Is cryptozoology a legitimate science?

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Hence, Crypto *can* be science.

If done properly.

But some of the whistleheads I hung with in my Bigfoot hunting days turned it into a "circus". 

[the13bats]

1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

considering how you use,  (ad hominem counter)⁺⁺    set to 2.

I think if you take Meldrum any more than I did and try to make that the topic matter, it is you who is derailing the flow of the thread.
Think about what I actually said. What you have added into the mix is tangential and nothing I care to debate.

I have reached a point where I don't bother with sceptic blogs at all because they are too unreliable. 
Meldrum may not be perfect, I don't know, but it is all irrelevant to the point - which is, Meldrum is a professor of anatomy and anthropology and who also does research into BigFoot. I am sure Meldrum uses his knowledge in anatomy to try and determine if the footprints he has could be made by a real foot made with that bone structure. I think that is good a example to show that BF study or crypto in general, can be science.

That is my point.

the thread is about is cryptozoology a legitamate science, if meldrum is your example that it is then i find that very very weak, you can i hope do better.

you cry everything you disagree with or cant grasp or understand is "ad hominem attacks" it doesnt make it fact just another thing you distort,

The last word is very important to you we all see that, For someone who reached a point they dont bother , you sure cant wait to get in some blustering babbling pokes jabs and made up tripe, i can prove that about you just watch how fast you reply yet again.

 

[ChrLzs]

2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I said nothing wrong, try as you might.

Here, let me point out the WRONG bits.

Quote

I suspect it is in the eye of the beholder.

Correct.

Quote

Jeff Meldrum is a professor of anatomy an anthropology at Idaho State University

Correct.

Quote

and an avid researcher of BigFoot since the 1990's

Correct.

Quote

It's one thing for a brilliant person to believe in BigFoot,

Correct

Quote

it's an altogether different thing to be hired by a University and study BigFoot.

WRONG.  You have, by joining those two things in one sentence, made the clear implication that the University hired him and either endorsed or encouraged his Bigfoot hobby.  That is not true at all - indeed they have taken some pains to ensure that the stuff he does re Bigfoot, especially anything involving money.... is NOT endorsed by the University.

Quote

and So I suppose the folks at ISU think he may be on to something. And they pay his salary.

WRONG.  There is NOTHING to support that the University thinks that way.  And AGAIN you've made the false link and implication that they pay his salary to do Bigfoot work.  They pay his salary, but not for his Bigfoot obsession.  So another lie.  

Quote

Police detectives study clues to solve a crime. Anthropologists also study clues, BigFoot Hunters like Meldrum work with clues and I am sure he would not be  doing it if he knew that BF did not exist. There all in the same game. Study clues. Nothing wrong with that (to me).

Correct, nothing wrong with it at all unless people get suckered, or unless people like you make unsupported and clearly FALSE claims.

Quote

People dismiss Meldrum, ridicule him etc.

Correct.  And correctly.

Quote

but those who do have no proof that BF does *not* exist. Interesting.

No proof that BF doesn't exist, eh?  Gosh you really are into this science stuff...    How many times do you have to hear the quite simple concept of "You cannot prove non-existence" aka "Burden of Proof"...?  Do you honestly still not get that?????  That has to be a deliberate tactic.  Shame on you.

Edited October 3, 2019 by ChrLzs

[Carnoferox]

1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I have reached a point where I don't bother with sceptic blogs at all because they are too unreliable. 
Meldrum may not be perfect, I don't know, but it is all irrelevant to the point - which is, Meldrum is a professor of anatomy and anthropology and who also does research into BigFoot. I am sure Meldrum uses his knowledge in anatomy to try and determine if the footprints he has could be made by a real foot made with that bone structure. I think that is good a example to show that BF study or crypto in general, can be science.

That is my point.

Darren Naish or Charles Paxton would be much better examples of scientists studying cryptozoological subjects. This is because their work involves hard statistical data and even physical specimens, unlike a lot of Meldrum's work.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Carnoferox

[stereologist]

4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

And making an appeal to your sceptic websites has done nothing to contra what I said about him.  All you do is move the goalposts and make it *look like* you are correcting me.

