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Gwynbleidd

Epstein found Dead in Jail

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Gwynbleidd
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tiggs said:

Not least because Epstein's jet was a Boeing 727, which can seat upwards of 150 people -- and expecting someone to squeeze all of those names into a single line entry seems wildly optimistic, even for the Federal Government.

Have you had a look at the Pilot's Deposition as yet @Tiggs?  

You can read it in it's entirety by going to page 245 through this link >>> https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6250856-EpsteinDepositions.html

They question the Pilot David Rodgers about the line items of the logs, the initials, what they meant, why they're recorded as initials, where they flew to, why, what for, when, all that type of questioning, even the different plane types, guests etc.  

Poor Tiggs will feel overwhelmed with info overload if we keep doing this to him! :lol:

Oh well, at least we'll all be in the same boat then LOL

Edited by pixiii
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Tiggs
9 minutes ago, pixiii said:

Have you had a look at the Pilot's Deposition as yet @Tiggs?  

You can read it in it's entirety by going to page 245 through this link >>> https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6250856-EpsteinDepositions.html

They question the Pilot David Rodgers about the line items of the logs, the initials, what they meant, why they're recorded as initials, where they flew to, why, what for, when, all that type of questioning, even the different plane types, guests etc.  

No, I hadn't dived that deep yet. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

From an initial read, it seems that the pilot testifies that Clinton actually was accompanied by Secret Service on the dates that Fox claims there was no Secret Service listed for.

Check out page 309 - 310. For the dates in question -- the women listed in his log as Janice and Jessica are both Secret Service agents, according to the pilot. He also says that there were 6-7 other agents present, that he didn't note in his log.

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Michelle
1 hour ago, Tiggs said:

You'll perhaps note that there's no FAA requirement for the pilot to list the passengers on each flight, in those logbooks -- let alone guarantee that the list is accurate.

When people are flying especially internationally, even on a private plane, they have to go through airport security. If there is a crash they want to identify the people as quickly as possible. There is a trail.

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Tiggs
2 minutes ago, Michelle said:

When people are flying especially internationally, even on a private plane, they have to go through airport security. If there is a crash they want to identify the people as quickly as possible. There is a trail.

Absolutely.

It's just not necessarily one you'd find by looking at a pilot's logbook. See my last post, for details.

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Gwynbleidd
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

No, I hadn't dived that deep yet. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

From an initial read, it seems that the pilot testifies that Clinton actually was accompanied by Secret Service on the dates that Fox claims there was no Secret Service listed for.

Check out page 309 - 310. For the dates in question -- the women listed in his log as Janice and Jessica are both Secret Service agents, according to the pilot. He also says that there were 6-7 other agents present, that he didn't note in his log.

You're most welcome and yes this is why I tried to find a whole bunch of news media for those original sources as Fox can be too right wing sometimes, like CNN can be too left wing.  It doesn't change the fact that the SS did not reply to Fox so they could verify those logs and whether any SS were on board. 

Personally, I think if Clinton or anyone else for that matter, is guilty of being on the island, the authorities have probably already got the evidence they need.  It'd be a matter of putting it altogether now.  I don't think logs being released are going to help matters any further, except let people like ourselves know that those individuals flew on the plane at a certain time with so-and-so.  Like you said, it's pretty vague, but I can see how it was worth it as evidence of proof Virginia Roberts flew on the plane for her case against Maxwell.

There are rumours there is footage from under the tunnels on the island taken with phones which allegedly incriminates a multitude of people.  But it's only rumours.  I think there are people that wouldn't believe their eyes if they saw something anyway - much like ghost pics, everyone has an opinion, skeptics vs believers.  

I will say one of the most awful pics was of the security footage from Epstein's island taken by Rachel Chandler (also photographed with BC).  Although, once that photo from her instagram feed became "noticed" by the public, she changed it to private.  But it appears to have children or little people, definitely not adults that look to be naked sitting on top of upside-down buckets.  That's just absurd at first glance, then it becomes rather shocking after thinking...what were those kids doing there?

Edit: Sorry I just realised I went off on a tangent - I meant Fox couldn't actually "verify" the records that Clinton actually ditched his SS detail because the SS did not reply to confirm. 

