+Hammerclaw Posted August 27, 2019 #126 Share Posted August 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Piney said: Your source for this? A bad memory. I was thinking of someone else. My bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted August 27, 2019 #127 Share Posted August 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: Who was it then... some “barbarian” who was adopted into Roman society and then b*****ed off back to his people and caused havoc for Rome. Hannibal? The Chappy responsible for the Tutenburg Forest massacre? He was British...forgot his name...Caratacus I think.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted August 27, 2019 #128 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said: A bad memory. I was thinking of someone else. My bad. You might be thinking of a Thracian or Dacian King whose name escapes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted August 27, 2019 #129 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Piney said: You might be thinking of a Thracian or Dacian King whose name escapes me. Mine too. I'll dredge it up eventually. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted August 27, 2019 #130 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Arminius, who wiped out three Roman Legions in the Teutoburg Forest, preventing the Romanization of Greater Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminius 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted August 27, 2019 #131 Share Posted August 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Harte said: A lie travels halfway around the world before the truth gets its shoes on. Harte The truth can go around barefooted just as well as a lie. Sometimes the truth can also go around the world of academia many times over as a lie before it is recognized. The truth can be a pretty lie to some, and vice versa. The truth is that truth is much slower than a lie, as you were saying. However, there are still many lies out there, and not enough shoes to go around! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted August 27, 2019 #132 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said: Arminius, who wiped out three Roman Legions in the Teutoburg Forest, preventing the Romanization of Greater Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminius That’s the chap I was thinking of too! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wistman Posted August 27, 2019 #133 Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) Vercingetorix had been a cavalry commander for Julius Caesar before they warred against each other. https://www.ancient.eu/vercingetorix/ Edited August 27, 2019 by The Wistman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted August 27, 2019 #134 Share Posted August 27, 2019 3 hours ago, The Wistman said: Vercingetorix had been a cavalry commander for Julius Caesar before they warred against each other. https://www.ancient.eu/vercingetorix/ Chadwick failed to note that. Thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted August 27, 2019 #135 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I'm just dropping by to add the Plague of Justinian. No, seriously, Mario Novak, bioarchaeologist at Anthropological institute in Zagreb, one of the authors of the study from the OP (who is not qualified to talk about this finding according to one of the "scientific" trolls in this thread), mentions the Plague of Justinian as one of the possible reasons why the three boys with diverse genomes were all suffering from malnutrition and were buried together. That particular disease doesn't leave trace on the bones, an epidemic could have disrupted society to the point of hunger breaking out, burials were frequent and could have been done without following the customs unique for each tribe. And the epidemic was 541-542 CE, while the finding was dated 5th-6th century, so it really could be the Plague of Justinian, or one of its offshots. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted August 27, 2019 #136 Share Posted August 27, 2019 35 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: I'm just dropping by to add the Plague of Justinian. No, seriously, Mario Novak, bioarchaeologist at Anthropological institute in Zagreb, one of the authors of the study from the OP (who is not qualified to talk about this finding according to one of the "scientific" trolls in this thread), mentions the Plague of Justinian as one of the possible reasons why the three boys with diverse genomes were all suffering from malnutrition and were buried together. That particular disease doesn't leave trace on the bones, an epidemic could have disrupted society to the point of hunger breaking out, burials were frequent and could have been done without following the customs unique for each tribe. And the epidemic was 541-542 CE, while the finding was dated 5th-6th century, so it really could be the Plague of Justinian, or one of its offshots. That would fit, except I thought they burnt the plague victims on pyres. I am very probsbly mistaken. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wistman Posted August 27, 2019 #137 Share Posted August 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: That would fit, except I thought they burnt the plague victims on pyres. I am very probsbly mistaken. Quote The plague was so widespread that no one was safe; even the emperor caught the disease, though he did not die. Dead bodies littered the streets of the capital. Justinian ordered troops to assist in the disposal of the dead. Once the graveyards and tombs were filled, burial pits and trenches were dug to handle the overflow. Bodies were disposed of in buildings, dumped into the sea, and placed on boats for burials at sea. And it was not just humans who were affected: animals of all types, including cats and dogs, perished and required proper disposal. https://www.ancient.eu/article/782/justinians-plague-541-542-ce/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted August 27, 2019 #138 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Everything you ever wanted to know about the Ubaid but were afraid to ask: papers from the Ubaid expansion? Cultural meaning, identity and the lead-up to urbanismInternational Workshop held at Grey College, University of Durham, 20–22 April 2006 Nice Ubaid head