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Scudbuster

A Universe Not Made For Us

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psyche101
6 hours ago, crookedspiral said:

You just swapped one sort of magical thinking for another.

Instead of a bearded man sitting in the clouds you have a quantum vacuum who pops out a Universe randomly from ''nothing''.

No I haven't. As I already stated, the Casimir effect has confirmed virtual particles. Your god is eroded by growing knowledge. All you have shown here is your deliberate ignorance. 

Another very good test some readers may want to look up, which we do not have space to describe here, is the Casimir effect, where forces between metal plates in empty space are modified by the presence of virtual particles.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-virtual-particles-rea/

 

That's not magical thinking at all. That's a result. Nothing like the fairytale you preach is it. 

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psyche101
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

It is a true sign of arrogance to believe that the universe was made for us. Instead of thinking that we are just a infinitely tiny finite part of it. 

And even worse, deliberate ignorance. 

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Mr Walker
8 hours ago, lightly said:

Yes, this confuses me ^       But it doesn't take much to confuse me.  

It can be worked out, if approached carefully and logically  :) 

Our past was once our present and our future. Our future will become our present and our past 

While a past is unchangeable once fixed, you can create or fix your past in the present . ie if you want to alter your past for 2020 from what you expect it to be in 2021, do it now in 2019  by choosing a different path

A future is changeable, and because it becomes our present and our past, we can  organise, not just our future, but our present and our past, by looking forward and making decisions, then acting on them as the present reaches us. 

So, I am 67 years old. My past is how i planned it to be because I planned for my future from an early age and made decisions which brought those plans into fruition.   Some things are outside our control but not many   I continue to plan the last few years of my life in advance so that, when I am about to die, i will look back on a life i planned when i was a teenager and have no regrets . 

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Mr Walker
On 11/5/2019 at 9:49 AM, spartan max2 said:

So when someone is genetically born with MS, what actions do they need to take responsibility for?

What the y do, given those conditions. How the y feel, respond and act, in the things they have control over. 

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Mr Walker
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

It is a true sign of arrogance to believe that the universe was made for us. Instead of thinking that we are just a infinitely tiny finite part of it. 

ah but where would humans be without some arrogance and hubris? 

No the universe was not made for us We evolved as products  of the universe and adapted to our local environment 

BUT  given human abilities, and time, we could re MAKE the universe for ourselves  Unless another life form has beaten us to it )  Or we could remake ourlseves to better fit the universe 

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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

And even worse, deliberate ignorance. 

Can't I just live my life without having to muddle it by living according to the expectations of some religion and their god/s? 

Just focus on living. If there is an afterlife so be it, if not, you won't know. 

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Scudbuster
16 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Can't I just live my life without having to muddle it by living according to the expectations of some religion and their god/s? 

Just focus on living. If there is an afterlife so be it, if not, you won't know. 

Yes you can Xeno, I give you permission, right here, right now, you are freed from any religious bondage that was ever cast upon you at any time in your life. POOF - GONE....! :yes:

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quiXilver

life unfolds in presence and awareness.

 

time is a function of human memory and comparison.  awareness recalls waking up this morning, traveling to work and then returning home.  the comparison of this experiential awareness is analyzed and reified as time.

it is noumenal, not phenomenological and does not exist objectively aside from a function of human memory and comparison.

 

awareness abides in presence.

 

memories of awareness "in the past" occur in presence.

i.e.  when you remember the past, you do it now.

fantasies about potential awareness of future occur in presence.

i.e. when you fantasize about the future, it happens in presence.

 

you are aware, in presence utterly imbued in the unfolding aggregates of experiential conditions

this is reality and it is entirely subjective

 

time is a function awareness seems to utilize to distinguish the unfolding of conditions within the aggregate of experiential reality.

 

space is not empty, it's full of... everything

darkness is not the absence of light, but the indicator of the limits of the function of our eyes.

time is a human fantasy, a convenient illusion to explain the comparisons experienced in experience due to the function of memory... 

 

8am on monday means nothing to stars, moles, oceans, dust, bacteria or the rest of unfolding reality

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lightly
10 hours ago, quiXilver said:

 

darkness is not the absence of light, but the indicator of the limits of the function of our eyes.

 

I liked your entire post.  To save time and space, I just wanted to 'expand' upon the point that especially interests me. :)

YES, the " darkness" of the space between our earth and moon ,for example, unless shaded by the earth, is full of light.  This fact is evidenced by the reflection of that light on the moon.  Just as the "darkness" between earth and any visible planet is actually filled with light.   The darkness of space is filled with light... But only visible ,to our eyes, when reflected off something.

  

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lightly

And stars lightly, don't forget stars.     Duhhhhh !   ;

Edited by lightly

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Crazy Horse
On 11/3/2019 at 8:39 PM, joc said:

The vast     v    a    s    t     majority of the universe is inanimate objects swirling through space and time.   Humans love.  Our planet doesn't love us...it is constantly trying to kill us and in the end it is the very gravity we depend on that does us in.

