Epstein found Dead in Jail

[Wistman]

1 minute ago, susieice said:

Maybe Andrew is realizing this isn't a game he can just keep ignoring. At least if someone shows up to represent him, he doesn't just forfeit his right to a defense.

It's all last minute maneuvering, too.  Somebody alarmed the crown enough to do something quick, almost belatedly.  This is now getting interesting.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

3 minutes ago, Wistman said:

It's all last minute maneuvering, too.  Somebody alarmed the crown enough to do something quick, almost belatedly.  This is now getting interesting.

I think the judge accepting “it was handed to a police officer” as a viable “serving” worried them, they probably thought Handy Andy could hide under mumsie’s skirts for a while and avoid the law. Turns out that someone so far down the chain of monarchy that a toddler and an angry red-head rank higher than him doesn’t get protected. 

[+susieice]

16 minutes ago, Wistman said:

It's all last minute maneuvering, too.  Somebody alarmed the crown enough to do something quick, almost belatedly.  This is now getting interesting.

I wonder if somebody told them Andrew is now in contempt of court and a warrant has been issued for his arrest. That could happen too.

[Wistman]

5 minutes ago, susieice said:

I wonder if somebody told them Andrew is now in contempt of court and a warrant has been issued for his arrest. That could happen too.

They found the lawyer just before the hearing, so somebody anticipated and warned them it could go the wrong way, and how serious that could be.

I have to say the publicly reported nya-nya party at Balmoral seems very foolish now.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Wistman

[+susieice]

9 minutes ago, Wistman said:

They found the lawyer just before the hearing, so somebody anticipated and warned them it could go the wrong way, and how serious that could be.

I have to say the publicly reported nya-nya party at Balmoral seems very foolish now.

The majority of the British people also want Andrew to come clean and tell the courts what he knows. Admit you didn't make the best decisions at the time. He's not at all suspected of doing any trafficking but he knows a lot about Epstein and Ghislaine and what they were doing.

[+susieice]

Apparently, there is a sealed settlement agreement that Guiffre made with Epstein in 2009 that Alan Dershowitz used to have her suit with him dropped. He thinks it can also help Andrew.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2021/09/13/prince-andrew-lawsuit-judge-wont-ok-release-of-secret-epstein-settlement/8320876002/

"It's a baseless, non-viable, potentially unlawful lawsuit filed against the duke," Brettler said. He said there is a settlement agreement in a different matter involving Giuffre that "releases the duke and others from any and all potential liability."

In 2009, Giuffre and Epstein reached a confidential settlement in a lawsuit she filed against him, which has been sealed ever since. Last month, according to documents on file in federal court, Giuffre dropped her claim of sexual battery she made in a separate lawsuit against lawyer Alan Dershowitz, who formerly represented Epstein, after Dershowitz invoked this part of the 2009 settlement agreement. 

But the judge interrupted Brettler before he could launch into his argument, saying this hearing was not intended for that discussion, and was focused only on the service issue. Later, after Brettler again brought up the sealed settlement issue, Kaplan batted it away, even as he said he understood Brettler's position. 

"If there is a document that would provide your client with an affirmative defense to a claim, or help him out in England or both, you'd rather see it sooner rather than later. There's a lot to be said for that point of view," Kaplan said.

[+susieice]

Here's more about the settlement agreement that Dershowitz wants to unseal.

https://www.tmz.com/2021/09/09/alan-dershowitz-unseal-jeffrey-epstein-settlement-help-prince-andrew/

[+susieice]

The British High Court has agreed to serve the court papers to Prince Andrew.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/nyregion/prince-andrew-epstein-lawsuit.html

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/15/high-court-will-serve-us-court-papers-on-prince-andrew-if-necessary

Initially, the high court rejected the request, but after further information was provided, agreed to it.

“The lawyers acting for Ms Giuffre have now provided further information to the high court, and the high court has accepted the request for service under the Hague service convention,” a high court spokesperson said.

“The legal process has not yet been served but the high court will now take steps to serve under the convention unless service is arranged by agreement between the parties.”

