Epstein found Dead in Jail

[+susieice]

The Dubins were the couple that had the 15 yr old Swedish girl that their butler helped to escape. There's more about this in the thread. What did the prosecution have to say about this on cross examination? I haven't had a chance to review the articles today.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epstein-scandal-butler-for-glenn-and-eva-dubin-says-swedish-teen-told-him-she-was-pressured-for-sex

There's a whole lot wrong with this trial.  

[+susieice]

16 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

The fix is in. 
Anyone who can’t see it is wilfully blind, unless somehow her defence thinks that a few people saying “I didn’t see anything” is a valid defence that’ll counter “he did this, she enabled it”. 

I don't understand the prosecution at all. They had witnesses to refute the Dubins and it sounds like they did nothing. Glenn Dubin resigned his position because of his relationship with Epstein. I posted above about what their butler said.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/economy/the-business-titans-sucked-into-the-epstein-scandal

Glenn Dubin

Hedge fund billionaire Glenn Dubin is another business figure who resigned in the wake of Epstein’s downfall. Dubin, whose wife once dated Epstein, denied that his resignation was related to the scandal.

Dubin and his wife, Eva Andersson-Dubin, reportedly remained in contact with Epstein after his 2008 conviction and invited him to Thanksgiving the following year.

Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre has also claimed to have had sex with Dubin after an hourslong massage at a hotel in Palm Beach, Florida, according to Business Insider. The couple has vociferously denied Giuffre’s claims.

“Glenn and Eva Dubin are outraged by the allegations in the unsealed court records, which are demonstrably false and defamatory,” a spokesperson said. “The Dubins have flight records and other evidence that definitively disprove that any such events occurred.”

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by susieice

[+susieice]

Epstein wanted to marry the Dubins' daughter. I can't believe the prosecution wouldn't have rebuked this testimony. They had the facts. They're all through this thread. Mrs. Dubin is an Epstein ex.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epstein-reportedly-wanted-to-marry-teenage-daughter-of-ex-girlfriend-eva-andersson-dubin

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/jeffrey-epstein-wanted-to-marry-exgirlfriends-teenage-daughter-who-called-him-uncle-jeff/news-story/b90293d678e1320097fe70ee90ff2124

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7804457/Pedophile-Jeffrey-Epstein-wanted-marry-24-year-old-daughter-ex-girlfriend.html

 

This is all BS. Dear Eva lied through her teeth.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/defense-rests-ghislaine-maxwell-trial-two-days-rcna9194

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by susieice

[Wistman]

Wife of Hedge Fund Billionaire and Ex-Girlfriend of Jeffrey Epstein Testifies in Ghislaine Maxwell Trial

Dec. 17

Quote

“Did you ever observe any inappropriate conduct between Mr. Epstein and any teenage girls?” Maxwell’s attorney Jeffrey Pagliuca asked her.

Following a prosecution objection, Pagliuca revised the question include a time frame specified in Maxwell’s indictment, between the years of 1994 and 2004. The attorney also specified he was referring to “underage females.”

With those subtle revisions, Andersson-Dubin answered: “I did not.”

Then, on cross:

Quote

For Andersson-Dubin’s testimony, prosecutors unsealed numerous names listed in Epstein’s flight logs, save for the names of the women who have testified anonymously. Pagliuca asked Andersson-Dubin about her appearance on certain flight records, which apparently showed that she flew with a person who shared “Jane’s” true name.

“I don’t recall ever meeting this person,” Andersson-Dubin said of “Jane.”

According to prosecutors, Andersson-Dubin may not remember much these days. Assistant U.S. Attorney Alison Moe hinted that the witness has an underlying medical condition noticed by her family, but she said she would not prod into details that would invade her privacy.

“It’s very hard for me to remember anything from far back,” Andersson-Dubin said, referring to events in the case spanning back decades.

