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Scudbuster

A Universe Not Made For Us

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joc
1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

And the other is becasuse the God I can relate to is, an Intelligent Living Loving and Conscious "THING", and the word universe, in my opinion, just doesn't do Creation justice.

I understand.  I just cannot get my little head around Intelligent, Living, Loving and Conscious Thing.   The Universe isn't intelligent...it isn't living...it certainly isn't loving and...it is not conscious.  It is  dead...completely unaware of it's own surroundings and doings...except for the conscious awareness of  life forms which have been generated inadvertently from an unconscious, non-selective and completely random formation of matter within said universe.

To me...that's what makes it all so beautiful.  It didn't have to happen...it shouldn't have happened...but it did happen.  Randomly...with no thought...no consciousness behind it...just a swirling matter of debris that swirled into something totally unique and amazing! 

Edited by joc
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Crazy Horse
40 minutes ago, joc said:

I understand.  I just cannot get my little head around Intelligent, Living, Loving and Conscious Thing.   The Universe isn't intelligent...it isn't living...it certainly isn't loving and...it is not conscious.  It is  dead...completely unaware of it's own surroundings and doings...except for the conscious awareness of  life forms which have been generated inadvertently from an unconscious, non-selective and completely random formation of matter within said universe.

To me...that's what makes it all so beautiful.  It didn't have to happen...it shouldn't have happened...but it did happen.  Randomly...with no thought...no consciousness behind it...just a swirling matter of debris that swirled into something totally unique and amazing! 

The Universe is a very loving place, if only one might take responsibility 4 ones actions..

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Crazy Horse
51 minutes ago, joc said:

 

To me...that's what makes it all so beautiful.  It didn't have to happen...it shouldn't have happened...but it did happen.  Randomly...with no thought...no consciousness behind it...just a swirling matter of debris that swirled into something totally unique and amazing! 

Name me one thing that didn't have to happen? And therefore, show me one thing that shouldn't of happened!! And show me one thing that randomly happened? 

Everything a human does has thought behind it, unless your emotional side gets the better of you, then you are not only asking for trouble, but, practically begging for it!

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lightly

Nice discussion.   I noticed "NOW". ..mentioned a few times in this thread.  Now, that is something I cannot understand at all.

when is. .now?  I don't believe in it.  Is it now yet? ( I don't believe in space either,as crazy/stupid as that sounds ) 

I only believe in energy/motion.   I can feel and see energy/motion. I think it is energy and motion that make now continuous.   ..and even variable !

 I can't perceive time....or space ,for that matter. . and speaking of matter, it is only detectable because  it  is in motion.    It is ,in fact, energy.          ?   ..  .

Edited by lightly
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Crazy Horse
23 minutes ago, lightly said:

Nice discussion.   I noticed "NOW". ..mentioned a few times in this thread.  Now, that is something I cannot understand at all.

when is. .now?  I don't believe in it.  Is it now yet? ( I don't believe in space either,as crazy/stupid as that sounds ) 

I only believe in energy/motion.   I can feel and see energy/motion. I think it is energy and motion that make now continuous.   ..and even variable !

 I can't perceive time....or space ,for that matter. . and speaking of matter, it is only detectable because  it  is in motion.    It is ,in fact, energy.          ?   ..  .

Now, is any moment without a thought...…….good luck.

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joc
1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

The Universe is a very loving place, if only one might take responsibility 4 ones actions..

The vast     v    a    s    t     majority of the universe is inanimate objects swirling through space and time.   Humans love.  Our planet doesn't love us...it is constantly trying to kill us and in the end it is the very gravity we depend on that does us in.

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joc
1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

Name me one thing that didn't have to happen? And therefore, show me one thing that shouldn't of happened!! And show me one thing that randomly happened? 

Everything a human does has thought behind it, unless your emotional side gets the better of you, then you are not only asking for trouble, but, practically begging for it!

Our solar system didn't have to happen.  The Earth being in just the right orbit with our sun shouldn't have happened...the odds are way against it...And the entire universe itself is randomly happening as we speak...and no doubt...what ever set it all in motion was a random circumstance that didn't have to happen, probably shouldn't have happened and yet....here we all are.

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joc
32 minutes ago, lightly said:

Nice discussion.   I noticed "NOW". ..mentioned a few times in this thread.  Now, that is something I cannot understand at all.

when is. .now?  I don't believe in it.  Is it now yet? ( I don't believe in space either,as crazy/stupid as that sounds ) 

I only believe in energy/motion.   I can feel and see energy/motion. I think it is energy and motion that make now continuous.   ..and even variable !

 I can't perceive time....or space ,for that matter. . and speaking of matter, it is only detectable because  it  is in motion.    It is ,in fact, energy.          ?   ..  .

Now ....  is all that really exists.   One eternal moment...never changing.  Now is not past, not present, not future.  Now is the constant in which the ever changing energy/motion you speak of takes place.

