Epstein found Dead in Jail

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, determinism said:

Those making the allegations are liars motivated by financial gain.

So, are you saying there was no abuse or that the abuse doesn't matter because people are still making money off of it?

[determinism]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

So, are you saying there was no abuse or that the abuse doesn't matter because people are still making money off of it?

I'm saying those making the allegations are unreliable and motivated by compensation. Were any of these young girls abducted against their will into the mansions of socialites? They are not as innocent as they portray themselves. 

[+susieice]

13 minutes ago, determinism said:

I'm saying those making the allegations are unreliable and motivated by compensation. Were any of these young girls abducted against their will into the mansions of socialites? They are not as innocent as they portray themselves. 

For many, yes. It was against their will. I'm not sure you understand what sex trafficking is, which is what Epstein and Maxwell were doing. Andrew was never accused of that. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by susieice

[determinism]

4 minutes ago, susieice said:

For many, yes. It was against their will. I'm not sure you understand what sex trafficking is, which is what Epstein and Maxwell were doing. Andrew was never accused of that.

I didn't say Andrew was accused of that but are you saying violence was used to coerce these girls into providing massages for wealthy men? I can only comment on the woman who made the accusation against Andrew but from the photographic evidence she certainly doesn't look as if she was being held captive against her will.

Edited April 5, 2022 by determinism

[+susieice]

6 minutes ago, determinism said:

I didn't say Andrew was accused of that but are you saying violence was used to coerce these girls into providing massages for wealthy men? I can only comment on the woman who made the accusation against Andrew but from the photographic evidence she certainly doesn't look as if she was being held captive against her will.

Many were held on Little St James Island against their will, even by gunpoint. Other places too including the Zorro Ranch, Les Wexner's Ohio home and in other people's homes who were part of the trafficking ring.  I take you are talking about Virginia Guiffre. She was indeed trafficked by Maxwell and Epstein. There are 258 pages of evidence and links in this thread starting from when Epstein died. It's a lot of reading I know, but it's all in here.

Edited April 5, 2022 by susieice

[determinism]

20 minutes ago, susieice said:

Many were held on Little St James Island against their will, even by gunpoint. Other places too including the Zorro Ranch, Les Wexner's Ohio home and in other people's homes who were part of the trafficking ring.  I take you are talking about Virginia Guiffre. She was indeed trafficked by Maxwell and Epstein. There are 258 pages of evidence and links in this thread starting from when Epstein died. It's a lot of reading I know, but it's all in here.

Whatever the veracity of the claims about girls being held at gunpoint (dubious to say the least), Virginia Giuiffre was not as she was offered a job as a masseuse and presumably gladly accepted of her own volition. Why didn't she make a complaint to the authorities at the time? 

Edited April 5, 2022 by determinism

[+susieice]

15 minutes ago, determinism said:

Whatever the veracity of the claims about girls being held at gunpoint (dubious to say the least), Virginia Guiffre was not as she was offered a job as a masseuse and presumably gladly accepted of her own volition. Why didn't she make a complaint to the authorities at the time? 

I'm sorry. The girls' statements are in here along with the statements of witnesses. Guiffre filed a complaint as soon as she got away from them and settled a case with Maxwell in 2016. She also cooperated with the FBI investigation. Maxwell's next court case is that she lied in her depositions from that case.

None of this has anything to do with Andrew. He settled his case.

Edited April 5, 2022 by susieice

[determinism]

7 minutes ago, susieice said:

Guiffre filed a complaint as soon as she got away from them and settled a case with Maxwell in 2016. 

Have you got anything to prove that Virginia Giuffre filed a complaint before she was first contacted by the authorities investigating Epstein in 2007? 

Edited April 5, 2022 by determinism

[+Desertrat56]

50 minutes ago, determinism said:

I'm saying those making the allegations are unreliable and motivated by compensation. Were any of these young girls abducted against their will into the mansions of socialites? They are not as innocent as they portray themselves. 

Oh good lord!   If there is proof that these things happened, which there is based on the fact that people are in jail and others are being prosecuted, it doesn't matter if they are asking for compensation or not.   You must be a ripe misogynist to think it is possible for this kind of thing to blow up this big based on lies by women and girls who just want a pay off!   What planet are you on?   There are so many who have fallen through the cracks and will never get acknowledgment all over the world for a lot of reasons (some are dead, some are so damaged they can't get over it or so damaged they think they deserve the abuse).    

[+Desertrat56]

40 minutes ago, determinism said:

I didn't say Andrew was accused of that but are you saying violence was used to coerce these girls into providing massages for wealthy men? I can only comment on the woman who made the accusation against Andrew but from the photographic evidence she certainly doesn't look as if she was being held captive against her will.

Yes! Violence or at least instilling fear somehow, threats are violence, grooming a girl to willingly go with someone who intends harm (which is what Maxwell and others did) is violence.

[determinism]

Virginia Giuffre didn't file a lawsuit against Epstein and Maxwell until 2009, two years after she had been first contacted by the authorities investigating Epstein. It seems like an awfully long time to wait for something that was supposedly so traumatic. 

[determinism]

23 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

to think it is possible for this kind of thing to blow up this big based on lies by women and girls who just want a big pay off!   

That's exactly what I think. 

[+Desertrat56]

18 minutes ago, determinism said:

That's exactly what I think. 

