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Scudbuster

A Universe Not Made For Us

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Stubbly_Dooright
On 8/11/2019 at 8:18 PM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Until we know how the universe came to be, we cant say with any certainty that it was designed.

If it wasn't designed for humans, who was it designed for ? The "beings" that wrote the UB ?

There is no evidence that points to humans being designed, there is however an enourmous amount of evidence that points to humans being the result of millions of years of evolution.

 

20 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

If the universe was made for humans, why did it take 13,7 billions years before we got there? 

Why was the Earth itself uninhaitable for humans for the first 4 billion years of its life ? 

Man, I think your posts hit the nails on the heads here. 

........... I, uh, ...... I just wanted to say that. :blush:  

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Stubbly_Dooright
On 8/11/2019 at 11:42 PM, Hammerclaw said:

We are star-stuff, the Universe come alive and aware of itself.

I like that. We’re star-stuff. I like to think myself as being star-stuff. Sounds like a super hero name. 

I’m here to help!!! For I am.................STAR-STUFF!!!!!  :P  

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Stubbly_Dooright
20 hours ago, XenoFish said:

We are a cosmic accident and religion is an existential band-aid. 

The first part, pretty much what I have always thought. The second part, I think .......... exactly. And I say this, as someone with religion, spirituality. My own belief has help my little ‘wounds’ :D  

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Will Due
13 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I still think, that doesn’t mean they were designed for it. If they were, they wouldn’t have to ‘choose to design it’ in the end. 

 

Doesn't everyone choose (design) who they become?

 

 

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Crazy Horse
On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:48 PM, Scudbuster said:

The weak origins of religion, the perpetuation of lies and deceptions along the way, humans metaphorically shooting themselves in the foot all these years, etc  - Carl Sagan simply hits it out of the park in this video: 

 

It funny, from the "Big Bang" we got life, matter, energy, and consciousness, all from nothing, this is a massive and unexplainable "scientific" miracle worthy of any God!!!

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 hour ago, Will Due said:
1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I still think, that doesn’t mean they were designed for it. If they were, they wouldn’t have to ‘choose to design it’ in the end. 

 

Doesn't everyone choose (design) who they become?

I find that’s irrelevant to what I’m trying to point out. And even then, I find your point a bet skewed. For one, I don’t think ‘everyone’ chooses who they ‘want’ to become. I think some are satisfied and decide to ‘not to choose’. 

Second, someone who ‘chooses’ to who they want to be, and actually becoming that, is also I see as off, because there are logical barriers to that. One can choose to be an accountant and go through the process to become one, but another who chooses to be a bobcat, might find that they ;)  can’t. (Shape shifting doesn’t seem to be an actual objective provable thing) 

And third, and this is the kicker to the point here, Will, your post doesn’t mean that a person is designed for the universe. I’m wondering, if you understood what I was trying to say. It’s kind of like how a canvas tent is not designed for winters conditions, and the owners of the tent building a log cabin over it. The difference is choosing to build a space suit to go out into space, as opposed to being born to survive a vacuum without the spacesuit. 

See, your question went off tangent to the point. I don’t think you’ll have me see the connection to your claim that humans were designed for it. 

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
Word correction
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RabidMongoose
On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:48 PM, Scudbuster said:

The weak origins of religion, the perpetuation of lies and deceptions along the way, humans metaphorically shooting themselves in the foot all these years, etc  - Carl Sagan simply hits it out of the park in this video: 

 

In Judeo-Christian mysticism there is a state of oneness which splits into two pleasure forces - a giving force and receiving force.

The giving force is conceptualised as God, the receiving force is conceptualised as man, and they are supposed to exist in a relationship with each other of giving and receiving pleasure. The human problem is two things get inserted into the middle to break that relationship. The first is our individual ego, the second is our collective or societal ego.

Individual Ego: Our egos make us fall into the trap of receiving pleasure not to satisfy the giving force, but receiving it just for ourselves.

Societal Ego: Our society tells us a list of pleasures which are morally wrong to receive, and therefore we prevent ourselves receiving those pleasures to comply with society.

Therefore, because of our individual and societal egos we isolate ourselves from God. With the Bible there are many books that never got included, or were included but have been heavily altered. We know that by comparing ancient scripture (like the Dead Sea Scrolls) with what we have today. As such modern Bibles have lots of inconsistencies, contradictions, and plan old nonsense in them.

The books that were excluded teach people how to rebuild their relationships with God. For instance in the Book of Thomas Jesus tells us `not to do anything which doesnt bring us pleasure`. Meaning as we go through life we should be discriminating against things which we dont get pleasure from, and limiting ourselves to those things we enjoy.