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lightly
2 hours ago, joc said:

Now ....  is all that really exists.   One eternal moment...never changing.  Now is not past, not present, not future.  Now is the constant in which the ever changing energy/motion you speak of takes place.

That seemed to make sence, for a minute.   Then I thought,.. if now ,as you say, is Not past, present ,or future,  when is it?!

Honestly, that's the exact problem I have with the concept of "now".   I can perceive and understand the "ever changing energy motion". you speak of...but , "now". . perpetually eludes me .. .:blink:   Is it impercievably  brief?  How long is now?  When did it become "then"  when will it become the future?...

Maybe your right bud....I've never understood it ..and now I still don't. :P

Edited by lightly
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joc
1 hour ago, lightly said:

That seemed to make sence, for a minute.   Then I thought,.. if now ,as you say, is Not past, present ,or future,  when is it?!

Honestly, that's the exact problem I have with the concept of "now".   I can perceive and understand the "ever changing energy motion". you speak of...but , "now". . perpetually eludes me .. .:blink:   Is it impercievably  brief?  How long is now?  When did it become "then"  when will it become the future?...

Maybe your right bud....I've never understood it ..and now I still don't. :P

Well, there is no past...it is just electro-biomecnanical  memory in our brains....

...there is no present...well, there is and that is actually...now...but...by the times our brains accept and perceive what we think of as happening right now...it has already past...perhaps a fraction of a nano-second...but it is past....but ..now...always is.  Is it right now?  No.   But count to five and ask yourself the same question...now never changes...it isn't here or there...it just is...always.  It's a hard concept for me but that's the way I interpret it.

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, lightly said:

Nice discussion.   I noticed "NOW". ..mentioned a few times in this thread.  Now, that is something I cannot understand at all.

when is. .now?  I don't believe in it.  Is it now yet? ( I don't believe in space either,as crazy/stupid as that sounds ) 

I only believe in energy/motion.   I can feel and see energy/motion. I think it is energy and motion that make now continuous.   ..and even variable !

 I can't perceive time....or space ,for that matter. . and speaking of matter, it is only detectable because  it  is in motion.    It is ,in fact, energy.          ?   ..  .

Now is the present moment

It can vary according to our perception of it, from a nano second to a few minutes.

And when people  tell us to live "in the now",  the y actually mean a longer time, maybe a week or a month ie not living in the past or the future but appreciating, and making the most of, the present 

Past present and future are all real physical states like a rock BUT the y are recognised in human minds as concepts and constructs, and also attached to abstract and symbolic meanings.(we do the same for rocks as well) 

  The past was once the present and it was also once  one potential future. The future will become the present and then the past

  Past is fixed.

Present is where we create the future (and hence where we also created our past)

The future is non existent in physical terms, as yet,

It will become physical and fixed as it enters the present and then the past .

We can shape our own future, and thus our past, by the decisions and actions we take in the now, or present. 

Edited by Mr Walker
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On3Truly
7 hours ago, joc said:

To me...that's what makes it all so beautiful.  It didn't have to happen...it shouldn't have happened...but it did happen.  Randomly...with no thought...no consciousness behind it...just a swirling matter of debris that swirled into something totally unique and amazing! 

''Randomly''

That's even harder for me to believe than a God-like bearded man in the sky who created it.

Edited by crookedspiral

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psyche101
9 hours ago, crookedspiral said:

''Randomly''

That's even harder for me to believe than a God-like bearded man in the sky who created it.

That's because you can only understand religious concepts. It's quite obvious that outside of a religious narrative, you flounder. 

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lightly

I'll take one more stab at  time   then I'll drop it, I promise. ;   We measure time by the movements of our solar system, the relationship between our earth and sun, more specifically.   A year is,approximately, one orbit of earth around our sun. A day is,approximately,one revolution of our earth.  Hours,minutes ,and seconds ,etc. are smaller divisions of those movements.  So,  time is not a constant,it is variable, therefore, we are not measuring  time  ,we are measuring motions.

Why does "time" vary the further from earth, or any gravitational field, it  gets?  For instance, satellite systems must take that variance into consideration?     Is it actually time that varies?  or the Physical conditions in which  it  is measured?

the  time we experience is actually ongoing physical changes...matter itself is continuously Re-Created..basically, because it is energy.  Physical changes don't happen in the past, or future.  We call them "now".  :P

( " space" makes even less sence to me, but I'll spare you my musings on THAT .). Thankyou, ;)

Edited by lightly
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joc
17 minutes ago, lightly said:

I'll take one more stab at  time   then I'll drop it, I promise. ;   We measure time by the movements of our solar system, the relationship between our earth and sun, more specifically.   A year is,approximately, one orbit of earth around our sun. A day is,approximately,one revolution of our earth.  Hours,minutes ,and seconds ,etc. are smaller divisions of those movements.  So,  time is not a constant,it is variable, therefore, we are not measuring  time  ,we are measuring motions.

