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Are near-death experiences merely illusions ?


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3 hours ago, Habitat said:

You are a serial fact-fudger, not a man of science, not a man of truth, a guesser, and a bad guesser at that ! All hail true science, not those that try to fudge facts under the guise of science, but only want to reinforce and promote a prejudice. Shameful !

You don't have the credibility to invoke science. You are an enemy of reason. 

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1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

5000 years of traditions? 

The Hindus claim even further back.

If you are going to believe in an afterlife, then thousands of years of advise on how to get there would be stupid to ignore.

About 9 % of successful resuscitations report a type of NDE. That's a pretty small number to consider before taking into account the exaggerations and incorrect reports. The majority of the reports also seem to come from cardiac arrest patients, whereas other cardiac related instances have a very small result. Stress seems to okay a factor, but there's no real research into the field. It doesn't appear to be restricted to any single part of the brain, but the AWARE project has indicated that parts of the brain do take a long time to die, well, longer than we thought, to a point where our brains might be capable of recording ones own death announcement. 

I don't see much point in the BS being palmed of as research when really, it's a bunch of anecdotes 

That presents a false front of actual research being done on the field when it's just some interesting anecdotes. I don't think that's professional or ethical. If these people really are interested in opening doors, they should be doing more than gathering anecdotes. 

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13 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Because they are not absolute 'proof' they're nonsense. Is that the answer I'm being given? If so, I doesn't make sense.

They are anecdotes. The plural of anecdote is not data. 

Who verified these claims? How many times have these claims been subject to Chinese whispers? Why should they be deemed accurate for a start. 

Quote

These stories seemed to show the opposite = Enhanced functioning of the individual.

Why stop there at afterlife or separation? What about enhanced senses as each one drops off? Or other wild ideas like time impressions? Mind reading? We could make stuff up forever. Because you have a favourite doesn't make it viable. Real research is slowly being done. Patience is also uncovering small insights into the death process. Picking a favourite superstition isn't really helpful at all. 

Edited by psyche101
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8 hours ago, Habitat said:

Humans have always employed their knowledge of human psychology, to predict the behavior of others, and not so much by referring to textbooks, not much has changed.

Except that a lot of young people who have never gotten along with others very well, get a psychology degree with the hope that it will give them tools to manipulate others, or to self diagnose, some say they get a psychology degree to "help others", same as people who become cops, but I see very little help actually happening.  At least until it cognitive therapies became acceptable, though still they are on the fringe because you can't keep patients coming back forever like the other "therapies".  

And psychiatrists are supposed to know about drugs because they have to have a MD to be a psychiatrist but they are worse than regular doctors for prescribing crap just to "see if it will help", drugs that have dire side effects worse than what ever they are trying to "help".  I don't see psychology as a science, since most experiments involve shocking people or drugs. 

(I sometimes forget, no allopatih doctor know much about drugs, you have to ask a pharmacist if you are not sure about something you have been prescribed.)

Edited by Desertrat56
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14 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Why are they judged 'nonsense'?

Because, in his reality there is not and never will be anything that he does not understand better than the rest of us.  I think maybe it's some kind of defense mechanism for a life he hates sublimely.  It's quite amazing to see the effort he puts into it.  If he tried half as hard to be happy, he'd have an amazing life :) 

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7 minutes ago, and then said:

Because, in his reality there is not and never will be anything that he does not understand better than the rest of us.  I think maybe it's some kind of defense mechanism for a life he hates sublimely.  It's quite amazing to see the effort he puts into it.  If he tried half as hard to be happy, he'd have an amazing life :) 

Opinion duly noted and discarded. 

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2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

They are anecdotes. The plural of anecdote is not data. 

 

To me, a body of anecdotes considered for quantity, quality and consistency carries weight. You can wave them off if you like but to me that is not logical.

2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

 

Who verified these claims? How many times have these claims been subject to Chinese whispers? Why should they be deemed accurate for a start. 

 

Even if verified with personal interviews, then you can ask 'who verified the verifier'. That is why I look for a body of cases. In my readings over the decades it is almost a cliché to hear about how people knew events in the trauma setting that we wouldn't have expected them to know. It is just that these stories in the OP are carrying it one step further to include facts nobody in the trauma area would have even known.

Certainly any one story can be affected by Chinese whispers and that is why I consider the whole body of anecdotes as my interest here is the question 'did these people know things we would not expect them to know normally?'. I have to believe 'yes' and at about 99% by now.

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Anecdotal evidence means nothing. 

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10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Anecdotal evidence means nothing. 

Opinion duly noted and challenged.

A body of anecdotal evidence fairly considered can affect my view of reality. We are not doing hard science here, but rather forming our views on reality.

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5 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Opinion duly noted and challenged.

A body of anecdotal evidence fairly considered can affect my view of reality. We are not doing hard science here, but rather forming our views on reality.

The reality of it is, once you're dead you are dead. 