Perhaps you can show me what is wrong with my original text. 

I said nothing wrong, try as you might.

Falsehood: I made an appeal to a "sceptic websites", 

Falsehood: I moved the goalposts

Falsehood: I was correcting you. Well, except your insinuation that he gets paid by a university when it comes to BF.

What I pointed out is that you made an appeal to authority for someone that I pointed out has a long history of being dead wrong when it comes to BF.

You made an appeal to authority and I laid out facts showing that when it comes to BF you can't trust Meldrum.

I used facts and you used an appeal to authority.

I used facts and you used an informal logical fallacy.

If you care to post facts please do.

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by stereologist

[stereologist]

4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

you don't know it either.  If he was "flawed" as you say he is, he would not be a professor of anatomy that he teaches to grad students.

Meldrum has 200 BF footprint castings. Are you telling me you know for a fact they are fake?

go ahead and try. Just be prepared to show your proof for ALL of them.

 

PS: your ad hominem count is now = 1. "ignorance".  Have fun!!

Bad logic.

Being flawed in areas outside of your area of teaching at the university is fine.

Are many of those tracks fake? Yes. I already posted the evidence. I don't need to show they are all fake. All I need to do is show that Meldrum has been wrong about hoaxed prints. That shows he cannot be trusted as an authority on BF footprints.

PS ignorance is not an ad hominem in this case. It is merely a statement of fact.

[stereologist]

3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Nice, Piney but that does not necessarily reflect on anything I said about Meldrum. 

I don't know why people cannot accept what I said at face value. So be it. 

You made an appeal to authority and did not respond to issues of fact such as multiple instances of Meldrum falling for hoaxes.

The facts are what counts and not some position Meldrum holds.

[stereologist]

3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

considering how you use,  (ad hominem counter)⁺⁺    set to 2.

I think if you take Meldrum any more than I did and try to make that the topic matter, it is you who is derailing the flow of the thread.
Think about what I actually said. What you have added into the mix is tangential and nothing I care to debate.

I have reached a point where I don't bother with sceptic blogs at all because they are too unreliable. 
Meldrum may not be perfect, I don't know, but it is all irrelevant to the point - which is, Meldrum is a professor of anatomy and anthropology and who also does research into BigFoot. I am sure Meldrum uses his knowledge in anatomy to try and determine if the footprints he has could be made by a real foot made with that bone structure. I think that is good a example to show that BF study or crypto in general, can be science.

That is my point.

Facts are unreliable? LOL.

So far you have offered nothing of value to the content of this thread. All you have is a rather trite appeal to authority.

The facts from multiple posters show that Meldrum is unreliable and has fallen for numerous hoaxes. It shows his expertise does not apply to the issue of BF.

BF is not what he researches as a professor. It is his hobby. 

What science is there in this hunt for BF? Looking and searching is not science. Another look and search is SETI. Crypto in general does not have a theory. It does not do experiments. It does not offer a method of falsification. It does not make predictions that are tested. They are opened ended endeavors which continue to look and look and look and really are not in any way science.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

2 hours ago, the13bats said:

you sure cant wait to get in some blustering babbling pokes jabs and made up tripe, i can prove that about you just watch how fast you reply yet again.

Again, trying to shift the topic to "Let's bash EoT".  I think I've seen this before.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

2 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Here, let me point out the WRONG bits.

Correct.

Correct.

Correct.

Correct

WRONG.  You have, by joining those two things in one sentence, made the clear implication that the University hired him and either endorsed or encouraged his Bigfoot hobby.  That is not true at all - indeed they have taken some pains to ensure that the stuff he does re Bigfoot, especially anything involving money.... is NOT endorsed by the University.

WRONG.  There is NOTHING to support that the University thinks that way.  And AGAIN you've made the false link and implication that they pay his salary to do Bigfoot work.  They pay his salary, but not for his Bigfoot obsession.  So another lie.  

Correct, nothing wrong with it at all unless people get suckered, or unless people like you make unsupported and clearly FALSE claims.

