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Rise in retirement age proposed for UK


Eldorado

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1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

That inaccurate unless you are also excluding heart disease , cancer , dementia/Alzheimer's and general accidents 

Evidence please? I have seen figures for childhood deaths, warfare deaths, and preventable deaths being removed and they are indeed in the 90s for the UK.

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17 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Evidence please? I have seen figures for childhood deaths, warfare deaths, and preventable deaths being removed and they are indeed in the 90s for the UK.

I am pretty sure the burden of proof rest with you. Since you are making a very specific claim.

Heart disease and cancer are the top two causes of death ( at least in the states)

The risk for both increases as you age. 

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7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I am pretty sure the burden of proof rest with you. Since you are making a very specific claim.

Heart disease and cancer are the top two causes of death ( at least in the states)

The risk for both increases as you age. 

The average life expectancy is 78-81 for most developed countries, but that includes all causes of death.

If you dont die during childhood, if you dont participate in warfare, and you dont deliberately put your health at risk from cigarettes, drugs, and excessive alcohol, then you will make it into your 90s by the law of averages.

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40 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

The average life expectancy is 78-81 for most developed countries, but that includes all causes of death.

If you dont die during childhood, if you dont participate in warfare, and you dont deliberately put your health at risk from cigarettes, drugs, and excessive alcohol, then you will make it into your 90s by the law of averages.

Unless you get cancer, heart disease, a stroke or dementia.

For example Terry Pratchett died at 66 from dementia. 

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19 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Unless you get cancer, heart disease, a stroke or dementia.

For example Terry Pratchett died at 66 from dementia. 

Which isn't the average life expectancy.

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36 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Which isn't the average life expectancy.

 

To remind you of your point,

You stated that without drug and alcohol abuse, and warfare that the average lifespan would be 90 to 95. 

I am pointing out how the large factors keeping the average down also include other factors like cancer, heart disease, accidents, alzhimers. Things that happen even to people who do not do drugs or drink.

I then gave you an example. You gave me a nonsense reply.

Edited by spartan max2
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22 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

 

To remind you of your point,

You stated that without drug and alcohol abuse, and warfare that the average lifespan would be 90 to 95. 

I am pointing out how the large factors keeping the average down also include other factors like cancer, heart disease, accidents, alzhimers. Things that happen even to people who do not do drugs or drink.

I then gave you an example. You gave me a nonsense reply.

to be fair without drugs and alcohol abuse, warfare, childhood death, cancer, accidents, heart disease ...... we'd be immortal!

The pension system would truely be pickled then.

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14 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

To remind you of your point,

You stated that without drug and alcohol abuse, and warfare that the average lifespan would be 90 to 95. 

I am pointing out how the large factors keeping the average down also include other factors like cancer, heart disease, accidents, alzhimers. Things that happen even to people who do not do drugs or drink.

I then gave you an example. You gave me a nonsense reply.

I know you did, I didnt ignore or oversee your contribution.

In the 20th century quite a lot of people died from child mortality, warfare (WW1 + WW2 being the major contributing factors), alcohol abuse, drug abuse, and smoking. These things skewer the average life expectancy the most.

If you remove child mortality (to find the average lifespan for adults), you ignore warfare (as that has nothing to do with dying from old age), and you remove self-inflicted deaths from poor health style choices you are left with closer to the true average lifespan of an adult in the Western World that takes care of themselves. Women is about 95 and men about 92 (obviously depending on the exact country).

With more cures for cancer, dementia, and better disease treatment all round, it will increase further. Accident prevention we dont have a lot of control over, all we can do is make sure we dont do anything idiotic like flying over the English Channel on a hoverboard. Life expectancy is currently increasing at just over 1% per year so once it gets to 100 no one should die after that point (if the maths holds true).

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9 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yes, those born in 1955 can retire with full benefits at 66, those born in 56 -59 can retire with full benefits at 67 & 1/2, after that it creeps up to 70.  I am getting letters now telling me I should wait to retire until I am 70, though I get full benefits at 67 & 1/2.  I don't know what the 1/2 is about.  I am ready to retire now at 63.  Tired of not having time to do what I want because of needing to work to make ends meet.  My dad retired at age 54 from a company he worked for for 35 years.  He had a nice retirement and a company stock plan.  Now we get 401K if we are "lucky", which fluctuates and will never be a real retirement parachute.