[+susieice]

Reportedly, Princess Beatrice was admitted to the hospital Friday in preparation for the birth of her baby. Will Andrew leave Balmoral to be with her? Some say he will.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16177724/prince-andrew-pregnant-princess-beatrice/

[+susieice]

Andrew has a new granddaughter.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58627115

[Wistman]

Bill Gates's cringe-worthy interview with PBS's Judy Woodruff re his interactions with Jeff:

[+susieice]

Guiffre's attorneys are saying Andrew has now been legally served in the US.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-22/prince-andrew-served-with-sexual-assault-lawsuit-in-us/100482642

In a filing with the US District Court in Manhattan, lawyers for Virginia Giuffre said they sent the civil lawsuit to the prince's Los Angeles-based lawyer Andrew Brettler by email and FedEx, and both copies had been received by Monday morning.

Under federal rules, the Duke of York has 21 days to respond or could face a default judgment. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by susieice

[+susieice]

23 hours ago, Wistman said:

Bill Gates's cringe-worthy interview with PBS's Judy Woodruff re his interactions with Jeff:

Melinda made herself clear about how she felt about this from the start. She contradicts everything he's saying here.

[+OverSword]

Here is Breaking points analysis of that interview and notably Krystal and Saagar have this pinned in the comments:

Quote

Another Epstein segment on our show demonetized by YouTube, so please support us if you can.

Wow!!  Demonitized for talking about a billionaire having a relationship with a billionaire pedophile.  Big tech protects it's own eh?

Edited September 27, 2021 by OverSword

[Wistman]

Mommy couldn't protect little Andy from the big, bad legal problemo.

Sept. 28

He's officially served — again: Prince Andrew acknowledges he faces NY sex-assault lawsuit

Quote

The acknowledgment was confirmed in a joint agreement signed by a lawyer for the Duke of York, approved by a Manhattan federal judge and entered into the public court record Tuesday.

The court papers said Andrew had been challenging acceptance of the lawsuit until lawyers spoke by phone on Sept. 21. An agreement was signed three days later, according to the order signed by Judge Lewis Kaplan.

.

Quote

Andrew's London lawyers so far have not responded publicly to the lawsuit. It's not clear if the move by his American lawyer to accept service of the lawsuit marks a shift in the prince's legal strategy.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2021/09/28/prince-andrew-officially-served-new-york-sex-assault-lawsuit/5905378001/

[+susieice]

Maybe now we'll hear what he has to say. I still think he'll try to protect Ghislaine.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 hours ago, susieice said:

Maybe now we'll hear what he has to say. I still think he'll try to protect Ghislaine.

I think we’ll hear that he thought it was legal, that people offer him all sorts of weird things all the time and sex was just another commodity offered to him in exchange for a favour, that he doesn’t sweat, that he never thought for a moment there was anything wrong, that he’s a good man and he’d have acted if he knew there was something wrong, he has grandchildren you know, he was on the moon at th time …. He’ll offer a legion of excuses and one of them will be accepted, because the powerful are never truly held to account. Ohh we get the occasional show of it, but in reality no one  powerful is ever really held to the same standards we mere mortals are. 

[+susieice]

Katie Couric has discussed a dinner party she attended in the New York mansion with Epstein and Andrew. She describes it as being like "Eyes Wide Shut".

https://www.newsweek.com/jeffrey-epstein-prince-andrew-dinner-eyes-wide-shut-new-york-mansion-katie-couric-1634143

It seems Katie dissed a lot of people. I knew George Stephanopoulos had eaten dinner at the mansion with Epstein. That discussion is back in the thread. It sounds like quite some book she's releasing. I'll have to read this one!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10037351/Katie-Courics-new-book-sparks-outrage-rips-ex-boyfriends-former-NBC-CBS-colleagues.html

Edited October 1, 2021 by susieice

[+susieice]

The Queen is paying Andrew's legal bills in his fight against Guiffre. Supposedly, she's already paid millions of $s.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16306055/queen-prince-andrew-defence-sex-abuse/

https://www.fr24news.com/a/2021/08/queen-pays-prince-andrews-legal-bills-amid-credibility-issues.html

Queen Elizabeth pays Prince Andrew’s legal bills as palace attendants express doubts over the royal’s account of his relationship with Virginia Giuffre, who sued him in Manhattan federal court for alleged sexual assault this week.

