Are near-death experiences merely illusions ?

[Freez1]

It’s nothing we can prove or disapprove on. But I’ve got a strong idea the difference between conscious and unconscious may be well misunderstood by people. It’s all connected in a way that even envelopes time and space. We are more than anything all connected to each other and everything in the universe. Believe that or not it’s my honest opinion on the subject. NDE is the unconscious mind tapping into the next stage of it all briefly. The fact some remember it and some don’t is the most unexplained part to me. I guess it depends on you’re true purpose here and how you live this life that makes the difference. But I could wrong who knows but it’s what I feel.

[XenoFish]

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.01424/full

https://scitechdaily.com/dmt-creates-vivid-waking-dream-state-in-the-brain-its-like-dreaming-but-with-your-eyes-open/amp/

Good chance that NDE's are just a head trip.

[Kazahel]

On 8/22/2019 at 5:30 PM, XenoFish said:

And? Wouldn't it be reasonably to think that a memory would have formed as the brain is shutting down, and being brought back would simply "reboot" the brain? Like turning off a computer. Unless there is brain damage of course. 

There was a thread years ago about this with some scientific study/paper but I can't find it. I debated this with Seeker_79 (White Crane Feather I think his name changed to). From memory the argument was about how can these experiences form in the brain when there was no blood pressure during cardiac arrest(something like that). But in the end(as even the study said when you actually read it)you can't tell if the experience is created during the last moments of the brain shutting down or as it restarts. So being technically dead doesn't prove anything.

[XenoFish]

2 hours ago, Kazahel said:

There was a thread years ago about this with some scientific study/paper but I can't find it. I debated this with Seeker_79 (White Crane Feather I think his name changed to). From memory the argument was about how can these experiences form in the brain when there was no blood pressure during cardiac arrest(something like that). But in the end(as even the study said when you actually read it)you can't tell if the experience is created during the last moments of the brain shutting down or as it restarts. So being technically dead doesn't prove anything.

I think they found faint quantities of DMT in the brain. Which is suspected in dream formation. It is naturally occurring. Of course this kind of begs the question of how much of reality is real, what is real. Could it all be a hallucination (waking life) or just a very lucid dream.

[lightly]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

I think they found faint quantities of DMT in the brain. Which is suspected in dream formation. It is naturally occurring. Of course this kind of begs the question of how much of reality is real, what is real. Could it all be a hallucination (waking life) or just a very lucid dream.

It's an interesting thought.. But if this life is a dream...where are we, as we dream it?   Some sort of non-physical state or realm?   Or physically sleeping somewhere else?   ??

  It's a mind blowing thought really... If ALL of ' this' is a dream...there might be only ONE dreamer.?      ME !?!?!?   It must be me, or I wouldn't be aware of the dream ! ?   .      Or, If there is more than one dreamer, is everyone reading this  having the same dream ???   Word for word?      I dunno, the real universe might be easier to understand than a dreamed one? 

[LightAngel]

On 8/21/2019 at 1:54 AM, Habitat said:

I have all the proof I need, that the "beyond" is real, and a hundred-fold. Otherwise you would not see me here. I am not easy to convince. Were it otherwise, I would be firmly in the "I don't know" camp, and not bother discussing it further. I would not be endlessly trotting out negative opinions on the subject, something that people don't do, unless there is an acceptance at some level, that there is something important at stake. But they are having trouble disentangling what that "something" is, from the propaganda they were fed at an impressionable age. The best way to do that, is just admit the obvious truth, that they really don't know the status of it. The rest will take care of itself. But if they think they can safely judge, on the information available, what the real situation may be, there is no relief in prospect. You won't find the "killer" evidence, but it may find you, though I doubt it ever will, if you fancy yourself as a fit judge, without that evidence.

 

Here you hit the nail on the head! 

It's a pleasure reading your thoughts.

