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OverSword

Migrants to be replaced by machines

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OverSword
49 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You have never picked fruit for a living.  That is as skilled as retail, more physical but still skilled.  If you don't have the skill or pick it up quickly you don't last the day. 

And in retail you usually also have to speak english and have the right visa which is probably a no go for the people being discussed here.

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

And in retail you usually also have to speak english and have the right visa which is probably a no go for the people being discussed here.

:lol:  Yes, it helps but I have gone through a Wendy's drive through and ordered in English expecting the be understood and wasn't.  Then I got to yell at the guys manager for putting him on the drive through without teaching him English.  He was find in the kitchen, though.  I have also been waited on by a chinese immigrant who refused to learn english in a chinese restaraunt in Dallas.  The owner only hired his relatives.

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Desertrat56
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And in retail you usually also have to speak english and have the right visa which is probably a no go for the people being discussed here.

Again, you assume all migrant workers are non citizens without visas.  Farmers get in big trouble for hiring migrants that have no visa or citizenship.

And I have been in burger kings and mcdonalds with kids behind the register that had no skill to even do that job. I don't get what you are saying, it's as if you live in a tower or something.

Edited by Desertrat56

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rashore
5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And in retail you usually also have to speak english and have the right visa which is probably a no go for the people being discussed here.

Correct. The H-2A visa is for guest workers specifically in the agricultural sector. To utilize a guest worker for retail that person would need a H-2B visa, which is for temporary non-agricultural jobs.

There's a ton of different visas, but the H-2A and H-2B are the ones that would be applicable here: https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-nonimmigrant-workers

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OverSword
11 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Again, you assume all migrant workers are non citizens without visas. 

No I do not.  An agricultural work visa does not allow you to legally do other type of work.  Please note I said "and have the right visa" Before accusing me of such crap.

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, aztek said:

btw construction skills, as far as jobs illegals do, i can train a guy to do what they do in a few days. and the less experience he has the better

So will you write from prison if ICE busts your jobsite and hauls you in?

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DieChecker
10 hours ago, OverSword said:

Link

So watching the local news this morning and this story comes up in which the federal government has mandated that migrant blueberry pickers must be paid a 50% wage increase, bringing them up to 75 cents an hour.  In response the local farmers have decided to possibly cut short the harvest this year and starting next year will use automated pickers instead of people with work visas.

That's economics for you. A farmer will do what is more profitable. If that means hiring a tractor to run the field for two days, rather 40 migrants for ten days, they'll do it. Even leftists bow to fiscal realities when it is their lifestyle on the line.

All less skilled labor is facing a grim future as automation gets cheaper every year.

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Gromdor

Yeah, automation is coming no matter what.  Publicly, employers just need to place blame on a reason to slash jobs just to avoid the negative backlash.  It's the future.

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DieChecker

I watched several berry farms south of here in the countryside tear out all their berry bushes and put in hazelnuts, and often just corn. Not as big a payday, but a lot easier to run.

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RoofGardener

Hmmm... curiously this story is only on the Tri-City Herald website. It doesn't exist anywhere else ? 

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aztek
1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

I watched several berry farms south of here in the countryside tear out all their berry bushes and put in hazelnuts, and often just corn. Not as big a payday, but a lot easier to run.

i heard it is not a good idea to grow same thing over and over, on the same patch of soil,  it has something to do with different plants needing different nutrients from soil. 

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Gromdor
1 hour ago, aztek said:

i heard it is not a good idea to grow same thing over and over, on the same patch of soil,  it has something to do with different plants needing different nutrients from soil. 

It's true.  Crop rotation.  Midwest farmers rotate soy and corn.  Chemical fertilizers help quite a bit but the downside is a lot get washed away down the rivers making that big "dead zone" in the gulf.

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RavenHawk

So now, machines are going to cross illegally?  Will they bring children with them and claim that they are theirs?  Progs will give the machines free health care?

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rashore
52 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

It's true.  Crop rotation.  Midwest farmers rotate soy and corn.  Chemical fertilizers help quite a bit but the downside is a lot get washed away down the rivers making that big "dead zone" in the gulf.

Not only chemical fertilizers, but also lots of manure- lots and lots of cow and pig manure gets sprayed over the fields too :tu: Smells terrible, works great.

Though with the case of fruit bushes or nut trees there isn't so much ability to rotate the crops.

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Tatetopa
On 8/13/2019 at 2:38 AM, DieChecker said:

I watched several berry farms south of here in the countryside tear out all their berry bushes and put in hazelnuts, and often just corn. Not as big a payday, but a lot easier to run.

Yeah, some of the California almond growers having hard times are moving up to Oregon and into filberts too.  I guess it its the kale of nuts, the next big thing.  One of the engineers I worked with is the son and brother of grass seed farmers down by Albany.  They just put in 20 acres of filberts as a trial.  You are right there is a tree shaking machine for harvesting.

