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Still Waters

Can DNA solve the mystery of pointy skulls?

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Harte

The way I see it, there is no "Mystery of the Pointy Skulls."

So, what's to solve?

Harte

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Harte said:

So, what's to solve?

The question that why some whistle head would think it's a mystery? :unsure2:

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Helen of Annoy
18 hours ago, Harte said:

The way I see it, there is no "Mystery of the Pointy Skulls."

So, what's to solve?

Harte

Well, if you've got fear of using word 'mystery' you can call it 'question'.

And if you think you've got all the questions regarding these particular elongated skulls answered, including the surprising DNA results, please do contact professionals who are not as psychic as you apparently are, so they don't waste their time since you've got it all figured out. Or sucked out of ether. 

In case you haven't noticed, I find your arrogance highly disruptive, uncalled for and generally rude. 

Could you go show your emotional problems in some other thread? 

 

18 hours ago, Piney said:

The question that why some whistle head would think it's a mystery? :unsure2:

It's not a mystery how the skulls were elongated, but it is a mystery (or question, if you prefer) why, what started such bizarre practice and also, why are the findings much more genetically diverse than expected. 

Elongating is not even that important, as the genetic news. The migrations puzzle is very far from properly completed.  

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Piney
1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Elongating is not even that important, as the genetic news. The migrations puzzle is very far from properly completed.  

The Scythians and Sarmatians were bouncing back and forth between Poland and China since the Pre-Roman Iron Age and the Silk Roads were wide open until the disfunctional Children of Abraham took power. 

The Chinese Annuals talk about a interaction with Romans, Greeks and Persians. People moved around more Pre-Dark Ages when it became unsafe. 

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Helen of Annoy
18 minutes ago, Piney said:

The Scythians and Sarmatians were bouncing back and forth between Poland and China since the Pre-Roman Iron Age and the Silk Roads were wide open until the disfunctional Children of Abraham took power. 

The Chinese Annuals talk about a interaction with Romans, Greeks and Persians. People moved around more Pre-Dark Ages when it became unsafe. 

I will suppose then that you do understand the importance of actual physical evidence of early migrations and interactions in form of DNA from the findings in Hermanov vinograd. 

I will also suppose you can agree that it's not particularly strange or stupid to show interest in the actual reasons, yet unknown, why different cultures around the world were so determined to keep deforming skulls of their children.    

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Piney
1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I will also suppose you can agree that it's not particularly strange or stupid to show interest in the actual reasons, yet unknown, why different cultures around the world were so determined to keep deforming skulls of their children.    

I still think it had to do with that defect. We aren't finding whole groups of them. Just the random Asiatic skull here and there.  

Go a few pages back in Rogues Gallery to the picture of me in front of the logging loader and look at the older goober. Even after the helmet he still has a sort of long cone head.  

The rest of the clan are all "round skulled". 

Except for me. I'm "bumpy skulled" from all the dents in my head. :o

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Helen of Annoy
2 hours ago, Piney said:

I still think it had to do with that defect. We aren't finding whole groups of them. Just the random Asiatic skull here and there.  

Go a few pages back in Rogues Gallery to the picture of me in front of the logging loader and look at the older goober. Even after the helmet he still has a sort of long cone head.  

The rest of the clan are all "round skulled". 

Except for me. I'm "bumpy skulled" from all the dents in my head. :o

Speaking of bumpy heads, when someone gets hit in the head, we often humorously say: 'Oh, in the head... good, you could've been hurt if they hit you anywhere else. God forbid in the knee... ' :D 

 

Craniosynostosis is not exclusively Asiatic disorder. It also does not result with elongating only. It can produce all sorts of unique shapes.  

And if you're looking for naturally elongated skulls (so, not just randomly growing out of shape), there's still plenty of spectacularly dolichocephalic people in Europe. 

So, there was more than enough of chances to see long skulls. What is interesting is what made them worth imitating. 

