Epstein found Dead in Jail

[ScotDeerie]

2 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

I imagine a lot of things are "mind-boggling" to ol' Rudy.

You made me LOL. 

[Robotic Jew]

1 minute ago, ScotDeerie said:

The hyoid bone breaks in strangulation. Usually manual strangulation but perhaps ligature strangulation, too. Neck bones, however, are harder to break. Even professional hangings, with a good 6’+ drop from the platform, don’t always break the neck. This is very suspicious. I don’t understand how the coroner called his death “not suspicious” right after the autopsy.

I think this is just a case of people looking for "suspicious" things. 

https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/Epsteins-injuries-consistent-with-suicide-by-hanging-or-strangulation-WaPo-reports-544227061.html

An autopsy performed on Jeffrey Epstein showed he “sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones,” the Washington Post reported Wednesday.

Those familiar with the autopsy told the newspaper the broken bones included the hyoid bone, which is near the Adam’s apple.

Forensic experts told the post this kind of break can happen when a person hangs themselves or dies by strangulation.

[DieChecker]

2 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

I think this is just a case of people looking for "suspicious" things. 

https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/Epsteins-injuries-consistent-with-suicide-by-hanging-or-strangulation-WaPo-reports-544227061.html

An autopsy performed on Jeffrey Epstein showed he “sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones,” the Washington Post reported Wednesday.

Those familiar with the autopsy told the newspaper the broken bones included the hyoid bone, which is near the Adam’s apple.

Forensic experts told the post this kind of break can happen when a person hangs themselves or dies by strangulation.

One article I read said a study in Thailand (20 cases) showed it was 50% likely. But another study done in India (2000 cases I think) showed only a 6% chance.

So it can happen... 

[DieChecker]

9 minutes ago, ScotDeerie said:

The hyoid bone breaks in strangulation. Usually manual strangulation but perhaps ligature strangulation, too. Neck bones, however, are harder to break. Even professional hangings, with a good 6’+ drop from the platform, don’t always break the neck. This is very suspicious. I don’t understand how the coroner called his death “not suspicious” right after the autopsy.

 

Found this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2019/08/jeffrey-epstein-hyoid-bone-broken-neck/amp/

I was wondering about the "multiple bones". If those included vertebra? If so, then it may look more like a murder then a suicide??

[ScotDeerie]

5 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

 

Forensic experts told the post this kind of break can happen when a person hangs themselves or dies by strangulation.

But what kind of hanging? With a thick rope thrown over a tree branch when the person’s feet don’t touch the ground? What’s the most efficient hanging Epstein could manage with some cloth (assuming here) and perhaps a bunk bed? There couldn’t have been much of a drop or strips of fabric wouldn’t have held.

[ScotDeerie]

3 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I was wondering about the "multiple bones". If those included vertebra? If so, then it may look more like a murder then a suicide??

I can’t think of any other bones of consequence in the neck. Maybe he tied a noose around his neck and dove off the top bunk? I find this suspicious and up until right now I believed it was a straight up suicide.

[ScotDeerie]

8 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

One article I read said a study in Thailand (20 cases) showed it was 50% likely. But another study done in India (2000 cases I think) showed only a 6% chance.

So it can happen... 

But those statistics include all hangings. You have to match the circumstances for a fair comparison. How many of those suicides did it with limited ligature material in a room where the highest object to suspend the body might have been 5-8’? 

[DieChecker]

17 minutes ago, ScotDeerie said:

I can’t think of any other bones of consequence in the neck. Maybe he tied a noose around his neck and dove off the top bunk? I find this suspicious and up until right now I believed it was a straight up suicide.

I can imagine it being suicide, but just barely. Maybe the report will have more coming out latter?

[DieChecker]

14 minutes ago, ScotDeerie said:

But those statistics include all hangings. You have to match the circumstances for a fair comparison. How many of those suicides did it with limited ligature material in a room where the highest object to suspend the body might have been 5-8’? 

Very true. Maybe some experts will weigh in with non-spin facts?

[Robotic Jew]

25 minutes ago, ScotDeerie said:

But what kind of hanging? With a thick rope thrown over a tree branch when the person’s feet don’t touch the ground? What’s the most efficient hanging Epstein could manage with some cloth (assuming here) and perhaps a bunk bed? There couldn’t have been much of a drop or strips of fabric wouldn’t have held.

There doesn't have to be a drop. He didn't hang himself from the ceiling more than likely. It was probably a tie and lean scenario(as a lot of hangings actually are). Your feet don't have to be dangling above the ground to kill yourself by hanging. You still get the full weight being held up and adding pressure to the neck/throat area making it very plausible for bones to break. 

[ScotDeerie]

7 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

There doesn't have to be a drop. He didn't hang himself from the ceiling more than likely. It was probably a tie and lean scenario(as a lot of hangings actually are). Your feet don't have to be dangling above the ground to kill yourself by hanging. You still get the full weight being held up and adding pressure to the neck/throat area making it very plausible for bones to break. 

Yes, I understand ligature strangulation. As far as I could find, so far, it doesn't break neck bones, however. I referenced the drop because to get broken bones in the neck, there has to be force involved. And, as I said, those breaks don't even happen in professional hangings sometimes.

[ScotDeerie]

17 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I can imagine it being suicide, but just barely. Maybe the report will have more coming out latter?

Let's hope so but I'm not seeing a lot of transparency in our government lately. Right now they will be waiting on blood and tissue test results and that can take a few weeks.