Correct.  And correctly.

No proof that BF doesn't exist, eh?  Gosh you really are into this science stuff...    How many times do you have to hear the quite simple concept of "You cannot prove non-existence" aka "Burden of Proof"...?  Do you honestly still not get that?????  That has to be a deliberate tactic.  Shame on you.

A deliberate tactic.  hmmph.

I'm just saying it like it is. Stop citing imaginary "tactics" of mine, and stick to the thread topic. 

Is that possible for you?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

2 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

Darren Naish or Charles Paxton would be much better examples of scientists studying cryptozoological subjects. This is because their work involves hard statistical data and even physical specimens, unlike a lot of Meldrum's work.

Then you make the point.

And people can throw Meldrum under the bus all they want, he still is degreed and still uses science to help him solve things concerning a cryptid.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

53 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Falsehood: I made an appeal to a "sceptic websites", 

Falsehood: I moved the goalposts

Falsehood: I was correcting you. Well, except your insinuation that he gets paid by a university when it comes to BF.

What I pointed out is that you made an appeal to authority for someone that I pointed out has a long history of being dead wrong when it comes to BF.

You made an appeal to authority and I laid out facts showing that when it comes to BF you can't trust Meldrum.

I used facts and you used an appeal to authority.

I used facts and you used an informal logical fallacy.

If you care to post facts please do.

 

 

Is it ever possible for you to stick to the thread topic??  These side jaunts into tangential attacks are way off base and full of falsehoods.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

50 minutes ago, stereologist said:

Bad logic.

Being flawed in areas outside of your area of teaching at the university is fine.

Are many of those tracks fake? Yes. I already posted the evidence. I don't need to show they are all fake. All I need to do is show that Meldrum has been wrong about hoaxed prints. That shows he cannot be trusted as an authority on BF footprints.

PS ignorance is not an ad hominem in this case. It is merely a statement of fact.

ad hominem, insult, call it as you wish, it is deliberate, it is inaccurate and once again you have deviated from the thread topic which I suspect is to deliver ad hominem and insult.

 

 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

50 minutes ago, stereologist said:

You made an appeal to authority and did not respond to issues of fact such as multiple instances of Meldrum falling for hoaxes.

The facts are what counts and not some position Meldrum holds.

stop with the non sensical "appeal to authority" and stick to the thread topic.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

53 minutes ago, stereologist said:

You made an appeal to authority and did not respond to issues of fact such as multiple instances of Meldrum falling for hoaxes.

The facts are what counts and not some position Meldrum holds.

Again, you fail to stick to the topic.  Edison had a hundred failures but eventually got it right (light bulb). what you are doing is tainting everything to say that Edison failed!

Stick to the topic. I have NO NEED to talk about Meldrum's being taken in with a fake or two. It's not the point and you know it.
Meldrum has 200 plaster prints. Ok?

In there meantime, all you want to talk about is how you can demean him and slam me. you're OFF topic.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Well, some of you in here are trying hard to make this a "let's bash EoT" thread.

I'll just keep reminding you - stay ON TOPIC.

[stereologist]

19 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

Is it ever possible for you to stick to the thread topic??  These side jaunts into tangential attacks are way off base and full of falsehoods.

Yet another falsehood. I am sticking to the thread topic and also being truthful something you might want to try some day.

The simple fact is that you have posted numerous falsehoods.

You introduced all of these issues.

So please stay on topic and stop posting falsehoods in this thread.

[stereologist]

20 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

ad hominem, insult, call it as you wish, it is deliberate, it is inaccurate and once again you have deviated from the thread topic which I suspect is to deliver ad hominem and insult.

 

 

Please look up the term ad hominem and realize that you don't know the meaning of the term.

Pointing out the use of bad logic is not an ad hominem.

Please stay on topic.

[stereologist]

21 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

stop with the non sensical "appeal to authority" and stick to the thread topic.

Please stay on topic. You can do this if you choose.

[Daughter of the Nine Moons]

Threads been closed due to the usual suspects being unable to have a civil discussion without the usual personal attacks and constant sniping and accusations.