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Are near-death experiences merely illusions ?


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2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Man, Xeno, seriously you need a new hobby when you expose that kind of bitterness to some interesting evidence. 

What evidence? All I see are nonsense stories. That prove absolutely nothing. And they never will. 

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Just now, XenoFish said:

What evidence? All I see are nonsense stories. That prove absolutely nothing. And they never will. 

Why are they judged 'nonsense'?

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4 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Why are they judged 'nonsense'?

Because they prove nothing. Absolutely nothing. The only thing it does show is that the brain short circuits. Some people are so desperate to believe in the after life that they'll latch on to anything that confirms their beliefs. 

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5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Because they prove nothing. Absolutely nothing. 

Because they are not absolute 'proof' they're nonsense. Is that the answer I'm being given? If so, I doesn't make sense.

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

 The only thing it does show is that the brain short circuits. 

These stories seemed to show the opposite = Enhanced functioning of the individual.

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Dude put the coin up there himself and the lady threw the shoe up there herself. And/or an accomplice. Other dude's brain was still "recording" when his teeth were removed.

All plausible scenarios. 

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6 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Are you sure?  Is psychology more than a fringe science yet?  I have not seen it.

Humans have always employed their knowledge of human psychology, to predict the behavior of others, and not so much by referring to textbooks, not much has changed.

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6 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Because they prove nothing. Absolutely nothing. The only thing it does show is that the brain short circuits. Some people are so desperate to believe in the after life that they'll latch on to anything that confirms their beliefs. 

LOL, thank goodness you aren't desperate to disbelieve anything, where would you be then ! :w00t:

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Some stories are fascinating and believable, too bad that they are just stories.

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It never fails to amuse me, how many people on this site, who imagine themselves science-based thinkers, leap to conclusions that are not supported by science. 

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Just now, Habitat said:

It never fails to amuse me, how many people on this site, who imagine themselves science-based thinkers, leap to conclusions that are not supported by science. 

It never fails to amuse me how you think your kook based nonsense is worth more than a laugh and that you have the audacity to comment on science when you are an enemy of reason. Shouldn't you be reading a ouija board in a cloud of incense somewhere muttering a mystic mantra? Or rapping one out on a wall to the other side? 

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11 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Strongest as in out of all the "evidence" people use for an afterlife (ghost, intelligent design, etc). NDEs are the closest to valid out of the list.

Physics is stronger evidence against the afterlife idea. 

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27 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

It never fails to amuse me how you think your kook based nonsense is worth more than a laugh and that you have the audacity to comment on science when you are an enemy of reason. Shouldn't you be reading a ouija board in a cloud of incense somewhere muttering a mystic mantra? Or rapping one out on a wall to the other side? 

You are a serial fact-fudger, not a man of science, not a man of truth, a guesser, and a bad guesser at that ! All hail true science, not those that try to fudge facts under the guise of science, but only want to reinforce and promote a prejudice. Shameful !

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Are near death experiences merely illusion?

I'd argue many are, but some are not. The stories of the coin and shoe, if true, are strong evidence of weirdness going on. As OnLooker said it could have been set up, so there is doubt. But, are even these two stories real? I've not heard them before....

Science has shown that the brain can keep ticking for some time after cardeo-respatory death. So there could be electrical tricks going on.

I'd personally like to believe that seeing such is part of what goes on to make passing on to the eternal to be easier. Our bodies are set to work the way they do and our brain/mind also, so it is likely the NDE serves a purpose. 

Do people leave their bodies? I cant say... Science would say no, but lots of myth, religions, individual experiences and belief systems would suggest yes.

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There's no point in living if there is an after life. Just think about that. 

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Just now, XenoFish said:

There's no point in living if there is an after life. Just think about that. 

The answer to that is,  "WE JUST DONT KNOW".

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From Aeneid VI, in the Underworld Anchises declares to his son Aeneas this discovered truth:

" “Know first that heaven and earth and ocean's plain,
The moon's bright orb, and stars of Titan birth
Are nourished by one Life; one primal Mind,
Immingled with the vast and general frame,
Fills every part and stirs the mighty whole".

 

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0054%3Abook%3D6

 

The gist of it is that an intangible force that is not subject to corruption (death) is part of everything in the universe and that it endures whilst the body decays.

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12 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

THIS ^^^

We have no way of knowing how much the subject assumed, extrapolated, intuited, or just plain guessed about the things going on around them. And just because one is dying, or "dead" briefly, doesn't mean that the senses aren't functioning to some extent.

And I contend that if someone believes something, with every fibre of their being, devoutly in an afterlife of some sort, then their subconscious will supply the expected imagery and words that one is "certain" they will see and hear.

The opposite is true too, its wrong to dismiss effects simply because its hard to quantitatively investigate them.

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1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

There's no point in living if there is an after life. Just think about that. 

Unless how you live here determines what happens there...

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9 minutes ago, Ell said:

From Aeneid VI, in the Underworld Anchises declares to his son Aeneas this discovered truth:

" “Know first that heaven and earth and ocean's plain,
The moon's bright orb, and stars of Titan birth
Are nourished by one Life; one primal Mind,
Immingled with the vast and general frame,
Fills every part and stirs the mighty whole".

 

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0054%3Abook%3D6

 

The gist of it is that an intangible force that is not subject to corruption (death) is part of everything in the universe and that it endures whilst the body decays.

Gnosticism?

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7 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Unless how you live here determines what happens there...

Who's to say it does.

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11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Who's to say it does.

5000 years of traditions? 

The Hindus claim even further back.

If you are going to believe in an afterlife, then thousands of years of advise on how to get there would be stupid to ignore.

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18 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

5000 years of traditions? 

The Hindus claim even further back.

If you are going to believe in an afterlife, then thousands of years of advise on how to get there would be stupid to ignore.

What if it's bad advice.

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11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What if it's bad advice.

What if? Life is temporary... 

You're either in a world were it doesn't matter. Or you're in a world were it does. Either all you did is waste some time... that you doubtless would have just wasted on something else. Or you secured eternity for yourself somewhere nice.

I personally find the lost time to be not terribly important. 

I probably could catch a few more Pokemon. Or build a slightly better minecraft castle... 

Important things, like teaching my 8 year old to ride a bike without training wheels (which he accomplished today) and visiting relatives for a wedding (Last Saturday) still are happening, so I dont see the harm.

I just spent 2 hours on UM. Which is less then a traditional church service? Time wasted?

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Everything is a waste of time. Even the stuff we deem 'important'. 

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