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/ghislaine-maxwell/wife-of-hedge-fund-billionaire-and-ex-girlfriend-of-jeffrey-epstein-testifies-in-ghislaine-maxwell-trial/

[acidhead]

[+susieice]

The judge gave the jury it's final instructions in a rare weekend court hearing on Saturday.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/judge-finalizes-jury-instructions-maxwell-sex-abuse-trial-81834071

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, susieice said:

The judge gave the jury it's final instructions in a rare weekend court hearing on Saturday.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/judge-finalizes-jury-instructions-maxwell-sex-abuse-trial-81834071

Soon to be followed by an equally rare “as soon as the sun rises” return of a “not guilty” verdict?

[+susieice]

8 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Soon to be followed by an equally rare “as soon as the sun rises” return of a “not guilty” verdict?

I don't know what to expect really. This case was a farce of what it should have been. I hope the jury can see the role Maxwell played in this trafficking ring. Powerful people involved though.

[+susieice]

In closing arguments today the prosecution said Maxwell was a dangerous predator of young women.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ghislaine-maxwell-was-sophisticated-predator-key-epsteins-operation-pr-rcna9269

"Ghislaine Maxwell was dangerous," Assistant U.S. Attorney Alison Moe said, addressing a courtroom in lower Manhattan for more than two hours, depicting her as a "sophisticated predator who knew exactly what she was doing" when she targeted and conditioned girls and young women for Epstein.

 

"She manipulated her victims and groomed them," Moe told the jury. "She caused deep and lasting harm to young girls. It is time to hold her accountable."

The defense contends she is being scapegoated by the prosecution because the government cannot go after Epstein, and that his accusers have been motivated by money from a settlement. During the trial, lawyers also tried to distance Maxwell from some of the accusations of sexual abuse made against Epstein, and hammered home that "she is not Jeffrey Epstein. She is not like Jeffrey Epstein."

"Ghislaine Maxwell is an innocent woman, wrongfully accused of crimes she did not commit," defense lawyer Laura Menninger said during her closing arguments.

Maxwell was key to Epstein's operation, Moe argued Monday, saying she and Epstein shared a "little black book" that had the phone numbers of young women for massages and that Maxwell "ran the same playbook again, again and again."

[+susieice]

The defense claims Epstein kept secrets from Maxwell. Not a good link but makes a point.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/closing-arguments-ghislaine-maxwells-sex-abuse-trial-kick-off-2021-12-20/

NEW YORK, Dec 20 (Reuters) - Jeffrey Epstein kept many secrets from ex-girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell, a defense lawyer said at the close of the British socialite's sex abuse trial on Monday, arguing prosecutors did not prove she knew about his activities with teenage girls.

 

[+susieice]

The NY Times is running an article with updates.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/20/nyregion/ghislaine-maxwell-trial

[+Desertrat56]

15 minutes ago, susieice said:

The NY Times is running an article with updates.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/20/nyregion/ghislaine-maxwell-trial

Have to have a subscription to see the article.

[+susieice]

2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Have to have a subscription to see the article.

Sorry Desertrat. It's coming up ok for me. I knew Reuters was like that. That's why I said it wasn't a good link but did make a point. I'll see what else I can find.

[+susieice]

The NY Times article just added this to what wasn't already posted. Here it is from ABC. The case is now in the hands of the jury. We can only hope the prosecution made it's case.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trial-ghislaine-maxwell-jeffrey-epsteins-alleged-recruiter-jury/story?id=81862451

Here's from the Times...

Jurors in the sex-trafficking trial of Ghislaine Maxwell began their deliberations on Monday afternoon after about six hours of closing arguments and 12 days of testimony that asked them to consider Ms. Maxwell’s role in Jeffrey Epstein’s sexual abuse of teenage girls.

Closing arguments presented the final chance for each side to be heard in court and an opportunity for lawyers to present a narrative to jurors that might help them make sense of testimony they had heard from about 30 witnesses over three weeks.

Both the prosecution and the defense spent most of their time addressing testimony by four women — Jane, Kate, Carolyn and Annie Farmer — who said Ms. Maxwell had helped Mr. Epstein to sexually abuse them when they were teenagers.

Here are some takeaways from the closing arguments:

Prosecutors urged jurors to believe the accusers

Alison Moe, a federal prosecutor, began her closing argument by telling jurors that Ms. Maxwell had worked closely with Mr. Epstein, intentionally bringing young girls into his orbit knowing that he wanted to sexually abuse them.

