Can DNA solve the mystery of pointy skulls?

[Still Waters 41,048]

Skull modification may have been an extreme way to declare one's identity during the Migration Period (ca. 300-700 A.D.), when so-called "barbarian" groups like the Goths and the Huns were vying for control of territory in Europe after the collapse of the Roman Empire. Could ancient DNA help archaeologists pinpoint what exactly those cultural alliances were?

At a site called Hermanov vinograd in eastern Croatia, archaeologists recently found a peculiar burial pit that contained the remains of three teenage boys. The teens were buried sometime between 415 and 560 A.D.

Two of the boys had artificially deformed skulls, and a DNA analysis, published today in the journal PLOS ONE, has now revealed another curious fact: The three boys buried together all had dramatically different genetic backgrounds.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2019/08/can-dna-solve-mystery-europe-pointy-skulls/

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?

[Piney 49,192]

6 minutes ago, Still Waters said:

Two of the boys had artificially deformed skulls,

There is a genetic disorder found in Central and Western Asia where the skull keeps growing. I think in some cases of ACD it was done so the skull grew upward instead of outward. 

[Piney 49,192]

9 minutes ago, Still Waters said:

Skull modification may have been an extreme way to declare one's identity during the Migration Period (ca. 300-700 A.D.), when so-called "barbarian" groups like the Goths and the Huns were vying for control of territory in Europe after the collapse of the Roman Empire. Could ancient DNA help archaeologists pinpoint what exactly those cultural alliances were?

The "Huns" were a group similar to the Cossacks. People from all over the steppe who banded together rather than be part of a Empire who probably took in outcasts.

Iranian, Germanic and Turkic names were found among them and the group as a whole probably didn't have one primary language. That's why nobody was ever able to identify their ethnic origins.

Another interesting fact about the Huns is they never harmed farmers, herders or raided small villages. They just peacefully interacted with them and went straight after the cities and the wealthy.  

[OverSword 43,523]

I had no idea skull binding was practiced in that part of the world.

[Piney 49,192]

5 hours ago, OverSword said:

I had no idea skull binding was practiced in that part of the world.

It was practiced by all the ethno-linguistic groups on the Eurasian Steppe. Turkic, Mongol, Iranian, Uralic, etc. 

Many PIE speakers. Including ones in Europe also used ceremonial cone shaped hats. I guess for those who couldn't grow "The Head". 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hat

https://en.tengrinews.kz/science/Reconstruction-shows-how-ancient-Scythian-Princess-255482/

[Helen of Annoy 32,293]

18 hours ago, OverSword said:

I had no idea skull binding was practiced in that part of the world.

Neither did we

Kidding. Elongated skulls are rare in Croatia, but they were found in few other places: Vinkovci (Slavonia), Solin (Dalmatia), in a cave in Lika region... 

https://www.24sata.hr/news/tajna-lubanja-duze-od-drugih-a-nitko-ne-zna-kome-pripadaju-358406

 

Germanic woman, from 5th century, in Baranja region, that's close to Osijek where these three were found:  

http://www.glas-slavonije.hr/295176/11/Cuda-s-Jauhova-salasa-Lubanja-Germanke----alien-iz-petog-stoljeca

 

Few more photos of Hermanov vinograd here: 

https://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/ogromno-otkrice-rijesen-misterij-izduzenih-lubanja-iz-osijeka/2110033.aspx

 

The articles are in Croatian, I'm posting them for the photos, but if anyone wants anything translated and the machine translator doesn't work, I'll do it.   

[OverSword 43,523]

8 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Germanic woman, from 5th century, in Baranja region, that's close to Osijek where these three were found:  

http://www.glas-slavonije.hr/295176/11/Cuda-s-Jauhova-salasa-Lubanja-Germanke----alien-iz-petog-stoljeca

Holy smokes!  Look at the size of that skull.  That woman must have been 3 meters tall even without the stretching.

[Helen of Annoy 32,293]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Holy smokes!  Look at the size of that skull.  That woman must have been 3 meters tall even without the stretching.

I think it's just the angle. The skull is closer to the camera than the visitors. 

But it's really elongated. 

If I didn't know where it was found, my first guess would be South America, most likely Peru. I'd think of ancient Egypt too and that egghead pharaoh... Ankhenaten? Anyway, it's interesting, that the same practice developed in such distant parts of the world, that had no way of communicating directly. As far as we know. Some of them thousands of years apart too. Makes me think it's one of those ritualistic practices that come from unfathomably ancient, one source.  

I always like to 'blame' archetypes for similarities between cultures that were not in direct contact, at least not for thousands of years, but I can't find any in my own mental archetype library that would correspond to that. 

[Earl.Of.Trumps 5,437]

2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Holy smokes!  Look at the size of that skull.  That woman must have been 3 meters tall even without the stretching.

Definitely one of the Pointer Sisters 

Edited August 22 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[OverSword 43,523]

16 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I think it's just the angle. The skull is closer to the camera than the visitors. 

But it's really elongated. 

If I didn't know where it was found, my first guess would be South America, most likely Peru. I'd think of ancient Egypt too and that egghead pharaoh... Ankhenaten? Anyway, it's interesting, that the same practice developed in such distant parts of the world, that had no way of communicating directly. As far as we know. Some of them thousands of years apart too. Makes me think it's one of those ritualistic practices that come from unfathomably ancient, one source.  

I always like to 'blame' archetypes for similarities between cultures that were not in direct contact, at least not for thousands of years, but I can't find any in my own mental archetype library that would correspond to that. 

