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Scudbuster

A Universe Not Made For Us

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Scudbuster

The weak origins of religion, the perpetuation of lies and deceptions along the way, humans metaphorically shooting themselves in the foot all these years, etc  - Carl Sagan simply hits it out of the park in this video: 

 

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papageorge1

I have never seen much to suggest that Carl Sagan knew much about broader-minded religious thinking.

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Jodie.Lynne
23 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Carl Sagan knew much about broader-minded religious thinking.

Please define what you mean by "broader minded religious thinking".

Does not a religion have certain guidelines and strictures, that the faithful must adhere to in order to be considered 'faithful'?

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papageorge1
2 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Please define what you mean by "broader minded religious thinking".

Does not a religion have certain guidelines and strictures, that the faithful must adhere to in order to be considered 'faithful'?

I said ‘religious thinking’ or ‘spiritual beliefs’ that do not see the universe as designed for humans.

For example, my spiritual beliefs in Advaita Vedanta (inside the umbrella of Hinduism) does not see  ‘A Universe Made for Us’.

I think this attacks only the weaklings. To paraphrase philosopher Ken Wilber: narrow science trumps narrow religion but broader religious-scientific thought can trump both.

 

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Jodie.Lynne
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

I said ‘religious thinking’ or ‘spiritual beliefs’ that do not see the universe as designed for humans.

For example, my spiritual beliefs in Advaita Vedanta (inside the umbrella of Hinduism) does not see  ‘A Universe Made for Us’.

I think this attacks only the weaklings. To paraphrase philosopher Ken Wilber: narrow science trumps narrow religion but broader religious-scientific thought can trump both.

 

But, if I may, the universe is NOT designed for humans. By hela, even this planet is not "designed" for us.

There is a fractionally small percentage of the planet where we could exist without either protective layers of clothing, or habitation. And even in those locales, the sun can create lethal melanomas in unprotected skin that lacks pigmentation.

 

But you haven't defined what a "broader religious thinking" is other than to state that your belief system agrees that the universe is hostile to the human lifeform.

And what, exactly, is "attacking only the weaklings"?.

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Will Due

 

"The universe is NOT designed for humans" is true.

But humans were designed for the universe, insofar as each individual chooses to make those adjustments necessary for them to become what is required of them.

 

 

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papageorge1
37 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

But, if I may, the universe is NOT designed for humans. By hela, even this planet is not "designed" for us.

There is a fractionally small percentage of the planet where we could exist without either protective layers of clothing, or habitation. And even in those locales, the sun can create lethal melanomas in unprotected skin that lacks pigmentation.

No one is doubting any of that.

37 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

But you haven't defined what a "broader religious thinking" is other than to state that your belief system agrees that the universe is hostile to the human lifeform.

Broader religious thinking is not bound by dogmatic creationist theories like those being attacked in the video.

 

39 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

And what, exactly, is "attacking only the weaklings"?.

Attacking those with dogmatic creationist thinking and a human-centric view of the universe.

 

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Jodie.Lynne
5 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Attacking those with dogmatic creationist thinking and a human-centric view of the universe.

Ah, I think I see.

Creationist thinking, a la the Abrahamic religions, do state that humanity is the centre of all creation. "And god created man, in his own image..." , which leads one to believe that all creation is there for the disposal of humankind. Because mankind is sooooo special.

But, what is "broader religious thinking"? What does it encompass, and what makes you believe that it is in any way, more correct than the Abrahamic religions?

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

By hela,

A hidden Norse reference?

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Jodie.Lynne
1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

A hidden Norse reference?

Not so hidden.... ;)

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Will Due
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

There is no evidence that points to humans being designed

 

But if you've chosen to believe that there's no evidence that points to humans being designed, there always will remain the evidence of what a person has chosen to design themselves to be.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Hammerclaw

We are star-stuff, the Universe come alive and aware of itself.

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Habitat
6 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

But, what is "broader religious thinking"? What does it encompass, and what makes you believe that it is in any way, more correct than the Abrahamic religions?

There's your whole problem right there, you are so fixated on doing a demolition job on organized religion, you haven't bothered to look beyond the retail, mass market end. 

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Pettytalk
16 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Ah, I think I see.