“Maxwell was a sophisticated predator who knew exactly what she was doing,” Ms. Moe said. “She manipulated her victims and groomed them for sexual abuse.”

The two found vulnerable girls, befriended them and eventually abused them, Ms. Moe said. She added that Ms. Maxwell’s role was to make girls feel comfortable by acting as a friend or mentor and then acclimate them to sexual touching, making the abuse seem normal.

During a rebuttal that followed the defense’s closing argument, another prosecutor, Maurene Comey, told jurors that Ms. Maxwell had underestimated the teenage girls who now, as mature women, were accusing her of enabling Mr. Epstein’s predations. “The defendant didn’t count on all four of them coming forward with an avalanche of evidence,” Ms. Comey said.

The defense focused on the unreliability of accusers’ memories

“Ghislaine Maxwell is an innocent woman wrongfully accused of crimes she did not commit,” one of her defense lawyers, Laura Menninger, announced to jurors as she began her summation.

Ms. Menninger argued the prosecution’s case was based on “erroneous memories” from witnesses that were partly the result of “manipulation” by civil lawyers and were largely motivated by a desire for money.

She rejected evidence from an expert witness for the government about the common practice by many pedophiles of “grooming” potential sexual abuse victims, saying it had come from someone who was “the ultimate victim apologist.”

Then Ms. Menninger reviewed parts of the accounts given on the stand by each of the government’s main witnesses, highlighting to jurors what she said were flaws and inconsistencies.

She also suggested that Ms. Maxwell was a convenient stand-in for Mr. Epstein, who killed himself while he was in federal custody in 2019 awaiting trial on sex-trafficking charges. Ms. Menninger said that the government had tried to turn Ms. Maxwell into a villain.

“Ghislaine Maxwell is not Jeffrey Epstein,” Ms. Menninger said, adding that prosecutors had depicted her as Cruella de Vil and ‘The Devil Wears Prada’ “all wrapped up into one.”

—

[Wistman]

Here’s What the Jury Notes Reveal About the First Full Day of Ghislaine Maxwell Deliberations

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/ghislaine-maxwell/heres-what-the-jury-notes-reveal-about-the-first-full-day-of-ghislaine-maxwell-deliberations/

a mixed bag, but interesting

[+Desertrat56]

Has the jury come back yet?

[+susieice]

4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Has the jury come back yet?

No. They are still in deliberations. This is now the third day, not the second. They are asking to review testimony.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/22/us/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-wednesday/index.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/21/ghislaine-maxwell-jury-requests-transcripts-at-jeffrey-epstein-crime-trial.html

[+susieice]

The jury has been adjourned until Monday as the court takes it's Christmas break. There is still no verdict.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/nyregion/ghislaine-maxwell-trial.html

The jurors in the Ghislaine Maxwell sex-trafficking trial were sent home by the judge on Wednesday after a second full day of deliberating without reaching a verdict.

The jury’s departure followed a quiet day in the Manhattan courtroom where the trial is being held. Defense lawyers and prosecutors largely stayed away while reporters, sketch artists and court security officers wandered in and out.

The jury’s nearly daylong silence was impossible to read, but Ms. Maxwell’s lawyers, and the defendant herself, seemed chipper as they entered court in the late afternoon to hear from the judge. Two of Ms. Maxwell’s lawyers gave each other a high-five.

Received wisdom in courthouses is that quick decisions from juries are typically guilty verdicts, with longer deliberations signaling confusion, a lack of consensus or a complicated split decision.

But when there are few notes from a jury, attempts to divine its leanings are often futile, and the jury in Ms. Maxwell’s case must analyze three weeks of complex testimony and evaluate six separate charges. The jurors have given no indication that there is any disagreement among them.

Ms. Maxwell’s trial will resume on Monday, beginning its fifth week. During its deliberations this past Tuesday, the jury made several requests of the judge, which at least suggested some of the topics the jurors may be discussing.

In one note, the jury asked for an F.B.I. document summarizing a 2007 interview with one of Ms. Maxwell’s accusers, who has been identified only by her first name, Carolyn. The indictment charges that Carolyn was a sex trafficking victim of Ms. Maxwell.