Edited by pixiii
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Gwynbleidd
Posted (edited)

Wow Clinton really traveled with quite the entourage of SS agents didn't he! :lol:  Yes I see on page 310 onwards @Tiggs Rodgers only put the female agent's names as he figured it was easier to remember them, than the other 7 male agents he implied were on-board.  That's perfectly understandable really.  The Pilot has enough on his mind without having to memorise a bunch of random people getting on-board......except as @Michelle mentioned, if they were going international - you'd think it was the Law in case the plane crashed.  

Looks like another guy, the lead SS guy was named Mike.  

Anyway, it's kinda pointless to speculate whether or not Clinton was on the flights WITH SS detail or not because I'd imagine the courts would demand the SS to submit records for that if he was to be prosecuted in some way?  I could be wrong, just surmising. :) 

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Gwynbleidd

Just on a different topic re Epstein and the possible MOSSAD connection.....

I've just got to say this, I've literally never met a Jewish person in my entire life, do you guys have heaps and heaps of Jewish people there or something?  The ones with the little caps on their heads might be different, sorry I'm not familiar with it.

These 3 pics make up one photo - sorry I didn't know how to put it all as 1 photo

https://imgur.com/TdV9BNm

https://imgur.com/qsnZ1df

https://imgur.com/eaWdjUo

 

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Michelle
12 minutes ago, pixiii said:

except as @Michelle mentioned, if they were going international - you'd think it was the Law in case the plane crashed. 

Not to mention having passports being checked.

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Captain Risky
8 hours ago, Big Jim said:

It's just my opinion, but it doesn't seem right that the President can dismiss SS protection, except in places that are already guarded, such as the White House.  His protection is not just for his own safety but to protect the country from the trauma and trouble of losing a President.  If he can just dismiss them at a whim then anyone with evil on their mind can get to him.  Just entice him with whatever he can't resist and convince him that he doesn't need the SS on this trip and then you can do whatever you want with no interference at all.  Kill him, torture him for information, bribe him for action, whatever.  

Yes I agree the president is a national asset and as such I thought immune from having the authority to dismiss agents. I guess not. So there must be a reason for Trump to go against the better judgement of a non partisan professional service. My bet he doesn’t wanna he overheard.

I would have also thought that using Twitter sends more information to would be attackers and foreign services to his location and what he’s thinking. Surely publishing your whereabouts and by-passing the state Department and security services would constitute a national threat.

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Michelle
5 minutes ago, pixiii said:

I've just got to say this, I've literally never met a Jewish person in my entire life, do you guys have heaps and heaps of Jewish people there or something?  The ones with the little caps on their heads might be different, sorry I'm not familiar with it.

In my area we do. They don't stand out because they look and dress the same as everyone else. Working in a restaurant for many years. every year around Christmas, I automatically wished everyone a Merry Christmas. The people I didn't know were Jewish would respond with Happy Hanukkah. There was kind of a wink and a nod and we both understood we had good intentions. I always remembered them and wished them a Happy Hanukkah the next time.

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Captain Risky
3 hours ago, aztek said:

cool story, 

almost sounds like JE wanted to create superior humans on the farm,  with his dna, hence babies, and with scientists , biologists, ,,,,,,,,,etc, help, make it happen, for some secret society, he was a member of.  maybe elite's plan is to create and breed such humans,  as replacement to our race,  and when succeeded, kill off the rest of genetically inferior humans..  keep population under 500m, they can create perfect world, in which they'll use suppressed tech to cure diseases, get free energy,  with good population control in place, live thousands of years, travel galaxies, and do sht we can't imagine.  

 

 

Strangely he named a gene editing biotech investor as one of the executors of his will.

thats all this world needs... a clone world of Jeffery Epstein. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
10 minutes ago, pixiii said:

Just on a different topic re Epstein and the possible MOSSAD connection.....

I've just got to say this, I've literally never met a Jewish person in my entire life, do you guys have heaps and heaps of Jewish people there or something?  The ones with the little caps on their heads might be different, sorry I'm not familiar with it.

These 3 pics make up one photo - sorry I didn't know how to put it all as 1 photo

https://imgur.com/TdV9BNm

https://imgur.com/qsnZ1df

https://imgur.com/eaWdjUo

 

You can't cut and paste this stuff so, manually I go:

"During Epstein's previous case in 2008, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, who handles the case, Alex Acosta stated he was told Epstein 'belongs to intelligence and to leave him alone' ".

