Epstein found Dead in Jail

[itsnotoutthere]

12 minutes ago, susieice said:

Weinstein was indeed found guilty. Andrew seems unwilling or unable to prove his innocence and clear his name. He has the opportunity to do so.

Just seems somewhat unfair that a person can go along with a situation one moment and then decide 20 years later that perhaps they're now not happy and persue someone through the courts. She'd have a shred more credabilty if she had done this 19 or 18 years ago. This is all about the money. 

I'm quite sure some if not most of those accusing Weinstein were also happy to go along with it as long as the film roles materialised but got a bit more disgruntled when the careers didn't take off. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by itsnotoutthere

[el midgetron]

 

[+susieice]

9 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Just seems somewhat unfair that a person can go along with a situation one moment and then decide 20 years later that perhaps they're now not happy and persue someone through the courts. She'd have a shred more credabilty if she had done this 19 or 18 years ago. This is all about the money. 

She always has said what she says now. Investigations can take years. Then it has to get into the courts. Then you have the years that Prince Andrew was evading the issue. All he's ever had to do was give a deposition to clear his name. Then he did that interview that really crashed. Again with this case, he's filed evasive arguments. Now he's admittedly long time friends with not just one but two convicted sex traffickers. There's no doubt what they were doing. He has the opportunity to go to court and present his case. Guiffre isn't going to take a cash settlement from what the lawyers are saying.

What's unfair is that there are many others who need to go on trial for what was going on, but we don't know if that's going to happen in the future.

And I do agree, that diplomat's wife needs to be extradited back to the UK to face charges for killing that young man. She doesn't have diplomatic immunity.

Edited January 13, 2022 by susieice

[jmccr8]

26 minutes ago, susieice said:

I have questions about Guiffre and the role she played. But you also need to remember that as a young girl, she was groomed to think this behavior was normal. It takes time away from it to think and realize that, no it isn't. I think she began to realize that even before she finally broke from Epstein. She was surrounded with very rich and very powerful people who were able to manipulate these girls. She admitted to what she did.

Hi Susieice

There will always be a grey area in this as I am not sure she is being completely honest about her participation. I knew 2 sisters that couldn't wait to be escorts because of the money and the leverage/power that they would have over men so I will not discount that she went along as long as it worked for her. Yes many of the people that she deal with have power and influence and she could have probably worked another gig through one of them but suspect that she may have got herself into trouble with that clique of people and decided to play the victim. 

Andrew deserves what is on his plate but I think her lawyers are saying she won't take cash because lets face it they make money from the proceedings and will milk it for what it is worth.

[+susieice]

13 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Susieice

There will always be a grey area in this as I am not sure she is being completely honest about her participation. I knew 2 sisters that couldn't wait to be escorts because of the money and the leverage/power that they would have over men so I will not discount that she went along as long as it worked for her. Yes many of the people that she deal with have power and influence and she could have probably worked another gig through one of them but suspect that she may have got herself into trouble with that clique of people and decided to play the victim. 

Andrew deserves what is on his plate but I think her lawyers are saying she won't take cash because lets face it they make money from the proceedings and will milk it for what it is worth.

Attorneys will milk anything for as much as it's worth. Even traffic tickets if they're given the chance. 

I can see how young girls can be manipulated and used by people who have such high social status and wealth. Especially when everyone around them is saying and acting like this is normal life. There can be real fear about confronting them and it takes space and maturity for a lot of victims to finally come forward. That's why states have passed laws giving people who were sexually abused as children more time to file suits. 

I won't just single out Guiffre because she's saying this happened. There's a whole lot of victims that have spoken out and a whole lot more who are still being quiet out of shame or fear. And she's not alone in saying she saw Prince Andrew.

What gets me is that people like Mrs. Dubin got called as a defense witness for Ghislaine. Her and her husband should both be on trial themselves! I posted that story a couple of pages back when it happened. They held a 15 yr old Swedish girl basically hostage until their butler helped her. Why didn't they call him as a witness?

Edited January 13, 2022 by susieice

[jmccr8]

5 minutes ago, susieice said:

I can see how young girls can be manipulated and used by people who have such high social status and wealth.

Hi Susieice

I have known girls that were raped by one or more family members and put out on the track by them to earn their keep so there are some that are forced. with Guiffre I don't think that was the case and will not speak further on this as I don't know what her motivations were at the time and because she started something then yes there will be others that will tag on some in hopes of financial gain and their motives are just as grey as Guillre's.