I just retired last November at 69. I thought about another year but I was getting sick of the BS.   You get an additional 8% a year if you delay retirement.    For most people, it is not worth it.  For me it was because my wife is younger and will benefit by the money after I am gone. The 24% extra does help, but SS just about meets expenses.  It takes personal savings to go on trips, replace the carpet, or buy a car.   I have not tapped my 401k yet, but you have to take a minimum of about 4%  the year you turn 70.5.

Stock plans, pensions, and even 401k matches are getting rare in today's working environment.

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1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

I just retired last November at 69. I thought about another year but I was getting sick of the BS.   You get an additional 8% a year if you delay retirement.    For most people, it is not worth it.  For me it was because my wife is younger and will benefit by the money after I am gone. The 24% extra does help, but SS just about meets expenses.  It takes personal savings to go on trips, replace the carpet, or buy a car.   I have not tapped my 401k yet, but you have to take a minimum of about 4%  the year you turn 70.5.

Stock plans, pensions, and even 401k matches are getting rare in today's working environment.

Yeah, I was always told that you need to save enough money so that 4% interest off of it would equal your current yearly pay.  So $1 million if you make $40,000, $2 million if you make $80,000, and $3 million if you make $120,000.  It's hard to save that much and most don't even try.  These public support systems is all they have and even then many are doomed to work till they die.

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This is starting to became a trendy thing in many nations, to increase retirement age. I just hope it won't lead to something like ''workers of the world, unite''.

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The first form of state pension in the UK was introduced for men over the age of 70 in 1908.  At the time, male life expectancy was 48.

When the modern UK state pension was introduced in 1946, for men over 65, life expectancy was 66

Unfortunately, the reality of maths means the longer you live then the more you need to pay into a pension.  Or, you don't receive it so early.

Obviously anyone can retire whenever they like and private pensions can be taken much earlier.

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Lets face it, people enjoy retirement into two weeks in when they become bored because they have run out of things to do.

My intention is to work until I drop dead, and if I have to slow down when older to go part-time. I have no intention of spending my days at home bored because that is the slippery slope downwards.

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14 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I just retired last November at 69. I thought about another year but I was getting sick of the BS.   You get an additional 8% a year if you delay retirement.    For most people, it is not worth it.  For me it was because my wife is younger and will benefit by the money after I am gone. The 24% extra does help, but SS just about meets expenses.  It takes personal savings to go on trips, replace the carpet, or buy a car.   I have not tapped my 401k yet, but you have to take a minimum of about 4%  the year you turn 70.5.

Stock plans, pensions, and even 401k matches are getting rare in today's working environment.

Yes, the company I worked for before was fairly generous in that respect.  They matched up to 7% when they started the 401K, then it eventually went down to 3%, but that is more than the matching at my current company.  The other company also had a stock plan and that is where I saw benefit.  When I quit that job to move home and take care of my mother, I planned on finding a job in the area, but that didn't happen.  There was no penalty for me using my 401k because I was over 55.  I lived on my stocks and 401k.  I wish I had kept the stocks a little longer.  By the time I was out of money I had only 20 or so shares left and it had skyrocketed from 8 $ a share when I started buying it in 2005 to 106$ a share in 2013.  It was so weird though, because I sold my last stock at 106.  and 2 days later the stock dropped to 56 $ a share.  Whew, just feel like I sqeeked by on that one.  Today that stock is 258.37 a share.!!!!!  The corporation has a niche with very little competition, all local, and no national competition at all. 

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6 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Lets face it, people enjoy retirement into two weeks in when they become bored because they have run out of things to do.

My intention is to work until I drop dead, and if I have to slow down when older to go part-time. I have no intention of spending my days at home bored because that is the slippery slope downwards.

LOL!  That is a failing on their part.  I have so many things on my list I will be busy for 10 years and when everything is done I will still have my hobbies.  Everyone should have at least one hobby outside of work.  It is mentally necessary to have a hobby outside of work that is not watching sports or other sedentary mind numbing thing like watching television. 

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1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

LOL!  That is a failing on their part.  I have so many things on my list I will be busy for 10 years and when everything is done I will still have my hobbies.  Everyone should have at least one hobby outside of work.  It is mentally necessary to have a hobby outside of work that is not watching sports or other sedentary mind numbing thing like watching television. 

A generation of OAPs competing in the Fortnite World Cup springs to mind

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