 

I've read a little about elongated skulls and there's theory that since the procedure may result with epilepsy, people were trying to 'invoke' it by deforming the skull. I'm not sure it could apply to every artificially elongated skull. If it was about epilepsy, it would be associated with shaman graves, which it is not. Or we can't tell a shaman grave. Also, looking a little at various elongated findings, some of them look quite natural. Extreme, but still natural. So I would be near getting an idea about a tribe with particularly long skulls, if this recent DNA didn't tell me quite directly it wasn't genetic - at least not in this particular case.   

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Piney
1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I've read a little about elongated skulls and there's theory that since the procedure may result with epilepsy, people were trying to 'invoke' it by deforming the skull. I'm not sure it could apply to every artificially elongated skull. If it was about epilepsy, it would be associated with shaman graves, which it is not. Or we can't tell a shaman grave. Also, looking a little at various elongated findings, some of them look quite natural. Extreme, but still natural. So I would be near getting an idea about a tribe with particularly long skulls, if this recent DNA didn't tell me quite directly it wasn't genetic - at least not in this particular case.   

I don't know where the Shaman-epilepsy connection came from. Shaman are "workers" not "believers" and are trained in psychology.

The European Abrahamic mindset likes to portray them as "primitive" but it takes a great deal of mental power and thought to do what we do. 

It was actually a epilepsy- possession idea that was somehow transferred on Shaman. A Shaman with epilepsy would actually be unproductive. 

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Hanslune
2 hours ago, Piney said:

Except for me. I'm "bumpy skulled" from all the dents in my head. :o

Dang mutant's over running the place......:blush:

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Piney
Just now, Hanslune said:

Dang mutant's over running the place......:blush:

Hey! Your Atlantean buddies let their house pets go feral and start building dirt piles in the shape of their squeaky toys and beating each other up with clubs. Blame them! :o

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Helen of Annoy
6 minutes ago, Piney said:

I don't know where the Shaman-epilepsy connection came from. Shaman are "workers" not "believers" and are trained in psychology.

The European Abrahamic mindset likes to portray them as "primitive" but it takes a great deal of mental power and thought to do what we do. 

It was actually a epilepsy- possession idea that was somehow transferred on Shaman. A Shaman with epilepsy would actually be unproductive. 

You don't have to worry about Abrahamic mindset when you're talking to me :D 

But epilepsy wouldn't render shaman useless. I understand what you're telling me, but the view of the shamanic practice didn't have to be exactly the same in every area and epoch. Just an example: amanita muscaria. No thanks. I'm not sure my ancestors would decline. 

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RabidMongoose
On 8/21/2019 at 8:39 PM, Still Waters said:

Skull modification may have been an extreme way to declare one's identity during the Migration Period (ca. 300-700 A.D.), when so-called "barbarian" groups like the Goths and the Huns were vying for control of territory in Europe after the collapse of the Roman Empire. Could ancient DNA help archaeologists pinpoint what exactly those cultural alliances were?

At a site called Hermanov vinograd in eastern Croatia, archaeologists recently found a peculiar burial pit that contained the remains of three teenage boys. The teens were buried sometime between 415 and 560 A.D.

Two of the boys had artificially deformed skulls, and a DNA analysis, published today in the journal PLOS ONE, has now revealed another curious fact: The three boys buried together all had dramatically different genetic backgrounds.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2019/08/can-dna-solve-mystery-europe-pointy-skulls/

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?

Its a cultural practice originating from before pre-history and no one is quite sure what its about. The current theory is it was a status symbol or done to designate priesthood or something.

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Hanslune
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Hey! Your Atlantean buddies let their house pets go feral and start building dirt piles in the shape of their squeaky toys and beating each other up with clubs. Blame them! :o

I blame the Lemurians and those floozies the Denisovians. Doing all those damn do-it-yourself-DNA parties

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Piney
17 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

But epilepsy wouldn't render shaman useless.

Yes it would. You have to stay in control of the entire situation. Trust me. The secret is not to believe. But to make others believe. 

18 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

but the view of the shamanic practice didn't have to be exactly the same in every area and epoch. Just an example: amanita muscaria. No thanks. I'm not sure my ancestors would decline. 