I don't believe the planet is trying to kill us.

To my mind, and many others too, we are not in-fact fighting with the planet nor even each other, but it is a constant battle within ourselves where the all the action actually takes place, and making friends and loving ourselves and at least trying to do the right thing tends to make life go a lot easier, to the point of thriving and even enlightenment The point is not to see the outside world, or universe as hostile, but to take responsibility and just try to do the right thing. 

I am a very mindful person and I know, have realised that when I serve Creation, Creation serves me...

And when I miss the mark, bad stuff happens. Its just the way it is.

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Crazy Horse
On 11/3/2019 at 8:41 PM, joc said:

Our solar system didn't have to happen.  The Earth being in just the right orbit with our sun shouldn't have happened...the odds are way against it...And the entire universe itself is randomly happening as we speak...and no doubt...what ever set it all in motion was a random circumstance that didn't have to happen, probably shouldn't have happened and yet....here we all are.

I tend to disagree.

If it didn't have to happen, it wouldn't have... as simple as that!

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Crazy Horse
On 11/3/2019 at 8:39 PM, joc said:

The vast     v    a    s    t     majority of the universe is inanimate objects swirling through space and time.   Humans love.  Our planet doesn't love us...it is constantly trying to kill us and in the end it is the very gravity we depend on that does us in.

Over this last summer I have come to a realisation, a knowing, an experiencing, that its not the planet, nor the universe that is killing us, nor our fellow man, but it is our own silly, misjudged, misguided, inappropriate and sometimes completely bat-ship crazy actions that are slowly killing us.

Personally I think the reason why we act in such a pitiful way, is that in some deep subconscious place we know that life is eternal, and if we don't make a good grade in this life then theres always the next one to do better in!

 

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Cookie Monster

In Western Civilization there persists a fallacy to this day that human beings are biological robots.

Robots are just machines executing lines of computer code designed to mimic human consciousness. They are not conscious, they dont have free will, and most importantly they are only capable of deterministic actions and behaviour. Consciousness, free will, and non-determinism, cannot be coded into a machine.

Religion and physics are both a belief that the universe has come into existence from non-duality. In religion that non-duality is the unification of space, time, matter, and consciousness. In physics its the unification of space, time, and matter.

Because scientists cannot replicate, understand, or properly investigate consciousness they dont know what to do with it. The atheist camp have explained mind away as resulting from matter arranged in a particular way with no actual evidence to prove it. As a result it has been left out of the Big Bang version of non-duality.

Theories without proof are dangerous especially when communicated to easy influenced and susceptible people. It leads them astray. And atheism is currently unfalsifiable because we dont have the technology or understanding of physics to understand what consciousness even is.

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Crazy Horse
On 11/4/2019 at 11:19 PM, spartan max2 said:

So when someone is genetically born with MS, what actions do they need to take responsibility for?

Past actions...

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spartan max2
3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Past actions...

Can you elaborate ?

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Crazy Horse
10 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Can you elaborate ?

Well I believe in reincarnation, it makes sense to me, and it makes sense of this life too.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Well I believe in reincarnation, it makes sense to me, and it makes sense of this life too.

So what do you think that @spartan max2 did in a past life to deserve getting MS ? 

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spartan max2
11 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

So what do you think that @spartan max2 did in a past life to deserve getting MS ? 

Just want to point out that I myself do not have MS. I know people who do. Sorry for the confusion.

And ditto to your question. 

Edited by spartan max2
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Habitat

Multiple sclerosis is not a congenital disease

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Horta
3 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

In Western Civilization there persists a fallacy to this day that human beings are biological robots.

We are most certainly biological machines. This would be a fact, by definition.

Quote

Robots are just machines executing lines of computer code designed to mimic human consciousness. They are not conscious, they dont have free will, and most importantly they are only capable of deterministic actions and behaviour. Consciousness, free will, and non-determinism, cannot be coded into a machine.

Can you define consciousness, so that we know what you are claiming? Can you also define "free will". Then once we understand what you are claiming, we can go further into your rather sweeping assumptions.

Quote

Religion and physics are both a belief that the universe has come into existence from non-duality. In religion that non-duality is the unification of space, time, matter, and consciousness. In physics its the unification of space, time, and matter.

Not true (the physics part). There is no scientific theory afaik, for how the universe "came into existence".

Quote

Because scientists cannot replicate, understand, or properly investigate consciousness they dont know what to do with it. The atheist camp have explained mind away as resulting from matter arranged in a particular way with no actual evidence to prove it. As a result it has been left out of the Big Bang version of non-duality.

Again, as you give no definition for consciousness, it is difficult to know what you are claiming.

If you are talking about "awareness" and a sense of "self" then consciousness is presently, and has been investigated "properly". We know exactly what consciousness is, although we don't have the technology to replicate a human brain as yet.

Every piece of (the rather substantial) evidence indicates that the mind in it's entirety arises as a result of a functioning brain. A brain that is made of plain old matter (and nothing else). Every relevant scientific observation ever made, and every relevant experiment supports this. There is nothing "non physical" causing any of it.