Creationist thinking, a la the Abrahamic religions, do state that humanity is the centre of all creation. "And god created man, in his own image..." , which leads one to believe that all creation is there for the disposal of humankind. Because mankind is sooooo special.

But, what is "broader religious thinking"? What does it encompass, and what makes you believe that it is in any way, more correct than the Abrahamic religions?

Logic and ego both say that, until something comes along that can easily make us their food source, as we do the whole population of the things we dine on, then I say that it's futile and ridiculous to suggest that the earth, and even the entire physical universe was not made for us Humans.

 

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Scudbuster
59 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Logic and ego both say that, until something comes along that can easily make us their food source, as we do the whole population of the things we dine on, then I say that it's futile and ridiculous to suggest that the earth, and even the entire physical universe was not made for us Humans.

 

 Just the opposite is true - 99.99% of the existing universe is instant death for us humans.

 It was not made for us, however this little sliver of oxygen, carbon, and water and other key elements has allowed us to evolve and flourish.

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cormac mac airt
12 hours ago, Habitat said:

There's your whole problem right there, you are so fixated on doing a demolition job on organized religion, you haven't bothered to look beyond the retail, mass market end. 

So, Jodie asked a question that you can't answer, cool. 

cormac

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
2 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Logic and ego both say that, until something comes along that can easily make us their food source, as we do the whole population of the things we dine on, then I say that it's futile and ridiculous to suggest that the earth, and even the entire physical universe was not made for us Humans.

 

If the universe was made for humans, why did it take 13,7 billions years before we got there? 

Why was the Earth itself uninhaitable for humans for the first 4 billion years of its life ? 

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XenoFish

We are a cosmic accident and religion is an existential band-aid. 

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spartan max2

If it was designed for us then it was designed to kill us :lol: lol

That's what it seems it is always trying to do.

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cormac mac airt
53 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

If the universe was made for humans, why did it take 13,7 billions years before we got there? 

Why was the Earth itself uninhaitable for humans for the first 4 billion years of its life ? 

It was waiting for something as egotistical as a human being to come along and pretend they were the be all/end all of the cosmos. :w00t:

cormac

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South Alabam

It didn't have to be made for us. Yet, here we are with around 1,000,000 other known species on this planet.

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lightly

I guess "design" Implies thought ?  I was thinking the other day. . . About flowers being colorful and fragrant to attract bees . Which of course carry pollen from flower to flower ,which fertilizes, creating seeds, to create more flowers.

nature is full of creative processes.

anyway...I see PURPOSE in all of that.   Not design exactly, but it works as well as any design ever could?

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Stubbly_Dooright
On 8/11/2019 at 5:01 PM, Will Due said:

 

"The universe is NOT designed for humans" is true.

But humans were designed for the universe, insofar as each individual chooses to make those adjustments necessary for them to become what is required of them.

 

 

Can a human survive in a vacuum? Looking at your second sentence, I think there is a thing to remember when considering how it’s being said about humans, the universe, and it being ‘designed’. Granted, humans have been out to space, and have found ways to be in the vacuum of space. And, I think, that is where I think you mean how they choose to design a way to do that... (ie: space suits and the like), but that doesn’t mean it’s safe to say humans were designed for the universe. If they were, then they would exist within a vacuum, and not ‘have to’ design something on their own. 

I kind of look at it this way, where women could be thought of as being ‘designed’ to conceive, gestate, and give birth to children, and men were not. If a man chooses to do that, he would design something, (I like to think that close to it, the sympathy bump they can put on ((or a wifely punch to the stomach, :devil: ) , but in the meantime, men are still not ‘designed’ for birth doing. ........ my 2 cents opinion. 

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
On 8/11/2019 at 9:07 PM, Will Due said:
On 8/11/2019 at 8:18 PM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

There is no evidence that points to humans being designed

 

But if you've chosen to believe that there's no evidence that points to humans being designed, there always will remain the evidence of what a person has chosen to design themselves to be.

 

I still think, that doesn’t mean they were designed for it. If they were, they wouldn’t have to ‘choose to design it’ in the end. 

I think creativity, and the like, is a reactionary task within the minds of humans, who weren’t designed for things. Kind of like the ole saying, ‘necessity the mother of all inventions’ . 

Necessity canceling out one is designed for it. 

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