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markdohle

What happens when you Die | Researching NDE

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markdohle
Posted (edited)

 

Edited by markdohle
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Nnicolette

I was hoping for a discussion no time for a 45 min video... I had a NDE once but all i would really conclude is that you do have a self outside of your body that somewhat matches your body. I saw darkness all around and a bright circle of light which i was drawn toward, i could see what had happened to myself also but still had a strong sense of self and stubborness and returned to my body, to the astonishment of the people carrying it away who actually dropped me when i came back because they were so shocked that i was alive, after having no pulse or breathing for a bit. Perception seemed a bit different when i was "seperated" time is not the same there and i was trying to scream but couldnt speak aloud, I'm guessing due to lack of a body. Has anyone here been farther than that? I.e. actually entered the light?

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markdohle

There are a number of good books on the subject.  "Return from Tomorrow" is an older book, it influenced Raymond Moody into studying the NDE, and wrote the book on it, which after over 40 years is still a best seller.
 

https://www.amazon.com/Return-Tomorrow-George-C-Ritchie/dp/080078412X/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=78271536293455&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=return+from+tomorrow&qid=1566142877&s=gateway&sr=8-1

It is an interesting topic, but like everything else, in this world, we are always left guessing.

Peace
Mark

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XenoFish

DMT is released in the brain for one last acid trip, before your brain turns into a pile of organic mush. 

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and then
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

DMT is released in the brain for one last acid trip, before your brain turns into a pile of organic mush. 

Why?  Or, more specifically, why doesn't it happen to the other 80% of people who are in the same near death circumstance?  Black and white thinking may be comforting but it's also intellectually lazy, IMO.  

The most powerful aspect of this phenomenon - whatever it's causation - is that many people who experience them are changed for the better in powerful ways.  That's a positive effect in a world full of negativity.  Its rarity should make it precious rather than making it a punchline.

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XenoFish
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, and then said:

Why?  Or, more specifically, why doesn't it happen to the other 80% of people who are in the same near death circumstance?  Black and white thinking may be comforting but it's also intellectually lazy, IMO.  Like thinking Jesus is going to magical swoop down and save you or god loves you. That sinners are doomed to hell. Black and White on a different canvas. In the case of NDE, it's whatever ideological conditions someone has that plays a part of their hallucinogenic experience.

The most powerful aspect of this phenomenon - whatever it's causation - is that many people who experience them are changed for the better in powerful ways.  That's a positive effect in a world full of negativity.  Its rarity should make it precious rather than making it a punchline.

Death and the realization of one's own mortality can be a strong motivator. The fear of death can become the fear of an imaginary god. 

 

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3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Death and the realization of one's own mortality can be a strong motivator.

I agree.  It can be a VERY powerful motivator because the person has accepted the limitations of their physical body and the brevity of its existence.  If that leads them to enjoy life and not harm others then it can be a positive thing as well.  Neither person, the believer or the one who thinks such belief is nonsense, need to fear death if they truly BELIEVE what they claim to believe.  

The concept of God is thoroughly rejected by many and that is their choice.  Many others of us choose to live in the joyful hope of a continued existence with a profound purpose.  For me, it isn't about fearing the inevitable end for the body which will happen to all at some point, it's about living this life with a purpose beyond my senses and the absolute sel-obsession so many have.  

If Oscar Wilde was right, then I'd say that I'm one of those in the gutter who's looking up at the stars :) 

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Scholar4Truth

I had an NDE when I was younger. The best I could explain it is that I saw darkness, felt loneliness and cold. I also remember shadow figures moving in the distant. I guess mine was kinda of a negative NDE. 

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XenoFish
23 minutes ago, and then said:

Many others of us choose to live in the joyful hope of a continued existence with a profound purpose.

It's the little lies that prepare you for the big lies.

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XenoFish
31 minutes ago, and then said:

For me, it isn't about fearing the inevitable end for the body which will happen to all at some point, it's about living this life with a purpose beyond my senses and the absolute sel-obsession so many have.  

I'm sure suicide bombers and terrorist who are willing to die for their beliefs feel the exact same way.

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Iilaa'mpuul'xem
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

DMT is released in the brain for one last acid trip, before your brain turns into a pile of organic mush. 

Mate, that happened to me years ago..... 

PS... no need to comment or reply. Just move onto the last post. 

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Iilaa'mpuul'xem said:

Mate, that happened to me years ago..... 

PS... no need to comment or reply. Just move onto the last post. 

Your brain turned into mush?

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Jodie.Lynne
1 hour ago, and then said:

is that many people who experience them are changed for the better in powerful ways. 

Is it too much to ask if you have references to back up this statement? Or is it just presumption on your part?

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1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Is it too much to ask if you have references to back up this statement? Or is it just presumption on your part?

I'm not going to spend the time to go into a defense of the numbers on NDEs.  I have no need to convince you or anyone else that I am "right".  Believe as you will.  In a general way, nearly every one of these NDEs that we listen to or read of tell the same story and nearly to a man or woman, they are grateful and have a better outlook on life.  If you feel that to be wrong then that's your choice.

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1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

I'm sure suicide bombers and terrorist who are willing to die for their beliefs feel the exact same way.

I'm sure they do.  So that makes all people of faith, monsters who are willing to kill for their beliefs?  Or is it just me you fear it of?  I'm not going to derail Mark's thread any further.  I didn't intend to do that.  It's just that your primal, overwhelming need to dispel hope of any kind really baffles me.  It's like hating life but refusing to change and wanting everyone else to be forced into your reality.  It's sad and frankly, something I'd expect more from an angry, spiteful 5 year old.