Important Epstein contacts, Edward de Rothschild and Ehud Barak, the former PM of Israel…
Barak is a major partner with Epstein and Wexner.  (Wexner gave Epstein the Lolita Express B727)

Epstein was working as an intelligence agent for Mossad in all reality. (the article on page 2 expands on that statement)
----------------------

 

I think it's quite ponderable that yes, Epstein was a Mossad asset. That means Ghislaine is safe.

 

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Tiggs
3 hours ago, pixiii said:

You're most welcome and yes this is why I tried to find a whole bunch of news media for those original sources as Fox can be too right wing sometimes, like CNN can be too left wing.  It doesn't change the fact that the SS did not reply to Fox so they could verify those logs and whether any SS were on board. 

Personally, I think if Clinton or anyone else for that matter, is guilty of being on the island, the authorities have probably already got the evidence they need.  It'd be a matter of putting it altogether now.  I don't think logs being released are going to help matters any further, except let people like ourselves know that those individuals flew on the plane at a certain time with so-and-so.  Like you said, it's pretty vague, but I can see how it was worth it as evidence of proof Virginia Roberts flew on the plane for her case against Maxwell.

In this particular case -- the notes from the pilot's logbook are contemporary evidence of who the pilot noted was on the plane, but as his testimony shows -- it wasn't always a full list of all of the passengers.

Which -- as I've said -- is fine, because there's no legal requirement for him to have made any notes about passengers, at all.

Quite honestly -- we're fortunate he noted down the ones he did.

In short -- those notes are strong evidence of who was definitely on the plane, but not necessarily a definitive list of everyone who was there.

As for Fox asking the Secret Service for verification -- it's unusual to refuse a valid FOIA request, as it opens the Government up to lawsuits, for non-compliance. I'd really have to see the FOIA requests Fox made, to comment further -- and I suspect they're not available to the public.
 

3 hours ago, pixiii said:

There are rumours there is footage from under the tunnels on the island taken with phones which allegedly incriminates a multitude of people.  But it's only rumours.  I think there are people that wouldn't believe their eyes if they saw something anyway - much like ghost pics, everyone has an opinion, skeptics vs believers.  

I will say one of the most awful pics was of the security footage from Epstein's island taken by Rachel Chandler (also photographed with BC).  Although, once that photo from her instagram feed became "noticed" by the public, she changed it to private.  But it appears to have children or little people, definitely not adults that look to be naked sitting on top of upside-down buckets.  That's just absurd at first glance, then it becomes rather shocking after thinking...what were those kids doing there?

You're way ahead of me. First time I've heard of Rachel Chandler.
 

2 hours ago, pixiii said:

Wow Clinton really traveled with quite the entourage of SS agents didn't he! :lol:  Yes I see on page 310 onwards @Tiggs Rodgers only put the female agent's names as he figured it was easier to remember them, than the other 7 male agents he implied were on-board.  That's perfectly understandable really.  The Pilot has enough on his mind without having to memorise a bunch of random people getting on-board......except as @Michelle mentioned, if they were going international - you'd think it was the Law in case the plane crashed.  

Believe there's a requirement for an official passenger manifest to be logged at the airport, prior to departure -- along with the flight plans -- partly for that purpose.

That manifest should be an accurate list of all passengers, including passport numbers, etc.

Pilot logbooks, however, are carried around by the pilot. They're a completely different thing.

As you can imagine -- possibly the worst place to keep the definitive list of passengers in the event of an air accident is on the plane that's just been in said accident.

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LucidElement
Posted (edited)

Can anyone help me find the article where Epstein was talking to (I believe his lawyer) and he was comparing his actions to  Asian massages, and comparing it to Robert Krafts scenario.. totally downplayed his life’s events. 

Edited by LucidElement
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LucidElement
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, LucidElement said:

Can anyone help me find the article where Epstein was talking to (I believe his lawyer) and he was discussing his actions as getting Asian massages, and comparing it to Robert Krafts scenario.... I resemble it briefly but the way he downplayed his “Life events” in conversation was beyond.

Found it. I’m sure many have read it but for those who haven’t , lets take a minute . He thought being called a pedophile was like being called a hedge fund manager. I honestly am starting to think Epstein never categorized himself in his own head as a pedophile? 

link: https://nypost.com/2019/08/13/jeffrey-epstein-compared-himself-to-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-reporter/

Edited by LucidElement
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susieice
3 hours ago, Tiggs said:

So everyone keeps telling me.

