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Hazzard

What happens if a signal is found?

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OverSword
16 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Pish-Posh. My Tau Friends and the nice men in the strange robes that live down the street support me on this.

Never took you for a heretic. Probably a mutant and a cultist as well :gun:

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OverSword
1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

Why would aliens be communicating with our technology?

They will be communicating faster than light with a technique we dont know about yet. And it will be secure communication that other aliens cannot listen in too.

 

That’s a leap since we have no evidence that anything can go faster than light. And even if you’re right that doesn’t preclude them from detecting and communicating with us.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

@OverSword, although most agree with you, the phenomena of quantum interactions are believed to happen 10,000 faster than the speed of light by this research group "...a team of physicists led by Juan Yin at the University of Science and Technology of China in Shanghai"  link

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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, OverSword said:

That’s a leap since we have no evidence that anything can go faster than light. And even if you’re right that doesn’t preclude them from detecting and communicating with us.

I think it is quite naïve to expect aliens to communicate to us using our level of technology.

There is no way they could keep a galactic empire together with light speed electromagnetic communication. Which I highly suspect is why we haven't detected any. It doesnt take a genius to see that faster than light communication is possible:

Interdependent Existence

In our culture we treat something that exists as being isolated from the rest of the universe when it comes to doing science. Yet, independent existence is a falsehood. Everything has interdependent existence meaning that information can be acquired on distant things faster than the speed of light. Take a triangle for example:

Angles of a Triangle: The three angles of a triangle do not exist in isolation from each other, they have an interdependent existence. Because of this we know that the three angles always add up to 180 degrees. If we know two angles we also know the third regardless of how far away it is, and even if enough time hasn't passed for light to travel from it to us to observe yet.

Mathematic equations are full of interdependent relationships without the speed of light being a limiting factor. Okay, okay, so it takes a genius to realise that. I didnt want to blow my own trumpet.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Rlyeh
58 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I think it is quite naïve to expect aliens to communicate to us using our level of technology.

There is no way they could keep a galactic empire together with light speed electromagnetic communication. Which I highly suspect is why we haven't detected any. It doesnt take a genius to see that faster than light communication is possible:

Interdependent Existence

In our culture we treat something that exists as being isolated from the rest of the universe when it comes to doing science. Yet, independent existence is a falsehood. Everything has interdependent existence meaning that information can be acquired on distant things faster than the speed of light. Take a triangle for example:

Angles of a Triangle: The three angles of a triangle do not exist in isolation from each other, they have an interdependent existence. Because of this we know that the three angles always add up to 180 degrees. If we know two angles we also know the third regardless of how far away it is, and even if enough time hasn't passed for light to travel from it to us to observe yet.

Mathematic equations are full of interdependent relationships without the speed of light being a limiting factor. Okay, okay, so it takes a genius to realise that. I didnt want to blow my own trumpet.

Doesn't take a genius to realise your brilliant example has nothing to do with traveling faster than light.

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RabidMongoose
1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

Doesn't take a genius to realise your brilliant example has nothing to do with traveling faster than light.

Correct, award yourself a gold star!

Its actually about communicating faster than light instead.

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Rlyeh
5 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Correct, award yourself a gold star!

Its actually about communicating faster than light instead.

No communication is traveling faster than light.

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RabidMongoose
Just now, Rlyeh said:

No communication is traveling faster than light.

According to you, but you are so closed minded you cannot even read what I wrote objectively.

And your pal Xenofish will be here soon too lol.

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Hazzard
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I'll print it again and see if you are missing something in what I wrote.

 

look closely. Give up?   

  Hide contents

could have

 

Im not the one missing something here. You wrote "They could and have covered up Alien UFO incidents"... Now go back and read that post of yours again.  

Edited by Hazzard
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Rlyeh
19 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

According to you, but you are so closed minded you cannot even read what I wrote objectively.

And your pal Xenofish will be here soon too lol.

No, according to what you've said you already have the information.  Nothing is being communicated.

How would you send messages using your example?  You can't.

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Dejarma
On 8/9/2019 at 4:48 PM, XenoFish said:

Oh man. It would be hilarious if the first alien contact with have is one of their soap operas.:lol:

or worrying if it's an alien version of Amaq News

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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

No, according to what you've said you already have the information.  Nothing is being communicated.

How would you send messages using your example?  You can't.

So you dont understand what I wrote?

You can gain information about something by examining another thing which shares interdependent existence with it. Thats not quite the same as non-locality. But still, it means its possible to acquire information faster than the time taken for it to travel too you at light speed.