Pretty close all over Asia and the Americas. I helped with the Northern style Korean and Nivkh revival because it's the exact structure and philosophy as the Algonquian.

The drugs were mainly given to believers in older cultures. It's the Newage Plastic Shaman who take them and distorted the concept of use. 

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Helen of Annoy
24 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

I blame the Lemurians and those floozies the Denisovians. Doing all those damn do-it-yourself-DNA parties

You've got something on topic to say, or you're just practicing for a failed comedian here? 

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Piney
23 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

I blame the Lemurians and those floozies the Denisovians. Doing all those damn do-it-yourself-DNA parties

Damn Denisovans !!!!! That 3rd root on my molars drives me nuts and everybody thinks I have jaundice from that friggin yellow skin! :angry:

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Piney
1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

You've got something on topic to say, or you're just practicing for a failed comedian here? 

Hey! Were having fun here!!!  :yes:

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Helen of Annoy
1 minute ago, Piney said:

Hey! Were having fun here!!!  :yes:

You could derail any other thread, you know. 

 

Oh, well, there was at least that one good page before it turned into usual crap. 

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Piney
1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Oh, well, there was at least that one good page before it turned into usual crap. 

We're still discussing.

Consider it a "aside" conversation. The sarcastic banter in this sub-forum is common. 

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Piney
43 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Its a cultural practice originating from before pre-history and no one is quite sure what its about. The current theory is it was a status symbol or done to designate priesthood or something.

Except the graves found didn't have the priestly paraphernalia in them and they are random. 

@Helen of Annoy  This is the biggest reason I believe it was a medical treatment. Not a status symbol. None of the Xinjiang or Siberian priestesses graves I saw had the long head. Just the high hats and I don't think there is a connection. 

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Helen of Annoy
9 minutes ago, Piney said:

We're still discussing.

Consider it a "aside" conversation. The sarcastic banter in this sub-forum is common. 

It's also tiresome when it's forced by the usual religiously über-sceptical thread-crappers, to be honest.

 

3 minutes ago, Piney said:

Except the graves found didn't have the priestly paraphernalia in them and they are random. 

@Helen of Annoy  This is the biggest reason I believe it was a medical treatment. Not a status symbol. None of the Xinjiang or Siberian priestesses graves I saw had the long head. Just the high hats and I don't think there is a connection. 

Makes certain sense. Only the hats might have been there to imply high heads. Not that we can know.  

I said 'certain' since such radical deforming must have resulted with all sorts of medical phenomena, excruciating headache for starts.  

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RabidMongoose
1 hour ago, Hanslune said:

I blame the Lemurians and those floozies the Denisovians. Doing all those damn do-it-yourself-DNA parties

Maybe when a Neandertal or Denisovan breeds with a Homosapien the offspring have elongated heads? And the cranium modification occurred when their DNA started dropping to such low levels in our genomes that they were no longer born with elongated skulls?

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Piney
32 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

It's also tiresome when it's forced by the usual religiously über-sceptical thread-crappers, to be honest.

He's not "uber-sceptical". Like me he's a experienced shovel jockey who knows which alternative theories are utter crap. 

13 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Maybe when a Neandertal or Denisovan breeds with a Homosapien the offspring have elongated heads? And the cranium modification occurred when their DNA started dropping to such low levels in our genomes that they were no longer born with elongated skulls?

No, They gave us good lungs, yellow skin and tight teeth and the head deformation is not found where there is a high degree of Denisovan DNA.  

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Harte
1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

Its a cultural practice originating from before pre-history and no one is quite sure what its about. The current theory is it was a status symbol or done to designate priesthood or something.

Helen appears to be curious about why people deform themselves. So ask this guy.

top-20-worst-tattoos-worst-tattoos-lilze

What is that all about? How is this any different?

Harte

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Piney
3 minutes ago, Harte said:

Helen appears to be curious about why people deform themselves. So ask this guy.

He has some serious issues. :unsure2:

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