But keep in mind there have been found traces of tobacco and coca in Egyptian mummies.  So maybe we are not aware of where the contact came from but  there was contact between hemispheres in the ancient world.

links

[Piney 49,192]

44 minutes ago, OverSword said:

But keep in mind there have been found traces of tobacco and coca in Egyptian mummies.  So maybe we are not aware of where the contact came from but  there was contact between hemispheres in the ancient world.

links

 It's 19th Century contamination from the mummies being tossed around between people who smoke both in pipes.

The "Columbian Exchange" negates any contact and the Egyptians, Celts or Phoenicians would of already brought the diseases which wiped out over 80 percent of us. 

[Piney 49,192]

3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Germanic woman, from 5th century, in Baranja region, that's close to Osijek where these three were found:  

Her DNA turned out to be Central Asian. I have to dig up the study. 

[Helen of Annoy 32,293]

48 minutes ago, OverSword said:

But keep in mind there have been found traces of tobacco and coca in Egyptian mummies.  So maybe we are not aware of where the contact came from but  there was contact between hemispheres in the ancient world.

links

These were explained away as contamination.

Pyramids everywhere as the most logical way to build.

Elongated skulls as the need to stick out. Literally. 

 

So I will explain these explanations as the need to have banal explanations for everything, even for that, what is not easily explained   

 

Personally, I think people who started with elongating skulls practice had to see such heads, in order to start emulating them. Because people never really come up with anything truly original. Even our wildest fantasies consist of things we know, rearranged. 

Could be that genetic disorder Piney mentioned was the initial inspiration, but it seems like too much trouble for too bizarre result.  

 

Anyway, hopefully some more findings will be... well, found... so maybe some convincing theory about the origin and the actual meaning of the elongating skulls practice might appear.  

[Piney 49,192]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I always like to 'blame' archetypes for similarities between cultures that were not in direct contact, at least not for thousands of years, but I can't find any in my own mental archetype library that would correspond to that. 

Like I said before. It probably had to do with a genetic defect found originally in Siberia. 

[Helen of Annoy 32,293]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

Her DNA turned out to be Central Asian. I have to dig up the study. 

It used to be determined by the burial style. It's this newfangled DNA that's turning our understanding of history upside-down   All right, some things get proven too, but surprises are not surprising at all.  

[Piney 49,192]

1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Could be that genetic disorder Piney mentioned was the initial inspiration, but it seems like too much trouble for too bizarre result.  

 

The little Hun grandgoober up in Rogues Gallery had to wear a helmet to stop his head from growing too long. I know about it from personal experience

[OverSword 43,523]

3 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Elongated skulls as the need to stick out. Literally. 

No.  Elongated skulls to more closely resemble our alien overlords.

[Helen of Annoy 32,293]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Like I said before. It probably had to do with a genetic defect found originally in Siberia. 

Could be. But isn't deforming your kid's skull a little too radical, if there was no spiritual or some other significant reason to do it? 

No offence to Siberians, but I don't see at the moment why would they be so impressive. Eggheaded or not. 

[Piney 49,192]

Just now, OverSword said:

No.  Elongated skulls to more closely resemble our alien overlords.

 ALL HAIL RUPERT AND HIS SHASTA PORTAL OF KILLER VOLES!!!!

 

[Piney 49,192]

Just now, Helen of Annoy said:

Could be. But isn't deforming your kid's skull a little too radical, if there was no spiritual or some other significant reason to do it? 

 

They had no choice. It would grow out instead of up. 

[Helen of Annoy 32,293]

@Piney They who had the disorder had no choice, but those who had no disorder... why would they deform their skulls into totally not practical shape? Just to stick out? The head that sticks out gets cut off, or it's just my part of the world that has such saying? 

Edited August 22 by Helen of Annoy
I'm an idiot, that's the reason for edit. Always.

[Piney 49,192]

8 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

@Piney They who had the disorder had no choice, but those who had no disorder... why would they deform their skulls into totally not practical shape? Just to stick out? The head that sticks out gets cut off, or it's just my part of the world that has such saying? 

Some skulls I saw in XInjiang were wrapped to be slightly pointed but they weren't enlarged. I'm guessing they were the ones that didn't have the disorder. 

[Helen of Annoy 32,293]

10 minutes ago, Piney said:

Some skulls I saw in XInjiang were wrapped to be slightly pointed but they weren't enlarged. I'm guessing they were the ones that didn't have the disorder. 

So the question remains why would people, in seemingly not connected cultures, come up with pretty radical idea to deliberately deform skulls of their children. 

It will turn out, thanks to DNA, that many cultures history - as science - treated as unaware of each other were actually mixing, genetically and culturally, and still the question remains, why was having an elongated skull seen as such wonderful trait? So many other useful traditions got lost and bending your head out of any reasonable shape remained for few thousand years and who knows how many migrations and re-identifying? 

[jmccr8 14,810]

For the most part from what I understand is that it denotes status and in some parts of S.America it identified ststus and location as the type of headbinding varied from region to region.

For Attila the children of conquered elite who swore alliegence had their heads bound so as to show their status to him. I am on my phone now but will look in my fplders for links when I get to the computer.

jmccr8

[Earl.Of.Trumps 5,437]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

Some skulls I saw in XInjiang were wrapped to be slightly pointed but they weren't enlarged. I'm guessing they were the ones that didn't have the disorder. 

"It's not a disorder, it's a feature!"