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XenoFish
5 minutes ago, and then said:

I'm sure they do.  So that makes all people of faith, monsters who are willing to kill for their beliefs?  Or is it just me you fear it of?  I'm not going to derail Mark's thread any further.  I didn't intend to do that.  It's just that your primal, overwhelming need to dispel hope of any kind really baffles me.  It's like hating life but refusing to change and wanting everyone else to be forced into your reality.  It's sad and frankly, something I'd expect more from an angry, spiteful 5 year old.

It's more of a refusal to be lied to than hate. I can't pretend god loves me/exist or there is some afterlife. Lying to other's is pretty terrible, lying to yourself is worse. 

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Jodie.Lynne
18 minutes ago, and then said:

I'm not going to spend the time to go into a defense of the numbers on NDEs.

Hostile much? 

I asked you to provide supporting evidence for your claim. And I didn't ask about the "numbers of NDE's", I asked you to back up your statement 

Quote

is that many people who experience them are changed for the better in powerful ways. 

How so? Did they miraculously become healed of an incurable illness? Did they gain the ability to heal others with a touch? Did they go on to create anything that benefits mankind? Did they all become preachers of gods word? 

 

I am amazed that people can just toss out blanket statements about a thing, and not expect it to be challenged. I'm not asking you to prove anything, just asking for documentation.

If I made a statement that "90% of all serial killers are Christians", would you just accept it as a fact? Or would you ask me to verify my statement?

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docyabut2
Posted (edited)

Remembered reading all those books on NDE,S  the only thing that gets me ,when my husband  before he died ,he was awake in seeing many people around him. is it just illusions?

Edited by docyabut2
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Jodie.Lynne
29 minutes ago, and then said:

So that makes all people of faith, monsters who are willing to kill for their beliefs?

No, but it does allow the monsters to operate under cover of "doing gods will".

I AM NOT saying all believers are murderers or monsters, so please don't twist my words.  But, when someone can commit an act of murder, or inflict injustice, on another, and point to a holy book as their justification, it should make you examine what is in that book that allowed them to think that way.

 

And no, you don't get to hand wave it away by saying they aren't true _______ (fill in the religion/occupation/nationality/gender/skin colour).  That's like saying that the members of the WBC aren't "true Christians", because they don't believe what you do. If you are going to go that route, then there are no 'true' Christians, because the innumerous Christian sects all have differing opinions.

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XenoFish
9 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

is it just illusions?

Yes.

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Jodie.Lynne
10 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Remembered reading all those books on NDE,S  the only thing that gets me ,when my husband  before he died ,he was awake in seeing many people around him. is it just illusions?

Or perhaps memories of those that went before?

Perhaps, when one believes strongly enough, in something like an afterlife, the subconscious brings up old memories?

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)

I did watch some of the video.

I will say from many stories there seems to be real world knowledge that shouldn't have been known normally while in the out of body state supposedly viewing from above. Any physical only explanation for all the stories I have heard by now would require quite a stretch out of desperation to save the materialist worldview.

Veridical NDEs

Example 1:   An elderly woman had been blind since childhood. But, during her NDE, the woman had regained her sight and she was able to accurately describe the instruments and techniques used during the resuscitation her body. After the woman was revived, she reported the details to her doctor. She was able to tell her doctor who came in and out, what they said, what they wore, what they did, all of which was true.

Edited by papageorge1
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Habitat
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

desperation to save the materialist worldview.

 Why anyone would be alarmed by the idea of an afterlife, is rather interesting, no good asking the team, all they've got are rationalizations for their attitude. Dumb stuff, when it is obviously a case of whatever is, is, and there ain't no point in wishing it away. The irony, of course, is that they accuse those that have faith in an afterlife, of wishful thinking, when they have wishful thinking that the opposite be true.

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papageorge1
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

 Why anyone would be alarmed by the idea of an afterlife, is rather interesting, no good asking the team, all they've got are rationalizations for their attitude. Dumb stuff, when it is obviously a case of whatever is, is, and there ain't no point in wishing it away. The irony, of course, is that they accuse those that have faith in an afterlife, of wishful thinking, when they have wishful thinking that the opposite be true.

I think by now their ego is at stake with a so-called scientific mindset lauding over the weak, superstitious backwards religious thinking folks that believe in things like paranormal phenomena, ghosts and life after death. 

And when those 'believers' claim more than 'faith' but 'evidence' the egos fire up.

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Jodie.Lynne
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

I think by now their ego is at stake with a so-called scientific mindset lauding over the weak, superstitious backwards religious thinking folks

If you agree with that idiot, you are no better than he.

Personally, as I've stated many, many times, I see no evidence for an afterlife, nor for some supreme being, so I reserve my belief in such things until sufficient evidence is presented to me.

 

Do weird, unexplained phenomena happen? Yes, they do, and I have no explanation for them. BUT, when someone says "This weird thing occurred, I have no explanation, therefore _____ ( god, ghosts, aliens, fairies, Elvis) did it", then you are stating that you have an EXPLANATION for that which you claim is UNEXPLAINED.

 

Did the blind woman in your example actually see what she claims? I haven't a clue. Could she have extrapolated the data from sensory data she received subconsciously? That is a possibility, is it not? Ya know, recognizing voice patterns, footsteps, etc. But neither me or you were present, therefore, we must rely on second hand anecdotal information to form a conclusion.

Your issue @papageorge1 is that you accept as fact, any outré claim made. While I hold judgement in reserve until further data is obtained. So whose ego is on the line?

 

Quote

And when those 'believers' claim more than 'faith' but 'evidence' the egos fire up.

Then present the evidence. NOT anecdotal tales, but hard evidence to support your claims and assertions.

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