Why did she not name everyone that she served in the same manner as Andrew and why didn't the other girls name everyone that they serviced so that all of the offenders could be dealt with Epstein's black book would have confirmed it and it was held back from evidence because they were not named.

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Susieice

I have known girls that were raped by one or more family members and put out on the track by them to earn their keep so there are some that are forced. with Guiffre I don't think that was the case and will not speak further on this as I don't know what her motivations were at the time and because she started something then yes there will be others that will tag on some in hopes of financial gain and their motives are just as grey as Guillre's.

Why did she not name everyone that she served in the same manner as Andrew and why didn't the other girls name everyone that they serviced so that all of the offenders could be dealt with Epstein's black book would have confirmed it and it was held back from evidence because they were not named.

They did name a lot of people. Even Guiffre. This thread is full of them. There are 100's of victims that have said nothing out of fear or shame. 

[jmccr8]

Just now, susieice said:

They did name a lot of people. Even Guiffre. This thread is full of them. There are 100's of victims that have said nothing out of fear or shame. 

Hi Susieice

Then why were they not prosecuted if they were named, were they asked to give a statement the same as Andrew? Why was Andrew singled out and everyone else excluded from prosecution if they were named as having used the services of the girls involved, something doesn't seem right and have to wonder if there is not some underlying motivation involved?

[+susieice]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Susieice

Then why were they not prosecuted if they were named, were they asked to give a statement the same as Andrew? Why was Andrew singled out and everyone else excluded from prosecution if they were named as having used the services of the girls involved, something doesn't seem right and have to wonder if there is not some underlying motivation involved?

There were a lot of college professors fired or forced into resignation because of their association with Epstein. 

I do agree with you. Why aren't these rich and influential people being prosecuted for the roles they played? They certainly should be. 

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, susieice said:

There were a lot of college professors fired or forced into resignation because of their association with Epstein.

Hi Susieice

Fired or forced resignation for association is light if they took advantage of his girls services and should have been prosecuted, however association does not necessarily mean anything other than they knew him and may have met at social gatherings without taking advantage of Epstein's harem. This case just shows how flawed the justice system is.

[+susieice]

11 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Susieice

Fired or forced resignation for association is light if they took advantage of his girls services and should have been prosecuted, however association does not necessarily mean anything other than they knew him and may have met at social gatherings without taking advantage of Epstein's harem. This case just shows how flawed the justice system is.

They weren't accused of participating in the abuse. They took Epstein's dirty money when the universities said they could not. They didn't want the association with a convicted sex offender.

Edited January 13, 2022 by susieice

[jmccr8]

6 minutes ago, susieice said:

They weren't accused of participating in the abuse. They took Epstein's dirty money when the universities said they could not. They didn't want the association with a convicted sex offender.

Hi Susieice

Exactly they were not the people that took advantage of these girls and paid their price for knowing Epstein and if the courts were serious about justice they would have gone after the dogs that were using these girls.

[+susieice]

3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Susieice

Exactly they were not the people that took advantage of these girls and paid their price for knowing Epstein and if the courts were serious about justice they would have gone after the dogs that were using these girls.

There's no saying at the moment that they won't. More trials in the future are possible. The problem is that the wealthy and the prominent run the US. It's not easy to get them. People like you and me are simple but not them.

Edited January 13, 2022 by susieice

[jmccr8]

Just now, susieice said:

There's no saying at the moment that they won't. More trials in the future are possible. The problem is that the wealthy and the prominent run the US. It's not easy to get them. 

Hi Susieice

Everyone has a kink in their armor and publish the names of those involved, put the fear of god in them. Prosecution has lots of tricks they use so it's not like the tool kit is empty. Even if Andrew doesn't get convicted the damage to his credibility is gone and he comes from a big power family so it's up to the courts to pi** on some boots.

[+susieice]

2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Susieice

Everyone has a kink in their armor and publish the names of those involved, put the fear of god in them. Prosecution has lots of tricks they use so it's not like the tool kit is empty. Even if Andrew doesn't get convicted the damage to his credibility is gone and he comes from a big power family so it's up to the courts to pi** on some boots.

He did this to himself. It's up to him to step up. It really sounds like the family is over it.

Edited January 13, 2022 by susieice

[+susieice]

Here's a nice, new development. Guiffre has filed to unseal more documents with more names and it seems Maxwell isn't going to fight it.

https://www.nytimespost.com/prince-andrews-accusers-lawyers-demand-unsealing-of-information-about-epstein-and-maxwell/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7896171/Lawyers-Ghislaine-Maxwell-Virginia-Giuffre-hash-plan-release-docs.html

[jmccr8]

5 minutes ago, susieice said:

He did this to himself. It's up to him to step up. It really sounds like the family is over it.