 

[+and-then]

On 6/17/2021 at 8:29 PM, psyche101 said:

It adds up just fine.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200708105935.htm

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.msn.com/en-in/health/medical/when-you-die-you-know-youre-dead-because-your-brain-still-works-and-you-could-even-hear-your-death-announced/amp/ar-AAtKt7o

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20181125/Human-brain-may-stay-active-for-hours-after-death.aspx

Only the third article mentions flat lined brain activity as measured by EEG.  The other two have an unidentified threshold determining "death".

"He explained that the thinking region of the brain or the cerebral cortex slows down and flat lines but the brain cells are still active. When CPR is given the heart is started again and so does the brain function. He said, “If you manage to restart the heart, which is what CPR attempts to do, you'll gradually start to get the brain functioning again." 

I'm puzzled with how he can make this statement without explaining how he measured the "activity" of those brain cells during a flatlined EEG.  An EEG is an extremely sensitive piece of hardware.  I don't dispute that what he claims COULD be accurate.  I just don't see his claim as sufficient to remove all doubt of the claims of others.

NDEs have been described for millennia and are very consistent in those descriptions.  Whether they are the result of purely physiological events or may be an actual glimpse of what exists at death, has not been proven sufficiently to make a dogmatic statement, IMO.  This source also seems to ignore the evidence that many of these claims leave reports of visual and aural perceptions that could NOT be possible based on current science.  A patient who is in a surgical suite and unconscious though fully alive, has no way to know what kinds of things are being said outside that room, with several walls separating them from where the discussions, music, other sound sources are located.  Add to that the reports of verified details that could simply not be known about items on different floors of the hospital, including ledges outside the building, and it makes it clear to an open mind that dogmatic claims of NDEs being purely natural, explained phenomena, simply cannot be supported by evidence.

[psyche101]

On 7/4/2021 at 1:21 PM, and then said:

Only the third article mentions flat lined brain activity as measured by EEG.  The other two have an unidentified threshold determining "death".

"He explained that the thinking region of the brain or the cerebral cortex slows down and flat lines but the brain cells are still active. When CPR is given the heart is started again and so does the brain function. He said, “If you manage to restart the heart, which is what CPR attempts to do, you'll gradually start to get the brain functioning again." 

I'm puzzled with how he can make this statement without explaining how he measured the "activity" of those brain cells during a flatlined EEG.  An EEG is an extremely sensitive piece of hardware.  I don't dispute that what he claims COULD be accurate.  I just don't see his claim as sufficient to remove all doubt of the claims of others.

NDEs have been described for millennia and are very consistent in those descriptions.  Whether they are the result of purely physiological events or may be an actual glimpse of what exists at death, has not been proven sufficiently to make a dogmatic statement, IMO.  This source also seems to ignore the evidence that many of these claims leave reports of visual and aural perceptions that could NOT be possible based on current science.  A patient who is in a surgical suite and unconscious though fully alive, has no way to know what kinds of things are being said outside that room, with several walls separating them from where the discussions, music, other sound sources are located.  Add to that the reports of verified details that could simply not be known about items on different floors of the hospital, including ledges outside the building, and it makes it clear to an open mind that dogmatic claims of NDEs being purely natural, explained phenomena, simply cannot be supported by evidence.

Of course they can. Senses can record without the brain processing them, which offered the feeling of weightlessness. The floating sensation. It would be like that if you put your brain on a hard drive too. That's because the brain isn't recording feeling for nerve endings.

It's in internal shutdown mode. The brain may take several hours to completely shut down. That's what's being studied by the actual NDE professionals like Sam Parnia. Not a completely failed idea of duality, or the human idea of an afterlife.

Commonality in NDEs should be expected. Religious indoctrination tells people all their life that they are being judged so it's little wonder the brain double checks itself at the end. A revision of you will. Not to mention the NDE / afterlife has gained popularity in the fictional market, so it's bound to capture imagination. 

Yes they can be explained by natural phenomena. There's nothing to actually suggest otherwise. Physics refutes the afterlife idea. It simply doesn't exist. It's a purely human concept. 

[psyche101]