Lawyers for the prince are also desperate not to see him stand trial in the United States, according to an article in The Times of London.

[Wistman]

Witness who claims she saw Prince Andrew dancing with his sex accuser Virginia Roberts in Tramp nightclub on night he insists he was in Pizza Express 'will testify in court'

Sept. 27

Quote

An eyewitness who claims she saw Prince Andrew dancing with his alleged sex abuse victim Virginia Giuffre - on the same night he said he was at Pizza Express - will testify in court. 

Shukri Walker has reportedly agreed to appear at the upcoming civil case in the US - where she will tell the court that she saw the Duke of York at Tramp nightclub in London back in 2001.  

Somali-born Ms Walker, who lives in London, is expected to stand by a written statement she gave to the FBI, in which she said she vividly remembered apologising to the Queen's son after standing on his foot on the dancefloor, to which she claims he replied: 'No problem.' 

Quote

Alleged witness Ms Walker said: 'He (Andrew) looked like he was having a great time.

'And he was with this young girl who was close to my own age, perhaps even a bit younger than me.

'The young woman wasn't smiling, it was the opposite of smiles.

'They were with the woman who (had) just been arrested, Ghislaine Maxwell, and Epstein. I will never forget the night because I was told this is a real Prince.'

Andrew also wiped the back of his hand across his face several times, she claimed. The Duke infamously said he 'does not sweat' due to a medical condition.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10034947/Eyewitness-says-saw-Prince-Andrew-dancing-sex-accuser-testify-court.html

 

Prince Andrew Rolls Out New Paparazzi Defense

Shukri Walker has previously told the FBI she stepped on Andrew’s toe on the floor of a London nightclub in March 2001. Andrew’s camp say it’s not true, and he was eating pizza.

Sept. 28

Quote

Prince Andrew has dramatically changed his legal strategy in the civil case being brought against him by alleged Jeffrey Epstein sex slave Virginia Giuffre, who accuses Andrew of raping her three times.

There is fresh evidence of that new direction today after the prince’s camp briefed The Daily Beast that Andrew intends to dispute testimony from a woman who claims to have seen him in London’s Tramp nightclub with Giuffre.

Quote

Walker previously said: “Andrew looked like he was having a great time. He was with this young girl who was close to my own age, perhaps even a bit younger than me… I will never forget the night because I was told this is a real prince.”

However, a friend of Andrew’s pushed back after the claim surfaced, telling The Daily Beast: “We understand that the FBI have previously declined the testimony of Shukri Walker, who last year offered this same set of ‘recollections’ to national newspapers for a six-figure sum.

“She seems to be in a minority of one in her recall.

“Tramp nightclub, which does not have either a back or side entrance, was a popular celebrity hangout and had paparazzi staked outside of its doors every night of the week. It is worth noting that not a single image of the duke either arriving or leaving Tramp’s on the weekend in question has ever emerged.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-andrew-rolls-out-new-paparazzi-defense-against-virginia-giuffre-witness-shukri-walker

eta:  one salient point, the age of consent in the US Virgin Islands is 18, one of the locations (besides NYC and London) where Giuffre claims in her civil suit against Andrew that she was forced to have sex with him.  Their encounters in London and New York were within the age of consent limits in those locations (16 and 17 respectively), though she claims she did not freely give consent, she was 'captive' of Epstein and Maxwell, and Andrew knew that was so.

I'm not sure how much weight the Virgin Islands encounters' legality will have in the Manhattan case specifically, though if Giuffre wins the Manhattan case it will likely impact any Virgin Islands legal actions against Andrew she might file there, and would certainly extend into the already existing suits filed early this year by the V.A. Attorney General against Epstein's estate.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Wistman

[+susieice]

Can you be trafficked at any age?