[ScotDeerie]

I'm still not entirely clear if there was just the broken hyoid bone (US News) or multiple bone fractures (Washington Post). I don't know if that's sloppy reporting or if some reports are just zeroing in on the hyoid.  One statistic I did see was that a broken hyoid happens in 20% of hanging and 50% of manual strangulation cases. The thing is, often in cases of manual strangulation (when dealing with decomposed bodies/skeletal remains) there are NO other broken bones in the neck. The only indication of what happened is finding that broken hyoid bone. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by ScotDeerie
tea with milk and sugar

[+susieice]

1 hour ago, ScotDeerie said:

But what kind of hanging? With a thick rope thrown over a tree branch when the person’s feet don’t touch the ground? What’s the most efficient hanging Epstein could manage with some cloth (assuming here) and perhaps a bunk bed? There couldn’t have been much of a drop or strips of fabric wouldn’t have held.

Reminded me of Robin Williams who had used a closet doorknob. I won't link his autopsy report out of respect. It's an easy enough google search. His report says his hyoid bone and neck cartilage were unbroken but again, he could just be in the percentage where it simply didn't happen. The breaking of bones though, that sounds like cervical vertebrae and that's got me wondering. I was convinced it was suicide. Now, not so much really.

Edit to add: Williams used a belt.

Edited August 15, 2019 by susieice

[Big Jim]

His former cell mate looked like he could break some bones.  He could have been transferred out as a cover and then brought back in for a minute.

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, Big Jim said:

His former cell mate looked like he could break some bones.  He could have been transferred out as a cover and then brought back in for a minute.

That cellmate told his attorneys that he knows what happened as he was only a few cells away when Epstein died. It's linked here in the thread somewhere. I wonder if he's being questioned about that.

[ScotDeerie]

9 minutes ago, susieice said:

Reminded me of Robin Williams who had used a closet doorknob. I won't link his autopsy report out of respect. It's an easy enough google search. His report says his hyoid bone and neck cartilage were unbroken but again, he could just be in the percentage where it simply didn't happen. The breaking of bones though, that sounds like cervical vertebrae and that's got me wondering. I was convinced it was suicide. Now, not so much really.

Edit to add: Williams used a belt.

The hyoid isn't easy to break. For one thing, it's protected by the mandible. It's seen in strangulation more often because the killer's two thumbs are pressing up and under the jaw.  And you're right.  Broken vertebrae... ?wtf??   I'm starting to suspect this wasn't suicide, either. And it takes a lot to make me believe in scenarios that didn't seem plausible.

[ScotDeerie]

7 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

His former cell mate looked like he could break some bones.  He could have been transferred out as a cover and then brought back in for a minute.

Did you SEE that guy? They said he was a caricature of every cellmate you never wanted to have in jail. He had muscles on top of muscles. And he was a killer so he was never getting out of jail anyway...

Edited August 15, 2019 by ScotDeerie

[Big Jim]

4 minutes ago, ScotDeerie said:

Did you SEE that guy? They said he was a caricature of every cellmate you never wanted to have in jail. He had muscles on top of muscles. And he was a killer so he was never getting out of jail anyway...

Exactly.  "Oh, I just came back to get this T shirt I left behind" Snap!  "See ya later".

[ScotDeerie]

19 minutes ago, susieice said:

That cellmate told his attorneys that he knows what happened as he was only a few cells away when Epstein died. It's linked here in the thread somewhere. I wonder if he's being questioned about that.

How much can you trust an ex-cop/killer though? He hasn't gone to trial yet so he may being trying to bargain against the death penalty hanging over his head.

Corrected to clarify: He was an ex-cop who turned quadruple killer. NOT a cop-killer.  I wrote that wrong.

Edited August 15, 2019 by ScotDeerie
not enough tea yet

[ScotDeerie]

Just now, Big Jim said:

Exactly.  "Oh, I just came back to get this T shirt I left behind" Snap!  "See ya later".

I can't imagine it's all that easy to stroll around a prison, though. And that guy they would have kept on lock-down for sure. If he could get out of his cell and into someone else's that easily there is a LOT wrong in that prison. A LOT.  

[+susieice]

Just now, ScotDeerie said:

How much can you trust an ex-cop cop-killer though? He hasn't gone to trial yet so he may being trying to bargain against the death penalty hanging over his head.

I don't know. Supposedly after the first attempt Epstein told his lawyers that this guy attacked him. The cellmate and his attorneys denied it. Could be why he was removed from the cell with Epstein. I saw where the inmates around Epstein's cell are being interviewed. I don't know how much you can trust any of them as Epstein likely was a golden child of a target. He had to be moved out of general population for that reason. 

[ScotDeerie]

Interesting RECENT story about Epstein's original roommate. He was found with a phone in his cell in late July.

  https://www.recordonline.com/news/20190722/illicit-phone-found-in-cell-of-ex-cop-charged-in-quadruple-homicide

[aztek]

Jeffrey Epstein's Autopsy Reportedly Shows Multiple Broken Neck Bones

 The paper, citing two people familiar with the report’s finding, said Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones, including his hyoid bone — a horseshoe-shaped bone which in men is located near the Adam’s apple.

“Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject,” the Post reported. “But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jeffrey-epstein-autopsy-broken-neck-hyoid-bone-093723224.html

[Big Jim]

35 minutes ago, ScotDeerie said:

I can't imagine it's all that easy to stroll around a prison, though. And that guy they would have kept on lock-down for sure. If he could get out of his cell and into someone else's that easily there is a LOT wrong in that prison. A LOT.  

I'm not suggesting that he was strolling around the prison on his own, but that he was used as the means by insiders who wanted the job done.  The kind of money, power and connections that the people with the most to lose have can move mountains.  Also, prisoners can be bribed very cheaply, say a couple cartons of cigarettes or a few extra privileges.  (like that phone, for instance)

Edited August 15, 2019 by Big Jim