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Scudbuster

A Universe Not Made For Us

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Piney
1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

scientific fact that nothing can come from nothing

There is no such "fact".  There is a scientific "theory" that the Universe started out a a super dense singularity, that might of been a previously collapsed universe. 

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Will Due
2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Except that most definitions about 'god', indicate that he came violates the "everything must come from something" argument.

 

Do you think it's impossible that God is eternal?

 

 

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

I was talking about before the universe came into being, quasars are already in the universe.

The scientific explanation/theory of how the universe came into being is the subject here, and how from nothing we now how life, matter, energy and consciousness, which if you take into account the scientific fact that nothing can come from nothing, then this becomes an apparently massive and completely unexplainable miracle that is worthy of any God.

Would you care to share the evidence that it is scientifically proven that nothing can come from nothing ?

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
39 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Do you think it's impossible that God is eternal?

 

 

The question you should be asking is this: "Are there any reliable evidence that points to God existing" ?

Until that is settled you are discussing the properties of something that may not even be there. 

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Essan
49 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Do you think it's impossible that God is eternal?

 

 



Unless there is a being that has existed since the beginning of the universe and will continue to exist until the end of the universe, and that being has believed, since the beginning of the universe, in a god, and will continue to do so until the universe ceases to exist,  then it's not possible for any god to be eternal



 

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Scudbuster
3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

I was talking about before the universe came into being, quasars are already in the universe.

The scientific explanation/theory of how the universe came into being is the subject here, and how from nothing we now how life, matter, energy and consciousness, which if you take into account the scientific fact that nothing can come from nothing, then this becomes an apparently massive and completely unexplainable miracle that is worthy of any God.

No, what I'm referring to is the current existence of quasars, black holes etc. Some are in the process of collapsing and ejecting out enormous amounts of "stuff".

 Now, scientists talk about the real possibility of other dimensions, other realities etc. Perhaps those collapsing quasars/black holes are blasting their enormous amounts of engorged material out into one of these "other dimensions". Our "big bang" could have been the product of one of these events....and this particular "void"was born and became reality to us...eventually.

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Stubbly_Dooright

 

11 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:
On 8/13/2019 at 12:20 PM, Stubbly_Dooright said:

(and probably team building to a point *shrugs*) 

Oh No! Don't mention "team", or else you'll trigger our resident paranoiac!

Maybe, this will help things.

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Will Due
58 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

The question you should be asking is this: "Are there any reliable evidence that points to God existing" ?

Until that is settled you are discussing the properties of something that may not even be there. 

 

41 minutes ago, Essan said:

Unless there is a being that has existed since the beginning of the universe and will continue to exist until the end of the universe, and that being has believed, since the beginning of the universe, in a god, and will continue to do so until the universe ceases to exist,  then it's not possible for any god to be eternal

 

I'll rephrase the question. 

Is it impossible that something exists that's eternal?

 

 

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Essan
Just now, Will Due said:

 

 

I'll rephrase the question. 

Is it impossible that something exists that's eternal?

 

 

Am not a physicist.  But a particle created at the precise beginning of the big bang* and continuing in an unaltered state until the very end of the universe?   I coudn't say it were impossible, unless I were wholly omniscient ;)  


* this presupposes that the uni/multi/verse only came into being with the big bang and didn't exist long before then .....


* this

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Will Due
1 minute ago, Essan said:

Am not a physicist.  But a particle created at the precise beginning of the big bang* and continuing in an unaltered state until the very end of the universe?   I coudn't say it were impossible, unless I were wholly omniscient ;)  


* this presupposes that the uni/multi/verse only came into being with the big bang and didn't exist long before then .....


* this

 

So it is possible that something has existed from the eternal past. For eternity.

 

 

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Essan
Just now, Will Due said:

 

So it is possible that something has existed from the eternal past. For eternity.

 

 

I don't know

Do you think your god is a proton?

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Will Due
13 minutes ago, Essan said:

I don't know

Do you think your god is a proton?

 

Looks like the conversation (from your side) has gone protozoan. :clap:

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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Crazy Horse
3 hours ago, Piney said:

There is no such "fact".  There is a scientific "theory" that the Universe started out a a super dense singularity, that might of been a previously collapsed universe. 

The laws of physics state that nothing can come from nothing, ie, everything comes from something else, energy in flux.

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Crazy Horse
1 hour ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Would you care to share the evidence that it is scientifically proven that nothing can come from nothing ?

Everything comes from something, life from life, energy from energy in motion, therefore, it is reasonable to say that nothing can come from nothing.

Nothing - Big Bang - life, matter, energy and consciousness, THAT is a miracle worthy of any God.

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cormac mac airt
44 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I'll rephrase the question. 

Is it impossible that something exists that's eternal?

It’s possible, but that doesn’t mean it would necessarily be sentient. 

cormac

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Crazy Horse
1 hour ago, Scudbuster said:

No, what I'm referring to is the current existence of quasars, black holes etc. Some are in the process of collapsing and ejecting out enormous amounts of "stuff".

 Now, scientists talk about the real possibility of other dimensions, other realities etc. Perhaps those collapsing quasars/black holes are blasting their enormous amounts of engorged material out into one of these "other dimensions". Our "big bang" could have been the product of one of these events....and this particular "void"was born and became reality to us...eventually.