Why does "time" vary the further from earth, or any gravitational field, it  gets?  For instance, satellite systems must take that variance into consideration?     Is it actually time that varies?  or the Physical conditions in which  it  is measured?

the  time we experience is actually ongoing physical changes...matter itself is continuously Re-Created..basically, because it is energy.  Physical changes don't happen in the past, or future.  We call them "now".  :P

( " space" makes even less sence to me, but I'll spare you my musings on THAT .). Thankyou, ;)

:clap:

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lightly

You made my day joc.   ;)

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spartan max2
On 11/3/2019 at 1:48 PM, Crazy Horse said:

The Universe is a very loving place, if only one might take responsibility 4 ones actions..

So when someone is genetically born with MS, what actions do they need to take responsibility for?

Edited by spartan max2

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Mr Walker
23 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Now is the present moment

It can vary according to our perception of it, from a nano second to a few minutes.

And when people  tell us to live "in the now",  the y actually mean a longer time, maybe a week or a month ie not living in the past or the future but appreciating, and making the most of, the present 

Past present and future are all real physical states like a rock BUT the y are recognised in human minds as concepts and constructs, and also attached to abstract and symbolic meanings.(we do the same for rocks as well) 

  The past was once the present and it was also once  one potential future. The future will become the present and then the past

  Past is fixed.

Present is where we create the future (and hence where we also created our past)

The future is non existent in physical terms, as yet,

It will become physical and fixed as it enters the present and then the past .

We can shape our own future, and thus our past, by the decisions and actions we take in the now, or present. 

Sorry if tha t confused you, Lightly. It is completely  simple and clear to me but then I've been thinking on it for many decades 

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Mr Walker
11 hours ago, lightly said:

I'll take one more stab at  time   then I'll drop it, I promise. ;   We measure time by the movements of our solar system, the relationship between our earth and sun, more specifically.   A year is,approximately, one orbit of earth around our sun. A day is,approximately,one revolution of our earth.  Hours,minutes ,and seconds ,etc. are smaller divisions of those movements.  So,  time is not a constant,it is variable, therefore, we are not measuring  time  ,we are measuring motions.

Why does "time" vary the further from earth, or any gravitational field, it  gets?  For instance, satellite systems must take that variance into consideration?     Is it actually time that varies?  or the Physical conditions in which  it  is measured?

the  time we experience is actually ongoing physical changes...matter itself is continuously Re-Created..basically, because it is energy.  Physical changes don't happen in the past, or future.  We call them "now".  :P

( " space" makes even less sence to me, but I'll spare you my musings on THAT .). Thankyou, ;)

Not my area of expertise   

However as i understand it  objectively time is a measurement of change

Subjectively it is how we perceive those changes .

i believe proximity to gravity and also speed or velocity can affect time  I think they actually influence the observers reference frame of time rather than time itself  On the other hand time dilation is real and has observable if tiny  effects on cosmonauts Ps you can measure time in many ways, such as by the resonation of a cesium atom 

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On3Truly
18 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That's because you can only understand religious concepts. It's quite obvious that outside of a religious narrative, you flounder. 

No. It's a far-fetched idea with a veneer or rationality.

Between a creator God with a magic wand and a quantum vacuum who pops out Universes randomly from nothing, the two seems as much unlikely.

Edited by crookedspiral

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psyche101
1 hour ago, crookedspiral said:

No. It's a far-fetched idea with a veneer or rationality.

Between a creator God with a magic wand and a quantum vacuum who pops out Universes randomly from nothing, the two seems as much unlikely.

Except that the Casimir effect actually verified that virtual particles exist. 

So they are chalk and cheese. Nothing alike. If you put as much effort into knowledge as you do studying superstition, you might be able to free that jailed mind which can only think in religious scenarios. 

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preacherman76
On 8/15/2019 at 8:34 AM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Would you care to share the evidence that it is scientifically proven that nothing can come from nothing ?

Sure. We learned it in kindergarten. 

0+0=0

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lightly
On November 3, 2019 at 8:09 PM, Mr Walker said:

 

Past present and future are all real physical states like a rock BUT the y are recognised in human minds as concepts and constructs, and also attached to abstract and symbolic meanings.(we do the same for rocks as well) 

The future is non existent in physical terms, as yet,

It will become physical and fixed as it enters the present and then the past .

Yes, this confuses me ^       But it doesn't take much to confuse me.  

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On3Truly
12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Except that the Casimir effect actually verified that virtual particles exist. 

So they are chalk and cheese. Nothing alike. If you put as much effort into knowledge as you do studying superstition, you might be able to free that jailed mind which can only think in religious scenarios. 

You just swapped one sort of magical thinking for another.

Instead of a bearded man sitting in the clouds you have a quantum vacuum who pops out a Universe randomly from ''nothing''.

Edited by crookedspiral

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XenoFish

It is a true sign of arrogance to believe that the universe was made for us. Instead of thinking that we are just a infinitely tiny finite part of it. 

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