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Tatetopa
On 8/13/2019 at 6:43 AM, rashore said:

Though with the case of fruit bushes or nut trees there isn't so much ability to rotate the crops.

I don't think trees tax the soil as heavily as annual grain crops.

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Tatetopa
On 8/13/2019 at 6:20 AM, RavenHawk said:

So now, machines are going to cross illegally?  Will they bring children with them and claim that they are theirs?  Progs will give the machines free health care?

NO.  Think how much money you'll save on walls. 

Nope it will all be good fun until somebody invents a robot or AI that can do  your job for $40k per year.  Working with a few expert systems, I can tell you that  it it a lot easier for an AI to do  thinking tasks than for a robot to do physical jobs, and a lot cheaper.

You might be surprised how well humans can program AI to do what many humans think are uniquely human capabilities and tasks.

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Sir Smoke aLot
On 8/12/2019 at 6:15 PM, Michelle said:

Hand pickers are paid by how much they pick at $0.35 per pound. Most are making about $100 to $150 in a four- to six-hour work day. The average worker picks about 40 to 50 pounds an hour, but the top pickers can pick as much as 80 to 100 pounds per hour. 

http://www.itsmomsense.com/farming-in-focus-june-blueberries/

Machines are overrated :D 100 pounds per hour, that's crazy.

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aztek

a machine will pick  1000lb per hour, but it'll waste 500lb

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
On 8/13/2019 at 2:48 AM, RoofGardener said:

Hmmm... curiously this story is only on the Tri-City Herald website. It doesn't exist anywhere else ? 

Where I first heard this was on the local morning news. If it’s on tv it must be true.

also here:

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&source=hp&ei=VGpVXfbdF9bL0PEP7fKiwAQ&q=berry+pickers+wages+increased+&oq=berry+pickers+wages+increased+&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.3..33i299.5494.25298..29764...1.0..0.419.6208.0j16j11j2j1....2..0....1.......8..35i39j46i39j0j46j46i275j0i10j0i22i30j33i160j33i22i29i30.FgjiiIWZp6E

Edited by OverSword

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RoofGardener
RavenHawk
10 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

NO.  Think how much money you'll save on walls.

You’ll still need walls the keep out the machines.

 

Nope it will all be good fun until somebody invents a robot or AI that can do  your job for $40k per year.  Working with a few expert systems, I can tell you that  it it a lot easier for an AI to do  thinking tasks than for a robot to do physical jobs, and a lot cheaper.

Well, that’s where it is all going.  Robots will be able to replace Man entirely.  The ruling elite probably will love that because then they’d have slaves to support their lifestyle without revolution.  Then they can regulate birth control and indoctrinate the youth into the Party.

 

You might be surprised how well humans can program AI to do what many humans think are uniquely human capabilities and tasks.

That would be another possibility.  Sort of a “Real Steal” premise.  Machines would still need routine maintenance.  Everyone would own avatars to do their daily business needs and you hire out their labor.  Considering human nature, nothing could go wrong there.

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aztek
37 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

 

Well, that’s where it is all going.  Robots will be able to replace Man entirely.  The ruling elite probably will love that because then they’d have slaves to support their lifestyle without revolution.  Then they can regulate birth control and indoctrinate the youth into the Party.

if that happens they can wipe out 99% of population,  just keep some  to design,  built , maintain robots , . no need for the rest of people, they'll have entire planet to themselves,  they can rebuild it completely,  anyway they want.  if i was in their shoes that is exactly what i'd do. 

 

 

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RavenHawk
28 minutes ago, aztek said:

if that happens they can wipe out 99% of population,  just keep some  to design,  built , maintain robots , . no need for the rest of people, they'll have entire planet to themselves,  they can rebuild it completely,  anyway they want.  if i was in their shoes that is exactly what i'd do. 

 

 

Right in line with the Georgia Guidestones.  Now, I can’t say that I am totally against the 10 guidelines but as with everything dealing with total government, who’s going to impose them?  I suspect that it won’t be too long before this utopia falls because the people will have drifted from the Constitution and the lessons from the Bible.  These types always don’t think that human nature applies to them.

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aztek
5 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Right in line with the Georgia Guidestones.  Now, I can’t say that I am totally against the 10 guidelines but as with everything dealing with total government, who’s going to impose them?  I suspect that it won’t be too long before this utopia falls because the people will have drifted from the Constitution and the lessons from the Bible.  These types always don’t think that human nature applies to them.

 

humans are corrupt creatures. always were at any time during human history,  any gvmnt will be corrupt since people in it are,  especially when they taste power, even if it starts with most noble intentions,    that is just sad truth.  we will never be perfect society no matter how many of us left.  all we can do is keep good and bad in balance. 

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