Jesus also places emphasis on turning the two into one. He is referring to the giving and receiving forces. What it means is dumping your ego and societal ego (as much as possible), and then existing in a proper giving and receiving of pleasure relationship with God. Seek out and indulge in only what brings you pleasure in life, avoid everything else. And when doing so remember the giving force in the relationship and make sure you are receiving pleasure to give it satisfaction back.

Be grateful to it, admire it, love it.

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Will Due
4 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

[It] doesn’t mean that a person is designed for the universe.

 

I agree. 

But it's up to each individual to choose what they will design themselves to be. 

And one of those things, might be, to become what the universe requires of them.

 

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
6 minutes ago, Will Due said:
18 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

[It] doesn’t mean that a person is designed for the universe.

 

I agree. 

But it's up to each individual to choose what they will design themselves to be. 

And one of those things, might be, to become what the universe requires of them.

If I take your post (post #6): 

Quote

"The universe is NOT designed for humans" is true.

But humans were designed for the universe, insofar as each individual chooses to make those adjustments necessary for them to become what is required of them.

Even in the sentence I put in italics, the bold part does not explain the first part of the sentence. Or, if I put it in the way I feel I logically see it, humans who are designed for the universe, would be humans born to it. Individuals who choose to make adjustments, are just going against their design.

(Maybe, it’s the way I tried to explain it in my original posts, I do have problems in explaining things. :( ) 

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Will Due
41 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

If I take your post (post #6): 

Even in the sentence I put in italics, the bold part does not explain the first part of the sentence. Or, if I put it in the way I feel I logically see it, humans who are designed for the universe, would be humans born to it. Individuals who choose to make adjustments, are just going against their design.

(Maybe, it’s the way I tried to explain it in my original posts, I do have problems in explaining things. :( ) 

 

That's why I love you because I do the same thing. :rolleyes:

 

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
11 minutes ago, Will Due said:
54 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

If I take your post (post #6): 

Even in the sentence I put in italics, the bold part does not explain the first part of the sentence. Or, if I put it in the way I feel I logically see it, humans who are designed for the universe, would be humans born to it. Individuals who choose to make adjustments, are just going against their design.

(Maybe, it’s the way I tried to explain it in my original posts, I do have problems in explaining things. :( ) 

 

That's why I love you because I do the same thing. :rolleyes:

That’s adorable! ;)  :blush:  :w00t:  (and probably team building to a point *shrugs*) 

...... but, I don’t think it’s the end all reply to my point, riiiiiiiiiiiight!? ;)  :tu:  

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Tatetopa
On 8/12/2019 at 7:09 AM, Pettytalk said:

Logic and ego both say that, until something comes along that can easily make us their food source, as we do the whole population of the things we dine on, then I say that it's futile and ridiculous to suggest that the earth, and even the entire physical universe was not made for us Humans.

Well then, maybe humans and the whole universe were designed for the convenience of fleas, ticks, mosquitoes, and flesh eating bacteria.   Pray to the flea god!

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Will Due

 

Based on everything I see about who God really is, here's how I see it.

If a person has honest doubts about the existence of God and our relationship with him because of the lack of objective evidence, then in my opinion (not that it matters much if at all), that person will survive into the afterlife to be offered the opportunity to choose, based on the objective evidence there found in the beyond and to what the fact of survival and rematerialization on a new world implies in the first place.

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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Hammerclaw
3 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I like that. We’re star-stuff. I like to think myself as being star-stuff. Sounds like a super hero name. 

I’m here to help!!! For I am.................STAR-STUFF!!!!!  :P  

I can't take a bow for that. I was quoting Carl Sagan from memory from the first episode of Cosmos.

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Scudbuster
On 8/13/2019 at 9:54 AM, Crazy Horse said:

It funny, from the "Big Bang" we got life, matter, energy, and consciousness, all from nothing, this is a massive and unexplainable "scientific" miracle worthy of any God!!!

For all I know, the "Big Bang" was probably the collapse of a giant mega Quasar which blasted its huge incalculable volume out into the another dimension.....where we just happen to exist now.

We know Quasars exist.....some "god"?  Eh, not so much.

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Jodie.Lynne
On 8/13/2019 at 12:20 PM, Stubbly_Dooright said:

(and probably team building to a point *shrugs*) 

Oh No! Don't mention "team", or else you'll trigger our resident paranoiac!

:D

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Jodie.Lynne
On 8/13/2019 at 12:44 PM, Will Due said:

that person will survive into the afterlife to be offered the opportunity to choose

How convenient. This reminds me of the Mormon tactic for "baptizing" dead folk in order to increase their numbers.

It is amazing how, without even a shred of evidence, believers can dictate that their beliefs are true, and that everyone will forced to face the "fact", even once they are dead.

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cormac mac airt
13 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

How convenient. This reminds me of the Mormon tactic for "baptizing" dead folk in order to increase their numbers.