My question is -- what's the evidence for those claims?

If it's just a single handwritten entry in the memo field of the pilot's logbook -- where at least two of the names are largely unreadable -- then that's not particularly compelling, IMO.

What I haven't seen is any eyewitness accounts that Clinton arrived/stayed at any of the destinations (Hong Kong, China, Singapore, Thailand, Brunei) unaccompanied

Nor have I seen anyone produce the necessary form Clinton would have had to register, to decline their protection for any extended period.

Or any confirmation from the Secret Service that this actually happened.

I'd happily accept any of those as confirmation that he did travel without them. I just haven't seen anyone provide those, currently.
 

Again -- on the basis of what evidence?
 

My opinion is that Secret Service agents would tend to tell the truth in court, under oath -- so they're the last people you'd probably want around if you're about to commit something illegal.

There's a reason, after all, why we're discussing whether Clinton was unaccompanied, or not.
 

It is evidence. I just don't think it's strong enough, on its own, to prove that Clinton was unaccompanied by Secret Service. Even the Fox article you've linked hedges its claim, using the word "apparently".
 

A court case was filed in 2016 accusing Trump and Epstein of both raping the same underage girl, where they (allegedly) argued about who should go first.

I'd like to think we'd all take a careful look at the strength of the evidence for that, too, before breaking out the torches and pitchforks.
 

Says me, after looking at the form.

In order to maintain a current pilot's license, the aviation authorities require that a pilot logs a minimum number of hours per year in the air.

Looking at the column names on that form -- it's fairly obvious to me that's what that form is capturing, rather than being an official passenger manifest for a single plane.

Not least because Epstein's jet was a Boeing 727, which can seat upwards of 150 people -- and expecting someone to squeeze all of those names into a single line entry seems wildly optimistic, even for the Federal Government.

I'm out of my league here Tiggs, but if people were flying on Epstein's flights to other countries, wouldn't the pilots have to file a flight plan and a passenger manifest? They would still be required to have passports and other information with them for immigration on arrival, even if they come in on a private flight. I recall seeing some of the girls saying Ghislaine took their passports from them which, if they weren't US citizens, they would need to get back into the country and even the Virgin Islands unless they landed right on Little St James and authorities didn't know they were there. Wouldn't taking an underage person out of the country for the purposes intended also be a crime? Can't find straight answers to these questions.

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susieice
55 minutes ago, pixiii said:

Just on a different topic re Epstein and the possible MOSSAD connection.....

I've just got to say this, I've literally never met a Jewish person in my entire life, do you guys have heaps and heaps of Jewish people there or something?  The ones with the little caps on their heads might be different, sorry I'm not familiar with it.

These 3 pics make up one photo - sorry I didn't know how to put it all as 1 photo

https://imgur.com/TdV9BNm

https://imgur.com/qsnZ1df

https://imgur.com/eaWdjUo

 

I have Jewish friends pixiii. They look just like me. When they are at the synagogue it may be different but I don't really think so.

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susieice
29 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

In this particular case -- the notes from the pilot's logbook are contemporary evidence of who the pilot noted was on the plane, but as his testimony shows -- it wasn't always a full list of all of the passengers.

Which -- as I've said -- is fine, because there's no legal requirement for him to have made any notes about passengers, at all.

Quite honestly -- we're fortunate he noted down the ones he did.

In short -- those notes are strong evidence of who was definitely on the plane, but not necessarily a definitive list of everyone who was there.

As for Fox asking the Secret Service for verification -- it's unusual to refuse a valid FOIA request, as it opens the Government up to lawsuits, for non-compliance. I'd really have to see the FOIA requests Fox made, to comment further -- and I suspect they're not available to the public.
 

You're way ahead of me. First time of heard of Rachel Chandler.
 

Believe there's a requirement for an official passenger manifest to be logged at the airport, prior to departure -- along with the flight plans -- partly for that purpose.

That manifest should be an accurate list of all passengers, including passport numbers, etc.

Pilot logbooks, however, are carried around by the pilot. They're a completely different thing.

As you can imagine -- possibly the worst place to keep the definitive list of passengers in the event of an air accident is on the plane that's just been in said accident.