Hi Susieice

Yes he did and the system put him in the position that he is in by going after him and rejecting anything his council advises which should be the same for any moneybags involved. Just like his family has distanced themselves so would the allies of the other rich people involved and it is on the onus of the courts to pursue justice by whatever means. They can play dirty pool too if they want to.

[+susieice]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Susieice

Yes he did and the system put him in the position that he is in by going after him and rejecting anything his council advises which should be the same for any moneybags involved. Just like his family has distanced themselves so would the allies of the other rich people involved and it is on the onus of the courts to pursue justice by whatever means. They can play dirty pool too if they want to.

I'm not going to keep arguing. These people brought this on themselves. It's up to them to answer the charges or keep fighting them. The more they fight, the guiltier they appear in the public eye.

Andrew's family has every right to not tolerate him hiding behind them. I'm sure these peoples' allies are going to scramble too. It's every man for himself. There's never been honor among thieves. A lot of these people are likely on videoes. It's a shame they aren't released.

Edited January 13, 2022 by susieice

[jmccr8]

7 minutes ago, susieice said:

I'm not going to keep arguing. These people brought this on themselves. It's up to them to answer the charges or keep fighting them. The more they fight, the guiltier they appear in the public eye.

Andrew's family has every right to not tolerate him hiding behind them. I'm sure these peoples' allies are going to scramble too. It's every man for himself. There's never been honor among thieves. A lot of these people are likely on videoes. It's a shame they aren't released.

Hi Susieice

Sorry if I gave you the impression that I was arguing with you.

For the most part we agree on most points including the guilt of Andrew, I just wish that the court system would have been a little more aggressive in bringing all of those involved to court to be properly shamed and judged.

[+susieice]

11 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Susieice

Sorry if I gave you the impression that I was arguing with you.

For the most part we agree on most points including the guilt of Andrew, I just wish that the court system would have been a little more aggressive in bringing all of those involved to court to be properly shamed and judged.

It seems like that may happen now although it could be heavily redacted. We'll have to see. The 8 named are fighting release of these new documents but it doesn't sound like the court is going to side with them. It is a beginning. I think the fallout from all of this is far from over. Hopefully there will be even more. The wheels of justice move slow.

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, susieice said:

It seems like that may happen now although it could be heavily redacted. We'll have to see. The 8 named are fighting release of these new documents but it doesn't sound like the court is going to side with them. It is a beginning. I think the fallout from all of this is far from over. Hopefully there will be even more. The wheels of justice move slow.

I am all out of likes and lets hope others will be judged

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

The Queen will already have a plan in place.

a trip to Paris and a white fiat for Randy?

Edited January 13, 2022 by Sir Wearer of Hats

[+susieice]

5 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

a trip to Paris and a white fiat for Randy?

It doesn't sound like she's ready to keep protecting him. She will not pay any settlement and now Andrew has lost his titles including being referred to as HRH. There's only so much crap any family is going to tolerate, and I do feel sorry for HM as a mother. This can't be easy for her but Andrew has been using his family for a long time. He even sat Ghislaine Maxwell on his mother's throne. He's invited them to numerous parties at different palaces. They were rubbing elbows with the RF because of Andrew, who knew what was going on. Prince Charles, Prince William, they've just had it. They aren't going to keep covering for him. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by susieice

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 minute ago, susieice said:

It doesn't sound like she's ready to keep protecting him. She will not pay any settlement and now Andrew has lost his titles including being referred to as HRH. There's only so much crap any family is going to tolerate, and I do feel sorry for HM as a mother. This can't be easy for her but Andrew has been using his family for a long time. He even sat Ghislaine Maxwell on his mother's throne. Prince Charles, Prince William, they've just had it. They aren't going to keep covering for him. 

Randy can see the writing on rhe wall when the Heir and the Heir Apparent both say “face the music”. And, I never thought I’d invoke the Sainted Diana in conversation, but apparently she asked to never be left alone with Randy. 

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Randy can see the writing on rhe wall when the Heir and the Heir Apparent both say “face the music”. And, I never thought I’d invoke the Sainted Diana in conversation, but apparently she asked to never be left alone with Randy. 

Yes. We found links in here where she said she would cry because of the way Andrew and Ghislaine would treat her. Diana said herself that there were things wrong with Andrew. There are also links where Kate Middleton told William she does not want Andrew around her children. When all is said and done, they are a family and I understand why they feel like they do.