shaping article starts on page 125. Harte 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted August 27, 2019 #139 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Just now, The Wistman said: https://www.ancient.eu/article/782/justinians-plague-541-542-ce/ I was literally about to cite that very link as rebuttal to my own post 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted August 27, 2019 #140 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Tel Zeidan Ubaidian dig. Pic of one elongated skull here. Harte 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted August 27, 2019 #141 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Thanos provided these links on the Graham Hancock website. Harte 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted August 27, 2019 #142 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, The Wistman said: https://www.ancient.eu/article/782/justinians-plague-541-542-ce/ Correction- Yersinia pestis was first found among the Yamnaya Culture ( the Proto-Indo Europeans) and there could of been a outbreak in Neolithic Europe causing a population drop whose cause has not been determined. The Adronovo later brought it to India and China. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wistman Posted August 27, 2019 #143 Share Posted August 27, 2019 A 2018 article about the Peruvian Collagua people, rivals to the Incas, and their practice of skull shaping (1100 - 1450 CE) : Quote The Collagua were persistently under the threat from the Inca Empire around this time. For the women to be proudly displaying your privilege with strange skulls might have also have been particularly prominent during times of social strives and war, as it acted like a symbol of their collective identity, just like a nation proudly waving a flag. The study also made clear that more and more skulls were being elongated, even among the lower classes, as the pressure from the Inca Empire grew. Perhaps they were looking for a sense of belonging during a time of strife? https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/why-ancient-peruvians-had-elongated-skulls-no-its-not-aliens/ Bob Bowers' article, source for this one, for ScienceNews subscribers only (I'm not) : https://www.sciencenews.org/article/elongated-heads-were-mark-elite-status-ancient-peruvian-society 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos5150 Posted August 28, 2019 #144 Share Posted August 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Harte said: Thanos provided these links on the Graham Hancock website. Harte See post #56 in this thread. Reproduced much of it there. This source, but also good ones on Iran and Ur skulls among others. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted August 28, 2019 #145 Share Posted August 28, 2019 12 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: I was literally about to cite that very link as rebuttal to my own post Finally a show of some minor "induced" modesty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted August 28, 2019 #146 Share Posted August 28, 2019 11 hours ago, The Wistman said: The study also made clear that more and more skulls were being elongated, even among the lower classes, as the pressure from the Inca Empire grew. Perhaps they were looking for a sense of belonging during a time of strife? Or possibly they were trying to achieve the spiritual connection - if the elongating was about that for them, of course. I'm just speculating, obviously, but it does seem logical to me: 'abandoned' by gods, attempting to connect again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wistman Posted August 28, 2019 #147 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said: Or possibly they were trying to achieve the spiritual connection - if the elongating was about that for them, of course. I'm just speculating, obviously, but it does seem logical to me: 'abandoned' by gods, attempting to connect again. Yes, I agree with your suggestion, something an early society might do under mounting stress. If you notice, the writer of that article was speculating too, a little. The source article by Bob Bower (a respected archaeologist) might tell us more, I think, but somebody with a subscription would need to check it out. The other reports we've observed included spiritual aspects to the practices. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted August 28, 2019 #148 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said: Or possibly they were trying to achieve the spiritual connection - if the elongating was about that for them, of course. I'm just speculating, obviously, but it does seem logical to me: 'abandoned' by gods, attempting to connect again. I think it was just "running with the style" which people love to do. How many soldiers were dressing like Hussars when they were the "top shelf" fighters"? Why did the Hussars dress like Sicossaks? The Gauls dressed like Franks when they took over. The British aped the Romans. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted August 28, 2019 #149 Share Posted August 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, Piney said: I think it was just "running with the style" which people love to do. How many soldiers were dressing like Hussars when they were the "top shelf" fighters"? Why did the Hussars dress like Sicossaks? The Gauls dressed like Franks when they took over. The British aped the Romans. Well observed. But when someone's imitating the style, it's rarely purely visual appeal, they usually want to invoke (or project) the traits they associate with certain look. If certain groups were associating higher spiritual potential with the elongated skull, it's was absolutely logical, from the point of their belief, to elongate more skulls in order to have better connections with the gods. Or they simply started losing the structure of the society and anyone was free to imply with shaping their kids' skulls they're more special than the others. It would be so convenient if bones could actually talk. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted August 28, 2019 #150 Share Posted August 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said: It would be so convenient if bones could actually talk. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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