 

 

Victims of trafficking can be any age, race, gender, or nationality, including U.S. citizens. ... Those who recruit minors for the purpose of commercial sex are violating U.S. anti-trafficking laws, even if no force, fraud, or coercion was involved.

 

Human Trafficking 101 for School Administrators and Staff

https://rems.ed.gov › docs › Human Trafficking 101 for S

[Wistman]

3 minutes ago, susieice said:

Can you be trafficked at any age?

 

 

Victims of trafficking can be any age, race, gender, or nationality, including U.S. citizens. ... Those who recruit minors for the purpose of commercial sex are violating U.S. anti-trafficking laws, even if no force, fraud, or coercion was involved.

 

Human Trafficking 101 for School Administrators and Staff

https://rems.ed.gov › docs › Human Trafficking 101 for S

Easier to show against Epstein and Maxwell I think since they were the traffickers themselves..  For Andrew, Giuffre will have to prove that he knew she was captive to Jeff and Ghislaine and not assenting of her own free will.

[+susieice]

Just now, Wistman said:

Easier to show against Epstein and Maxwell I think since they were the traffickers themselves..  For Andrew, Giuffre will have to prove that he knew she was captive to Jeff and Ghislaine and not assenting of her own free will.

Andrew has never been accused of trafficking anyone. US authorities have been after him to answer questions about what he saw and knew about Epstein and Maxwell. They even said he could go into a British Court and swear a statement before a judge and it would be accepted. Although he always said he would co-operate fully, he never did. He's protecting them. Guiffre's lawsuit is civil, not criminal. Unless he does something stupid, he isn't facing jail time. She may need to prove her case against Ghislaine because she was trafficking her. But I really think her case against Andrew is more to get him into court where he'll have to answer those questions under oath. He's making himself a fool protecting those two and I'm not so sure Ghislaine will really do the same for him when she's on trial. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

There’s also the issue of sex, with anyone of any age, without consent is rape. 
So Randy Andy’s defence of “she wasn’t under age” only loses the paedophile angle and doesn’t exonerate him. 

[Wistman]

4 hours ago, susieice said:

Andrew has never been accused of trafficking anyone. US authorities have been after him to answer questions about what he saw and knew about Epstein and Maxwell. They even said he could go into a British Court and swear a statement before a judge and it would be accepted. Although he always said he would co-operate fully, he never did. He's protecting them. Guiffre's lawsuit is civil, not criminal. Unless he does something stupid, he isn't facing jail time. She may need to prove her case against Ghislaine because she was trafficking her. But I really think her case against Andrew is more to get him into court where he'll have to answer those questions under oath. He's making himself a fool protecting those two and I'm not so sure Ghislaine will really do the same for him when she's on trial. 

I didn't mean to imply he was accused of trafficking.  She's accusing him of engaging in sexual acts without her consent, of knowing how old she was, and that she was a sex-trafficking victim.  To do so she has to show that he knew she didn't consent, that she was underage, and that he knew she wasn't free to leave Epstein's circuit...or let's just say: he knew she was underage and being exploited, and knowing that exploited her himself.  Not saying these accusations aren't true, well maybe the age thing isn't, but she'd have to show their truth.  She also accuses him of 'using his wealth, power, position, and connections to abuse a frightened child with no one there to protect her' (her words).  She alleges Andrew's abuse of her occurred at Ghislaine's London home, at Epstein's NY townhouse and his private island (Virgin Islands). 

Of course if Giuffre doesn't intend to win against him she doesn't have to prove anything.  Though it might be useful in the other pending cases as supportive evidence if she could, but doing so is a high bar to jump admittedly.  And, he can always plead the fifth if he wants to, even though it's a civil action, and decline to testify in his own behalf, as is his right.  It might not look good to a jury, but if she can't prove his culpability on the charges what difference does it make?

A deposition before the FBI or the US Attorney SDNY might actually have been more tricky for him to undertake, not sure how a statement to a British court would work ie: how innocuous or obtuse it could be and still be acceptable.  That's beyond my ken.     

Last I heard he's still at Balmoral.  He has representation in NY for the trial, and his London lawyers are stonewalling.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Wistman