Just saw this Tiggs. So they do have to file a passenger manifest and all the passport numbers?

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Gwynbleidd
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Michelle said:

In my area we do. They don't stand out because they look and dress the same as everyone else. Working in a restaurant for many years. every year around Christmas, I automatically wished everyone a Merry Christmas. The people I didn't know were Jewish would respond with Happy Hanukkah. There was kind of a wink and a nod and we both understood we had good intentions. I always remembered them and wished them a Happy Hanukkah the next time.

Good point Michelle, I think perhaps when I thought of Jewish people, I think of the little hats some Jewish people wear in the movies and tv shows.  But I don't think all Jewish people wear those, so for all I know, my neighbour could be Jewish and just doesn't wear a little hat! :D  Oh that's lovely about the Happy Hanukkah and Merry Christmas. I actually just learnt what Hanukkah meant by your post! Thankyou! :lol:

Edited by pixiii
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susieice
1 minute ago, pixiii said:

Good point Michelle, I think perhaps when I thought of Jewish people, I think of the little hats some Jewish people wear in the movies and tv shows.  But I don't think all Jewish people wear those, so for all I know, my neighbour could be Jewish and just doesn't wear a little hat! :D  Oh that's lovely about the Happy Hanukkah and Merry Christmas. I actually just learn what Hanukkah meant by your post! Thankyou! :lol:

Here's what Hanukkah is pixiii. It occurs around the same time as Christmas but is a whole different celebration. They don't celebrate the birth of Christ as they view him as a prophet and not the messiah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanukkah

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Gwynbleidd
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, susieice said:

Here's what Hanukkah is pixiii. It occurs around the same time as Christmas but is a whole different celebration. They don't celebrate the birth of Christ as they view him as a prophet and not the messiah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanukkah

LOL thanks Susie and Michelle - I'll be an expert on Jewish holidays by the time this whole Epstein saga is done!  Yes I think I was far too influenced by the movie "jewish look" that's portrayed! :lol:

Edited by pixiii
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Michelle
4 minutes ago, pixiii said:

Good point Michelle, I think perhaps when I thought of Jewish people, I think of the little hats some Jewish people wear in the movies and tv shows.  But I don't think all Jewish people wear those, so for all I know, my neighbour could be Jewish and just doesn't wear a little hat! :D  Oh that's lovely about the Happy Hanukkah and Merry Christmas. I actually just learn what Hanukkah meant by your post! Thankyou! :lol:

Like everything else, there are different sects. I think it's the more Orthodox you have been seeing in the movies. ;)

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Tiggs
1 minute ago, susieice said:

Just saw this Tiggs. So they do have to file a passenger manifest and all the passport numbers?

Believe that’s generally the case. Would have to do some research to see whether all countries adhered to it, back in 2002, though.

Also suspect that retention time of those records will vary depending on the various airports involved.

 

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Gwynbleidd
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LucidElement said:

Found it. I’m sure many have read it but for those who haven’t , lets take a minute . He thought being called a pedophile was like being called a hedge fund manager. I honestly am starting to think Epstein never categorized himself in his own head as a pedophile? 

link: https://nypost.com/2019/08/13/jeffrey-epstein-compared-himself-to-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-reporter/

Oh my!  Like he!! he wasn't a pedophile...delusional man he was. 

Epstein claimed that he wasn’t the pervert portrayed in news accounts, telling Gasparino, “I just want you to know I’m not a pedophile.”

“Maybe the only thing worse than being called a pedophile is being called a hedge fund manager,” the multimillionaire financier added with a slight laugh.

Is this why Epstein is never seen smiling with his lips open?  Fake or Not?

 

1566294053765.jpg

Edited by pixiii
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Gwynbleidd
Posted (edited)

Btw, some people have found an old picture (top left) of Epstein at the Boys High School Cabin/Camp at the Interlochen Center for the Arts in MI.  He donated money to them in the late 90's through to the 2000's.  This photo is Epstein in 1967.

Epstein (top left) at Boys High School Cabin Interlochen Center for the Arts MI

 

Btw that female coming out of the door and Prince Andrew is doing a little British toodle-loo wave to her is ex Australian Prime Minister Keating's daughter!  Looking into her connections as she's chummy with Ghislaine, surprise surprise! :lol:

Edited by pixiii
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