And my original post was concerning the Big Bang, ie, the very beginnings of this universe. You were reacting to my post, its not my fault you went off on a quasar.

From nothing we had a BIG Bang, now we have life, matter, energy obeying certain laws and principles, and consciousness too. So from nothing we have all this STUFF. And THAT is a scientific miracle worthy of any God.

Otherwise please explain how we got all this stuff from nothing?

 

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Crazy Horse
4 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Except that most definitions about 'god', indicate that he came violates the "everything must come from something" argument.

God is above the laws of duality, cause and effect, rhythm, etc. etc., that is what makes God, God. "Eternal Living Consciousness" would be a way to describe God in the very broadest sense.

 

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Dejarma
On 8/11/2019 at 8:48 PM, Scudbuster said:

The weak origins of religion, the perpetuation of lies and deceptions along the way, humans metaphorically shooting themselves in the foot all these years, etc  - Carl Sagan simply hits it out of the park in this video: 

 

I feel as far as rational thinking is concerned (especially in this day & age) the likes of Mr.. Sagan have no need to spout the bleeding obvious!

For me personally, this has been <bleeding obvious> from around the age of about 10.... Just my opinion for what it's worth

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Essan
6 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

God is above the laws of duality, cause and effect, rhythm, etc. etc., that is what makes God, God. "Eternal Living Consciousness" would be a way to describe God in the very broadest sense.

 

That is a modern definition of god.  Interesting how the definition constantly changes though ......  Not that long ago he lived on a mountain drinking ambrosia demanding absolute subservience, or else, and occasionally popping down to ravage a young maiden or talk to a lonely goatherd whilst pretending to be a burning bush.   You knew what god was in them days.  Now it's some metaphysical thingie that defies proper explanation.    With luck, next week it'll be me :D 

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cormac mac airt
5 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Except that most definitions about 'god', indicate that he came violates the "everything must come from something" argument.

Except that a physics discussion of quantum gravity and virtual particles or even a Multiverse would not violate the above. It would likely mean though that one would have to redefine God IMO. 

cormac

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Stubbly_Dooright
12 hours ago, Will Due said:
13 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

It is amazing how, without even a shred of evidence, believers can dictate that their beliefs are true, and that everyone will forced to face the "fact", even once they are dead.

 

It's just my opinion. I didn't dictate anything Jodie.

I was conversing with @Stubbly_Dooright. And I was thinking about how she often expresses that it's hard for her to believe because there just isn't any objective evidence that God exists. And she's right.

So it got me thinking. And I thought that yeah, if a person has honest doubts based on this lack of evidence (and hasn't rejected the spiritual life) then in my opinion given everything I see personally that's true about God, that he's a loving Father, he probably will welcome those with honest doubts to have the opportunity to have the objective evidence (surviving mortal life being pretty objective all by itself) to then with that (and many other things that must be a part of the life in the beyond) act as the bonafide objective evidence of God's existence as our Father (and us as his children) if that were to happen, perhaps then, there might grow a new born desire to take life further. Even to the end of time.

That's all.

Well, that’s nice, if that is the case. And, I wonder at it, if those are being told, that what they do in this life is important for the afterlife, why is the afterlife so dead set on being not changeable or workable? To me, I hear it so much, that it seems to be definite about your fate and that you can’t change if when you get there. No trial, no chance to appeal and show reasons, or anything that shows that one can change their fate after they die? 

How does one know for sure, that that doesn’t happen? I ask that, because I consider how one doesn’t know for a 100% fact, that your fate is definite right after you die. 

Quote

But having said that, if it's your wholehearted desire to be dead, in my opinion, I'm pretty sure when you expire here on earth, you'll be left quite alone to your eternal rest of non-participation. If that's what you wholeheartedly choose.

And even then, how do you know that will happen to Jodi? I think you missed Jodi’s point a little bit there. Again, you seem sure about something, that you don’t have 100% about. Why make a claim, when you do not know for sure? 

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Scudbuster
46 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

 

Otherwise please explain how we got all this stuff from nothing?

A black hole can compact HUGE amounts of material down into essentially "nothing" - then blasted out into another cosmic void/dimension - perhaps "poof", or "god"  -  and then spreading way out over time, it starts all over again.

Hence, maybe, just maybe, our starting point, ye old "big bang". 

 

 

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Will Due
58 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Why make a claim, when you do not know for sure? 

 

In my opinion, at the apex of what humans are alive to do, is to commit wholeheartedly to something someone else tells you, no one can know for sure.

So that's what I do.

And because of it, certain things have become known to me (like apparently it has with others who do it too) that cannot in my opinion, become known any other way.

That's why.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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papageorge1
7 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Well, given that most religion is mainly narrow minded and generally a dead weight parasite on humanity, perhaps Sagan was disinclined to consider the less ultra-negative effects of religion?

And if so, he made a terrible error in judgment I will say. His main focus was astronomy and he dabbled in other speculations where he was no expert.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

 

I'll rephrase the question. 

Is it impossible that something exists that's eternal?

 

 

The honest answer is that I dont know.....and neither do you.

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