Ms. Maxwell’s lawyers, while cross-examining Carolyn, tried to show that her trial testimony conflicted somewhat with statements she made in the 2007 interview. The judge wrote back to the jury that the F.B.I. summary had not been admitted as evidence and said that the testimony about it was in the trial transcript that they had.

In another note later on Tuesday, the jury asked whether it could consider the testimony of another accuser, Annie Farmer, who used her true name when testifying at the trial, in weighing two of the conspiracy counts against Ms. Maxwell.

 

[+susieice]

The jury was back in deliberations today. They had asked for transcripts of all 4 of the victims' testimony and 4 other witnesses.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/27/us/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-monday/index.html

Jurors deliberated for about an hour last Monday and then all of Tuesday and Wednesday. In that time, they asked the court to provide the transcripts of testimony from "Jane," "Kate," Carolyn and Annie Farmer -- the four women whose claims form the core of the case against Maxwell.

 

The jury has also requested transcripts of testimony from four other witnesses: Juan Alessi, Maxwell's house manager; "Matt," Jane's former boyfriend; Gregory Parkinson, the former Palm Beach Police crime scene manager who was present at the 2005 search of Epstein's house in Palm Beach, Florida; and David Rogers, a pilot for Epstein and Maxwell.

On Monday morning, the jury asked for a definition of "enticement," which is part of two of the charges. The judge wrote that the word meant to "attract, induce or lure using hope or desire."

And during its afternoon deliberations the jury sent a question to the judge about one of the charges. After a debate on how to respond, Judge Alison Nathan ultimately referred the jury back to the jury charge instructions, saying to the parties in court she didn't know the meaning of the question and it was "too difficult to parse factually and legally what they're asking."

[+susieice]

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/12/27/jury-resumes-deliberations-ghislaine-maxwell-trial/5711640624831/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/jury-resumes-deliberations-at-ghislaine-maxwells-trial/2021/12/27/6b716464-6723-11ec-9390-eae241f4c8b1_story.html

The jury considering the fate of Ghislaine Maxwell at her sex trafficking trial finished a third full day of deliberations Monday with no sign that a verdict is near and no clear signal either that there is dissension in their ranks.

 

Jurors in Manhattan federal court asked for multi-colored sticky notes and a white board, along with transcripts of some trial testimony, the definition of “enticement” and a question on the law. Judge Alison J. Nathan referred them to her legal instructions that she read to them just before they began deliberations a week ago.

The judge also requested that they deliberate an extra hour beginning Tuesday, unless that created a hardship.

Edited December 28, 2021 by susieice

[+susieice]

Ghislaine spent her 60th birthday on Saturday in prison.

[+Desertrat56]

10 hours ago, susieice said:

Ghislaine spent her 60th birthday on Saturday in prison.

Oh my god, so what.   She knew what she was doing.  Maybe it was done to her when she was young and stupid, but she doesn't deserve any sympathy in my opinion.    There is a culture that rich people can do anything and pay their way out, and it is easy to entice greedy people to join them.   There has to be some way to put an end to the attitudes that a lot of rich (politicians and corporate CEOs) have that other humans don't matter.

[Myles]

44 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Oh my god, so what.   She knew what she was doing.  Maybe it was done to her when she was young and stupid, but she doesn't deserve any sympathy in my opinion.    There is a culture that rich people can do anything and pay their way out, and it is easy to entice greedy people to join them.   There has to be some way to put an end to the attitudes that a lot of rich (politicians and corporate CEOs) have that other humans don't matter.

Why did you equate that with sympathy?     I took it as being a little bit of justice being served as the woman had to have been thinking about what she did and has in store for herself. 

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

Why did you equate that with sympathy?     I took it as being a little bit of justice being served as the woman had to have been thinking about what she did and has in store for herself. 

Well, I equate it with sympathy because it was mentioned.   She is not a little girl.  Birthdays are not as important to older women as they are to everyone else.

[Myles]

6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Well, I equate it with sympathy because it was mentioned.   She is not a little girl.  Birthdays are not as important to older women as they are to everyone else.

Yeah, but it is good that she is spending her birthday in prison.