Lets suppose you instruct friend A to go and have a look if a distant object is red or blue. If its red he will go home, if its blue he will turn back up at your house. Hence, from his later presence (or lack thereof) you have gained indirect information on the colour of the object without ever being in contact with it.

Interdependent existence does not require any travel to have a look or travel back. Thats because the existence of a property or quality here is dependent on a property or quality existing elsewhere. Neither can exist without the other, they are the non-linear cause of each other, they share interdependent existence. Hence by examining the property or quality of the object here, you gain information on the property or quality of the other object elsewhere. That is faster than light information transfer.

Think about it this way. Can you tell where in the universe you are not located?

Of course you can. If you are here, you are not everywhere else. Therefore you have just indirectly acquired information about a point in the universe 100 million light years away. That information being, you are not there.

You just gained that information faster than light, violating General Relativity.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Dejarma
1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

Okay, okay, so it takes a genius to realise that. I didnt want to blow my own trumpet.

it's common knowledge on K-PAX

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Dejarma
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Lets suppose you instruct friend A to go and have a look if a distant object is red or blue. If its red he will go home, if its blue he will turn back up at your house. Hence, from his later presence (or lack thereof) you have gained indirect information on the colour of the object without ever being in contact with it.

how do you know the object in your made up example is there in the first place & that it could be red or blue?

Edited by Dejarma
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RabidMongoose
2 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

how do you know the object in your made up example that said object is there & that it could be red or blue?

Irrelevant, its an example showing you dont have to physically be in contact with an object to acquire information on it.

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Dejarma
1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

Irrelevant, its an example showing you dont have to physically be in contact with an object to acquire information on it.

no, it's not irrelevant:

you must have received info of it's existence .. Where did you get the info from & what were you told about it in your made-up example?

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Rlyeh
20 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

So you dont understand what I wrote?

You don't understand what you wrote.  A triangle has a sum of 180 degrees.  No information is being exchanged.

 

20 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

You can gain information about something by examining another thing which shares interdependent existence with it.

In your example you already had the information.

 

25 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Think about it this way. Can you tell where in the universe you are not located?

Of course you can. If you are here, you are not everywhere else. Therefore you have just indirectly acquired information about a point in the universe 100 million light years away. That information being, you are not there.

You just gained that information faster than light, violating General Relativity.

First you've got to get your location, that's not faster than light.  You are deliberately omitting measurements that have already been done.

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Rlyeh
13 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Irrelevant, its an example showing you dont have to physically be in contact with an object to acquire information on it.

No it's not irrelevant.  You're ignoring them in order to pretend you've received information faster than light.

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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

no, it's not irrelevant:

you must have received info of it's existence .. Where did you get the info from & what were you told about it in your made-up example?

That specific example only shows that information can be acquired indirectly, your further questions on it are irrelevant.

What matters is communicating using interdependent existence. It requires the application of logic and deductive reasoning to identify an interdependent existence relationship so that information can be acquired on a distant object.

Lets go back to the example of your location. You use logic and deductive reasoning to figure out if you exist here then you dont exist everywhere else. Hence, you have indirectly acquired information that you dont exist at a point 100 million light years away.

When it comes to constructing a FTL communication device, well I have thought about that too. And I`m not giving you my example as I will be filing the patent for it.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Rlyeh

@RabidMongoose Have you just become aware of gaining information indirectly, or do you think you're educating us about it?

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Dejarma
4 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

What matters is communicating using interdependent existence. It requires the application of logic and deductive reasoning to identify an interdependent existence relationship so that information can be acquired on a distant object.

all due respect but you still haven't answered the question..

I'll ask again:

in your made-up scenario= what were you told about the distant object to know it's there in the first place?

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RabidMongoose
1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

@RabidMongoose Have you just become aware of gaining information indirectly, or do you think you're educating us about it?

I dont know what you mean.

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Dejarma
26 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Irrelevant, its an example showing you dont have to physically be in contact with an object to acquire information on it.

that's bleeding obvious

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Dejarma
1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

I dont know what you mean.

i do

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RabidMongoose
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

all due respect but you still haven't answered the question..

I'll ask again:

in your made-up scenario= what were you told about the distant object to know it's there in the first place?

I did more than one example in my first post and you are choosing to focus on the first one, the one which isn't information transfer through interdependent existence.

Therefore you are asking irrelevant questions. A relevant question would be on the example of information acquisition through interdependent existence.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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