Quote

Theories without proof are dangerous especially when communicated to easy influenced and susceptible people. It leads them astray. And atheism is currently unfalsifiable because we dont have the technology or understanding of physics to understand what consciousness even is.

Irony.

The atheist stance is easily falsifiable. Design an experiment to illustrate the mind isn't reliant on a physical brain. Should be easy to do if it is so. 

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Cookie Monster
12 hours ago, Horta said:

We are most certainly biological machines. This would be a fact, by definition.

Can you define consciousness, so that we know what you are claiming? Can you also define "free will". Then once we understand what you are claiming, we can go further into your rather sweeping assumptions.

Not true (the physics part). There is no scientific theory afaik, for how the universe "came into existence".

Again, as you give no definition for consciousness, it is difficult to know what you are claiming.

If you are talking about "awareness" and a sense of "self" then consciousness is presently, and has been investigated "properly". We know exactly what consciousness is, although we don't have the technology to replicate a human brain as yet.

Every piece of (the rather substantial) evidence indicates that the mind in it's entirety arises as a result of a functioning brain. A brain that is made of plain old matter (and nothing else). Every relevant scientific observation ever made, and every relevant experiment supports this. There is nothing "non physical" causing any of it.

Irony.

The atheist stance is easily falsifiable. Design an experiment to illustrate the mind isn't reliant on a physical brain. Should be easy to do if it is so. 

A computer program is not consciousness, free will, or non-deterministic behaviour. Its a list of computer code designed to try and mimic them. If you cannot grasp that basic concept then there is no actual point debating with you as you either arent intelligent enough or are so deeply biased you distort away simplistic truths to fit your worldview.

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Crazy Horse
20 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

So what do you think that @spartan max2 did in a past life to deserve getting MS ? 

I have no idea of anything that anyone alive today has done in a previous life.

But I see the life around me today and I know that for every action there is a reaction, and for every cause there is an effect, and that whatever I say, think, or do, there is a natural consequence that can be deemed either good or bad depending upon how it makes one feel. Although with a good attitude, even the bad stuff can be pure gold.

Some babies are born healthy, some are born unhealthy, and as someone who knows karma (for sure) and believes strongly in reincarnation, this actually makes very good sense.

The important point here, is that we may see this 'cause and effect' in action, from moment to moment, and instead of blaming some outside influence or occurrence for our hard times, we could look honestly for the real reason and make a conscious effort to learn and move-on. 

I don't wish to sound hard hearted, I have a deep compassion, but this taking of responsibility will actually make the world a better place.

 

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joc
On 11/8/2019 at 12:35 PM, Crazy Horse said:

I don't believe the planet is trying to kill us.

To my mind, and many others too, we are not in-fact fighting with the planet nor even each other, but it is a constant battle within ourselves where the all the action actually takes place, and making friends and loving ourselves and at least trying to do the right thing tends to make life go a lot easier, to the point of thriving and even enlightenment The point is not to see the outside world, or universe as hostile, but to take responsibility and just try to do the right thing. 

I am a very mindful person and I know, have realised that when I serve Creation, Creation serves me...

And when I miss the mark, bad stuff happens. Its just the way it is.

Of course the planet is not trying to kill us. It does not know if it is killing us or not. It is however a very hostile planet. It is the very hostility of the planet that  caused life to evolve the way it did.

And I agree with you crazy horse. It is the hostility within our own beings that creates problems for not only our own selves but for the rest of mankind as well.

Furthermore, death is a part of life. That does not mean however that life continues after death except through procreation which is why life pro-creates to begin with.

I do not think we get a do-over. Which is why it is so important to live our lives to the fullest that we can without harming ourselves, harming each other, or harming the planet.

In the end it is the very gravity that keeps us here that does eventually kill us. But there is no planet that we know of that is less hostile to life.

There is enlightenment. It is that enlightenment that allows us to be the best humans that we can be.

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spartan max2
12 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

I have no idea of anything that anyone alive today has done in a previous life.

But I see the life around me today and I know that for every action there is a reaction, and for every cause there is an effect, and that whatever I say, think, or do, there is a natural consequence that can be deemed either good or bad depending upon how it makes one feel. Although with a good attitude, even the bad stuff can be pure gold.

Some babies are born healthy, some are born unhealthy, and as someone who knows karma (for sure) and believes strongly in reincarnation, this actually makes very good sense.

The important point here, is that we may see this 'cause and effect' in action, from moment to moment, and instead of blaming some outside influence or occurrence for our hard times, we could look honestly for the real reason and make a conscious effort to learn and move-on. 

I don't wish to sound hard hearted, I have a deep compassion, but this taking of responsibility will actually make the world a better place.

 

So if people get diseases and such because of current or past life karma.

Then don't things like vaccines and medicine completly break that system? Lol

If you are born with something because of past life Karam, yet society now can cure it. Then where is the karma.

It all seems to not makes sense to me when you think about it beyond surface level. 

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