Are you some sick person who thinks all men can do what they want and women have to like it or lump it?   If you think that is what this is about you either live in a cave or you are doing the same thing to women and justifying it as ok because they are just women, and women don't count, aren't human or what??? WHAT!   

[determinism]

27 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Are you some sick person who thinks all men can do what they want and women have to like it or lump it?   If you think that is what this is about you either live in a cave or you are doing the same thing to women and justifying it as ok because they are just women, and women don't count, aren't human or what??? WHAT!   

I don't know how you reach that conclusion. These women are opportunists who must have had some inkling at the time of what they were getting into. 

[+susieice]

26 minutes ago, determinism said:

I don't know how you reach that conclusion. These women are opportunists who must have had some inkling at the time of what they were getting into. 

They were groomed by adults at a very young age. Some as young as 12 and 14. It's easier to understand what happened to you when you get out from under the influence and look back when you are older. It takes some victims years to get up the nerve to speak out. That's why the laws changed allowing people to speak up about abuse until the age of 55. 

[+susieice]

2 hours ago, determinism said:

Have you got anything to prove that Virginia Giuffre filed a complaint before she was first contacted by the authorities investigating Epstein in 2007? 

There were several complaints made before then. Her and others. Parents also made complaints to the Palm Beach Police. That's what set off the whole investigation. I'm sorry but you need to read through the thread. I can't remember exactly where over 6,400 posts are.

I think you'll find it interesting just what all Maxwell and Epstein were into. Do you know anything about their backgrounds?

How about Ghislaine's father, Robert Maxwell? These waters run deep.

Edited April 5, 2022 by susieice

[determinism]

25 minutes ago, susieice said:

There were several complaints made before then. Her and others. Parents also made complaints to the Palm Beach Police. That's what set off the whole investigation. I'm sorry but you need to read through the thread. I can't remember exactly where over 6,400 posts are.

I think you'll find it interesting just what all Maxwell and Epstein were into. Do you know anything about their backgrounds?

How about Ghislaine's father, Robert Maxwell? These waters run deep.

I've read nothing which corroborates your assertion that Virginia Giuffre had any interest in pursuing a criminal case against Epstein until years after the event, no doubt prompted by the increasing media interest in the story. It was purportedly an initial phonecall from an FBI agent in 2007 which seems to have drawn Giuffre into the ongoing criminal proceedings. I don't see what the background of Epstein and Maxwell (both Jewish) has got to do with anything and I dislike the implication. 

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, determinism said:

I don't know how you reach that conclusion. These women are opportunists who must have had some inkling at the time of what they were getting into. 

So why was Jeffrey Epstien in jail, Why is Maxwell in jail, why did Prince Andrew settle out of court?  Obviously they had a legal, valid claims.   

Hey, did you know the world is almost a sphere, not flat?

Edited April 5, 2022 by Desertrat56

[+susieice]

2 minutes ago, determinism said:

I've read nothing which corroborates your assertion that Virginia Giuffre had any interest in pursuing a criminal case against Epstein until years after the event, no doubt prompted by the increasing media interest in the story. It was purportedly an initial phonecall from an FBI agent in 2007 which seems to have drawn Giuffre into the ongoing criminal proceedings. I don't see what the background of Epstein and Maxwell (both Jewish) has got to do with anything and I dislike the implication. 

You have a lot of reading to do. The fact that they're Jewish really isn't relevant. It's the things they were into. I really don't think you know much about what this case is about at all. The thread is here. It's entirely up to you.

You do know that the FBI warned Queen Elizabeth that Moscow may have compromising videos and pictures of Andrew in various mansions of Epstein's, right? Read and you'll learn why.

[+susieice]

3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

So why was Jeffrey Epstien in jail, Why is Maxwell in jail, why did Prince Andrew settle out of court?  Obviously they had a legal, valid claims.   

He's cold to the forum much less the thread. If he cares, he needs to read. Those of us who have been following all along know. Their claims are valid and proven.

Edited April 5, 2022 by susieice

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, susieice said:

He's cold to the forum much less the thread. If he cares, he needs to read. Those of us who have been following all along know. Their claims are valid and proven.

I am beginning to suspect he is just a troll and am going to add him to my long list of the ignored.

[+susieice]

22 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I am beginning to suspect he is just a troll and am going to add him to my long list of the ignored.

He's welcome to read the thread and learn the case and the whole background, but I'm not getting sucked into these arguments. He knows nothing at all about any of the investigations. Only what he wants to think.

Edited April 5, 2022 by susieice

[determinism]

None of the men Giuffre alleged she had sex with in her civil defamation case Virginia Giuffre vs. Ghislaine Maxwell have actually been convicted of any crime relating to the charges. Regardless of the merit the other accusers may or may not have, this woman is an opportunist. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by determinism

[+susieice]

16 minutes ago, determinism said:

None of the men Giuffre alleged she had sex with in her civil defamation case Virginia Giuffre vs. Ghislaine Maxwell have actually been convicted of any crime relating to the charges.

Don't think this doesn't upset me. They all need to be prosecuted. Same with the other victims.

US Courts, in my opinion, are protecting too many. There have been resignations from positions, but wealth and social standing shouldn't matter.

Edited April 5, 2022 by susieice

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

26 minutes ago, susieice said:

He's welcome to read the thread and learn the case and the whole background, but I'm not getting sucked into these arguments. He knows nothing at all about any of the investigations. Only what he wants to think.

He’s clearly Prince Andrew.