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The key word is near death. Not dead. So the mostly likely explanation for this is the subconscious picking up information, neurochemicals being released that induced a kind of hypnagogic/hypnopompic state as fight or flight kicks in. Couple this with the memetic nature of sharing NDE and OBE stories, along with religious/spiritual beliefs. It's not the difficult to see it as nothing more than just a story. 

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6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The reality of it is, once you're dead you are dead. 

Comes across as the angry ranting of an unhappy person that doesn't like other people having more positive and honestly held beliefs.

 

 

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Just now, papageorge1 said:

Comes across as the angry ranting of an unhappy person that doesn't like other people having more positive and honestly held beliefs.

 

 

More disappointed that people are so willing too lie to themselves. 

As I said before. No point in being alive if the afterlife is real. This would be just a temporary stop, when you can have eternity. 

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7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The key word is near death. Not dead. So the mostly likely explanation for this is the subconscious picking up information, neurochemicals being released that induced a kind of hypnagogic/hypnopompic state as fight or flight kicks in. Couple this with the memetic nature of sharing NDE and OBE stories, along with religious/spiritual beliefs. It's not the difficult to see it as nothing more than just a story. 

But it ties in with a metaphysical view that we are not just a physical body. And then long after death comes evidence from spirit communication and visitation also supported by anecdotal and now controlled laboratory testing.

Afterlife Evidence

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

More disappointed that people are so willing too lie to themselves. 

As I said before. No point in being alive if the afterlife is real. This would be just a temporary stop, when you can have eternity. 

There's a point in my understanding based on Advaita Vedanta philosophy. We are in the process of expanding through love and compassion into the realization that we are One Consciousness/God/Brahman.

But that takes us far afield from the OP topic.

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4 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

But it ties in with a metaphysical view that we are not just a physical body. And then long after death comes evidence from spirit communication and visitation also supported by anecdotal and now controlled laboratory testing.

Afterlife Evidence

I spent years trying to evoke those I've lost. Nothing. Just nothing. I will never see my grandfather or grandmother again, and my brother didn't reincarnate into someone else. They are gone forever. I invested perhaps too much time, effort, and energy into proof that there is more to this boring pointless mundane existence. There's nothing. Even my own NDE's mean nothing. 

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7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

More disappointed that people are so willing too lie to themselves. 

As I said before. No point in being alive if the afterlife is real. This would be just a temporary stop, when you can have eternity. 

Maybe we are eternal beings and we just don't remember the reason we are experiencing being human on planet earth because remembering would change the whole experience.

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3 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

There's a point in my understanding based on Advaita Vedanta philosophy. We are in the process of expanding through love and compassion into the realization that we are One Consciousness/God/Brahman.

But that takes us far afield from the OP topic.

Love is just a chemical.

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Just now, Desertrat56 said:

Maybe we are eternal beings and we just don't remember the reason we are experiencing being human on planet earth because remembering would change the whole experience.

Maybe we're a barely conscious primate that thinks too much about its own importance. 

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13 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I spent years trying to evoke those I've lost. Nothing. Just nothing. I will never see my grandfather or grandmother again, and my brother didn't reincarnate into someone else. They are gone forever. I invested perhaps too much time, effort, and energy into proof that there is more to this boring pointless mundane existence. There's nothing. Even my own NDE's mean nothing. 

I think we had this discussion before. I think you are putting too much a weight on the experiences of just one person (yourself) when it's a big world out there beyond yourself. And even some of your own experiences could be ambiguous as you have noted.

(I think I mentioned 'the sample size of 'one' error')

Consider the 'LIGHT' again while staying honest to your intellect!!

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13 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Love is just a chemical.

It is certainly more complicated than that but 'oh, well'.

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5 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I think we had this discussion before. I think you are putting too much a weight on the experiences of just one person (yourself) when it's a big world out there beyond yourself. And even some of your own experiences could be ambiguous as you have noted.

(I think I mentioned 'the sample size of 'one' error')

Consider the 'LIGHT' again while staying honest to your intellect!!

Don't kid yourself. If I didn't question my experiences. I'd be a prime target for the skeptic. I just can't allow myself to believe.

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Just now, XenoFish said:

 I just can't allow myself to believe.

Why? Care to elaborate?

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9 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Why? Care to elaborate?

Because I'm not crazy. George I've had the experiences you dream of, but I can't prove a single one. Can't repeat the event either. Seen more "ghost" than probably anyone around here. Had a ton of intuitive and strangely correct predictions as well. Dreams of gods, demons, and angels. But if I give even the slightest inch to those experiences, which still happen. I should be tossed into a padded room. 

I don't talk about because it's just a story without proof. 

Edited by XenoFish
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7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Because I'm not crazy. George I've had the experiences you dream of, but I can't prove a single one. Can't repeat the event either. Seen more "ghost" than probably anyone around here. Had a ton of intuitive and strangely correct predictions as well. Dreams of gods, demons, and angels. But if I give even the slightest inch to those experiences, which still happen. I should be tossed into a padded room. 

I don't talk about because it's just a story without proof. 

Thanks for a reveal.

But, but, we are not living in an Inquisition run by materialists we need to fear???

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