in their office they will either call, ambulance, who will call  cops, or office will call cops themselves, and if that person is not killed by cops they will take him to a hospital, where that person will be tied to a bed, given meds, and let go day or two later with a bottle of meds that he will not take regularly or at all

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Kismit

It appears to me that the two shooter stories are being mixed up purposefully on line for political reasons by both parties.

The El Paso shooter showed hate rhetoric from before Trump was President. Current political climate and inflammatory internet “media” have exasperated the problem. His motivation was to kill Hispanic’s and people of mixed race. This means that you can not look at his crime without also looking at his motive which is directly tied to his beliefs which are extremist far right.

The Ohio shooter was a socialist does this tie into his motive? that is hard to say without a manifesto. He killed his own sister first. That would indicate domestic issues rather than political ones, so logical discussion would tend into this direction first. This does not mean that his political beliefs did not somehow influence his decision as it also does not mean that the El Paso shooters domestic life did not influence his political opinions.

 I see people claiming online that one of the shooters social media was changed after the shooting I would like to see the evidence for this. And I am off to go looking for it now.

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