It is amazing how, without even a shred of evidence, believers can dictate that their beliefs are true, and that everyone will forced to face the "fact", even once they are dead.

I’ve always thought of it as an insult to the dead, particularly those who definitely WEREN’T Mormons. 

cormac

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Jodie.Lynne
6 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

I’ve always thought of it as an insult to the dead, particularly those who definitely WEREN’T Mormons. 

cormac

I am not 100% sure, but I was told that they have even "baptized" Anne Frank into the Mormon ranks.

To me, it is no better or worse than this: 

Quote

at person will survive into the afterlife to be offered the opportunity to choose, based on the objective evidence there found in the beyond

Which is basically the same as all the preachers and priests who offer promises that cannot be fulfilled until you are dead. Best conmen in the business. Your marks have no way to expose you, because they are beyond caring. There is a brutal truth to the saying "A dead man tells no tales"

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Will Due
33 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

It is amazing how, without even a shred of evidence, believers can dictate that their beliefs are true, and that everyone will forced to face the "fact", even once they are dead.

 

It's just my opinion. I didn't dictate anything Jodie.

I was conversing with @Stubbly_Dooright. And I was thinking about how she often expresses that it's hard for her to believe because there just isn't any objective evidence that God exists. And she's right.

So it got me thinking. And I thought that yeah, if a person has honest doubts based on this lack of evidence (and hasn't rejected the spiritual life) then in my opinion given everything I see personally that's true about God, that he's a loving Father, he probably will welcome those with honest doubts to have the opportunity to have the objective evidence (surviving mortal life being pretty objective all by itself) to then with that (and many other things that must be a part of the life in the beyond) act as the bonafide objective evidence of God's existence as our Father (and us as his children) if that were to happen, perhaps then, there might grow a new born desire to take life further. Even to the end of time.

That's all.

But having said that, if it's your wholehearted desire to be dead, in my opinion, I'm pretty sure when you expire here on earth, you'll be left quite alone to your eternal rest of non-participation. If that's what you wholeheartedly choose.

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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Jodie.Lynne
8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

If that's what you choose.

Other than your fanatical devotion to the UB, do you have anything that indicates your beliefs are true or accurate?

Or is it just your desire that your beliefs are true that keep you going? You used the phrases "in my opinion" and "personally" to preface your statements, which indicate that your statements are only applicable to yourself. And that is a positive thing, since you seem to acknowledge that what you find reasonable may not apply to others.

 

And kudos and thank you for actually responding, rather than trying to be inscrutable. :)

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cormac mac airt
24 minutes ago, Will Due said:

It's just my opinion. I didn't dictate anything Jodie.

I was conversing with @Stubbly_Dooright. And I was thinking about how she often expresses that it's hard for her to believe because there just isn't any objective evidence that God exists. And she's right.

So it got me thinking. And I thought that yeah, if a person has honest doubts based on this lack of evidence (and hasn't rejected the spiritual life) then in my opinion given everything I see personally that's true about God, that he's a loving Father, he probably will welcome those with honest doubts to have the opportunity to have the objective evidence (surviving mortal life being pretty objective all by itself) to then with that (and many other things that must be a part of the life in the beyond) act as the bonafide objective evidence of God's existence as our Father (and us as his children) if that were to happen, perhaps then, there might grow a new born desire to take life further. Even to the end of time.

That's all.

But having said that, if it's your wholehearted desire to be dead, in my opinion, I'm pretty sure when you expire here on earth, you'll be left quite alone to your eternal rest of non-participation. If that's what you wholeheartedly choose.

Of course the flip side is, if you're wrong you will never know it and it will never matter. 

cormac

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Alchopwn
On 8/12/2019 at 6:07 AM, papageorge1 said:

I have never seen much to suggest that Carl Sagan knew much about broader-minded religious thinking.

Well, given that most religion is mainly narrow minded and generally a dead weight parasite on humanity, perhaps Sagan was disinclined to consider the less ultra-negative effects of religion?

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Crazy Horse
8 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

For all I know, the "Big Bang" was probably the collapse of a giant mega Quasar which blasted its huge incalculable volume out into the another dimension.....where we just happen to exist now.

We know Quasars exist.....some "god"?  Eh, not so much.

I was talking about before the universe came into being, quasars are already in the universe.

The scientific explanation/theory of how the universe came into being is the subject here, and how from nothing we now how life, matter, energy and consciousness, which if you take into account the scientific fact that nothing can come from nothing, then this becomes an apparently massive and completely unexplainable miracle that is worthy of any God.

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Jodie.Lynne
11 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

completely unexplainable miracle that is worthy of any God.

Except that most definitions about 'god', indicate that he came violates the "everything must come from something" argument.

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